NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2022-23 (pt 3)

[Ryoga Hibiki]

Jokic had 5 double digit scorers to help all season.
Embiid had only 2 until the harden trade.

Lol, this is like the anti-Nash MVP arguments in the mid 00s, someone creating for others should be dismissed because those others scoring means he got help. Now the likes of Bones, Green, Morris or Barton (3 of them are gone) are this incredible offensive help, lol.

"Mom, you made me take all those vitamins for no reason, I was feeling great"
"You idiot, you were feeling great because I was giving you those vitamins!"

[Ryoga Hibiki]

Read on Twitter

This shows how Jokic is holding Cancar back

[Packbuckman]

Team winning matters and the people that put Gordon Hayward as example of winning compared to Giannis lol
With all the injuries the bucks have had and Middleton is still on a minutes restriction on this win streak is incredible. The people that are voting are finally talking about Giannis and the bucks because of this win streak and if it gets in the 20’s at a historic scoring clip it will be harder for anyone but Giannis to win mvp. Only 2 teams have scored more on this long of a win streak both went on to win it all.

[Cubbies2120]

Read on Twitter

This is easily explained by not only Nuggets bench is terrible but also to the way Nuggets are one of the few if not the only team that subs all 5 of their players with bench which highly inflates their on off and general +- numbers.

This shows difference in TS%, not +/- so I don’t get the argument that the nugggets bench sucks. I mean, it does, but that doesn’t explain why his teammates shot better with him than without

For real

Dude didn’t bother to read the chart…

When Jokic is on the court, everyone magically shoots better

When he sits, everyone shoots worse.

Huge coincidence

[ReddoverKobe]

"Team record have always mattered" is another bad, bad argument. We don't know how much it mattered, because the best players in the NBA almost always had the best record, or close to it. But even then, Kareem's example showed that when he won it with a losing record, that no, this is not a rule, it's more like a circumstance that is usually present. Most of the time the best players have the best records, it wasn't the case last year, but it is the case this year. Jokic did not need it last year, and it made his case even stronger this year. None of it would matter if he doesn't come up with arguably the GOAT regular season. He is coming up with up. It's really that simple.

So again, Jokic gets his own special rules. We know, that is why some people are confused by all of this.

[ReddoverKobe]

Y'all hung up on seeding, but seeding is a product also of how your team does WITHOUT you.

The facts:
Jokic played in more wins than the runner ups (Giannis/Embiid).

If you want to give Giannis/Embiid credit for things that happened when they're in street clothes cause they're not as durable as Jokic, that's your choice. Thankfully, the voters realize that to be VALUABLE, you typically have to be on the court.

Giannis averages more points, rebounds and is on another planet when it comes to defense, and has played 5 less games. It's getting insane at this point.

I have a very hard time taking seriously people who think raw ppg with no context is some sort of pivotal argument during MVP discussions, to assess an offensive player. You can't dismiss more complex analytical metrics and than just come with the most stupid number in support. Showoff your X&O knowledge

ppg no longer important. We can check that off as well with team record and defense as to things jokic stans do not think matter

[CobraCommander]

This is easily explained by not only Nuggets bench is terrible but also to the way Nuggets are one of the few if not the only team that subs all 5 of their players with bench which highly inflates their on off and general +- numbers.

This shows difference in TS%, not +/- so I don’t get the argument that the nugggets bench sucks. I mean, it does, but that doesn’t explain why his teammates shot better with him than without

For real

Dude didn’t bother to read the chart…

When Jokic is on the court, everyone magically shoots better

When he sits, everyone shoots worse.

Huge coincidence

It’s almost like this is more evidence that Jokic is making his team mates b e t t e r…

So weird - that the mvp would be a net positive when on the floor with worse players lol

He doesn’t raise the ceiling as much with better players but he also doesn’t hurt them…

But he definitely raises the ceiling of lesser players !

The player ranks on and off go exactly as we all would expect lol

[Sharkboy242]

"Team record have always mattered" is another bad, bad argument. We don't know how much it mattered, because the best players in the NBA almost always had the best record, or close to it. But even then, Kareem's example showed that when he won it with a losing record, that no, this is not a rule, it's more like a circumstance that is usually present. Most of the time the best players have the best records, it wasn't the case last year, but it is the case this year. Jokic did not need it last year, and it made his case even stronger this year. None of it would matter if he doesn't come up with arguably the GOAT regular season. He is coming up with up. It's really that simple.

So again, Jokic gets his own special rules. We know, that is why some people are confused by all of this.

Stats is the most weighted aspect of the MVP race. That's why Jokic has won it the past two times and that's why he's on the top currently.

Read on Twitter

?s=20

Stats don't care about your feelings.

[ReddoverKobe]

"Team record have always mattered" is another bad, bad argument. We don't know how much it mattered, because the best players in the NBA almost always had the best record, or close to it. But even then, Kareem's example showed that when he won it with a losing record, that no, this is not a rule, it's more like a circumstance that is usually present. Most of the time the best players have the best records, it wasn't the case last year, but it is the case this year. Jokic did not need it last year, and it made his case even stronger this year. None of it would matter if he doesn't come up with arguably the GOAT regular season. He is coming up with up. It's really that simple.

So again, Jokic gets his own special rules. We know, that is why some people are confused by all of this.

Stats is the most weighted aspect of the MVP race. That's why Jokic has won it the past two times and that's why he's on the top currently.

Read on Twitter

?s=20

Stats don't care about your feelings.

I just got told stats dont matter, along with defense and winning.

Oh wait, Jokic fans are using the raptor 3rd quarter stats on tuesdays in januaury in night games during a full moon with temps below 47 but above 54.

[Cubbies2120]

Giannis averages more points, rebounds and is on another planet when it comes to defense, and has played 5 less games. It's getting insane at this point.

I have a very hard time taking seriously people who think raw ppg with no context is some sort of pivotal argument during MVP discussions, to assess an offensive player. You can't dismiss more complex analytical metrics and than just come with the most stupid number in support. Showoff your X&O knowledge

ppg no longer important. We can check that off as well with team record and defense as to things jokic stans do not think matter

Curious, what do you think matters more for NBA MVP? I doubt you'll answer, but lets pose the question:

- Games where the MVP candidate played
- Games where the MVP candidate was in a suit on the bench

Team record encompasses both, so having a great team like Giannis has, capable of winning without him...should HELP his candidacy in your opinion?

Let this sink in: The Bucks win at a 58% clip without Giannis this year, good for 8th overall in the entire NBA...and that's while dealing with injuries to Jrue/Khris as well. They are STACKED.

[ReddoverKobe]

I have a very hard time taking seriously people who think raw ppg with no context is some sort of pivotal argument during MVP discussions, to assess an offensive player. You can't dismiss more complex analytical metrics and than just come with the most stupid number in support. Showoff your X&O knowledge

ppg no longer important. We can check that off as well with team record and defense as to things jokic stans do not think matter

Curious, what do you think matters more for NBA MVP? I doubt you'll answer, but lets pose the question:

- Games where the MVP candidate played
- Games where the MVP candidate was in a suit on the bench

Team record encompasses both, so having a great team like Giannis has, capable of winning without him...should HELP his candidacy in your opinion?

Let this sink in: The Bucks win at a 58% clip without Giannis this year, good for 8th overall in the entire NBA...and that's while dealing with injuries to Jrue/Khris as well. They are STACKED.

Now great players are punished for playing with other great players. Adding that to the list.

So far today we have learned stats, winning and defense do not matter and you cant play with other good players.

[Sharkboy242]

So again, Jokic gets his own special rules. We know, that is why some people are confused by all of this.

Stats is the most weighted aspect of the MVP race. That's why Jokic has won it the past two times and that's why he's on the top currently.

Read on Twitter

?s=20

Stats don't care about your feelings.

I just got told stats dont matter, along with defense and winning.

Oh wait, Jokic fans are using the raptor 3rd quarter stats on tuesdays in januaury in night games during a full moon with temps below 47 but above 54.

These numbers apply to every NBA player the same, I'm not really sure what you're talking about, weird straw man.

[_NoMas]

I have a very hard time taking seriously people who think raw ppg with no context is some sort of pivotal argument during MVP discussions, to assess an offensive player. You can't dismiss more complex analytical metrics and than just come with the most stupid number in support. Showoff your X&O knowledge

ppg no longer important. We can check that off as well with team record and defense as to things jokic stans do not think matter

Curious, what do you think matters more for NBA MVP? I doubt you'll answer, but lets pose the question:

- Games where the MVP candidate played
- Games where the MVP candidate was in a suit on the bench

Team record encompasses both, so having a great team like Giannis has, capable of winning without him...should HELP his candidacy in your opinion?

Let this sink in: The Bucks win at a 58% clip without Giannis this year, good for 8th overall in the entire NBA...and that's while dealing with injuries to Jrue/Khris as well. They are STACKED.

Also, any conversation about PPG without also including efficiency is pointless. Of the guys in the top 10 for PER, Giannis true shooting percentage is comfortably the worst… but cool, points innit.

[Cubbies2120]

ppg no longer important. We can check that off as well with team record and defense as to things jokic stans do not think matter

Curious, what do you think matters more for NBA MVP? I doubt you'll answer, but lets pose the question:

- Games where the MVP candidate played
- Games where the MVP candidate was in a suit on the bench

Team record encompasses both, so having a great team like Giannis has, capable of winning without him...should HELP his candidacy in your opinion?

Let this sink in: The Bucks win at a 58% clip without Giannis this year, good for 8th overall in the entire NBA...and that's while dealing with injuries to Jrue/Khris as well. They are STACKED.

Now great players are punished for playing with other great players. Adding that to the list.

So far today we have learned stats, winning and defense do not matter and you cant play with other good players.

Knew you'd ignore the question. I would too if I were you!

[ReddoverKobe]

ppg no longer important. We can check that off as well with team record and defense as to things jokic stans do not think matter

Curious, what do you think matters more for NBA MVP? I doubt you'll answer, but lets pose the question:

- Games where the MVP candidate played
- Games where the MVP candidate was in a suit on the bench

Team record encompasses both, so having a great team like Giannis has, capable of winning without him...should HELP his candidacy in your opinion?

Let this sink in: The Bucks win at a 58% clip without Giannis this year, good for 8th overall in the entire NBA...and that's while dealing with injuries to Jrue/Khris as well. They are STACKED.

Also, any conversation about PPG without also including efficiency is pointless. Of the guys in the top 10 for PER, Giannis true shooting percentage is comfortably the worst… but cool, points innit.

Ah yes, so now you have to reach a certain efficiency, got it. Every post you make proves my original post. Thank you.

[Sharkboy242]

Curious, what do you think matters more for NBA MVP? I doubt you'll answer, but lets pose the question:

- Games where the MVP candidate played
- Games where the MVP candidate was in a suit on the bench

Team record encompasses both, so having a great team like Giannis has, capable of winning without him...should HELP his candidacy in your opinion?

Let this sink in: The Bucks win at a 58% clip without Giannis this year, good for 8th overall in the entire NBA...and that's while dealing with injuries to Jrue/Khris as well. They are STACKED.

Now great players are punished for playing with other great players. Adding that to the list.

So far today we have learned stats, winning and defense do not matter and you cant play with other good players.

Knew you'd ignore the question. I would too if I were you!

Dude has 0 arguments so he's just throwing temper tantrums now

sad

[Wolfgang630]

These discussions are funny to read. Lol

[ReddoverKobe]

Now great players are punished for playing with other great players. Adding that to the list.

So far today we have learned stats, winning and defense do not matter and you cant play with other good players.

Knew you'd ignore the question. I would too if I were you!

Dude has 0 arguments so he's just throwing temper tantrums now

sad

I'm only using the words the Jokic cult is saying. Stats, team record and defense no longer matter and Jokic gets special rules, which was my original point.

[Sharkboy242]

Knew you'd ignore the question. I would too if I were you!

Dude has 0 arguments so he's just throwing temper tantrums now

sad

Im only using the words the Jokic cult is saying. Stats, team record and defense no longer matter and Jokic gets special rules, which was my original point.

Hopefully you understand that posters on the RealGM Forums have 0 influence on the actual MVP vote.

You understand that right?

[Johnny Firpo]

"Team record have always mattered" is another bad, bad argument. We don't know how much it mattered, because the best players in the NBA almost always had the best record, or close to it. But even then, Kareem's example showed that when he won it with a losing record, that no, this is not a rule, it's more like a circumstance that is usually present. Most of the time the best players have the best records, it wasn't the case last year, but it is the case this year. Jokic did not need it last year, and it made his case even stronger this year. None of it would matter if he doesn't come up with arguably the GOAT regular season. He is coming up with up. It's really that simple.

So again, Jokic gets his own special rules. We know, that is why some people are confused by all of this.

Have you read what I just wrote? There was never a rule like this, and Kareem winning it with a 40-42 record showed this already.