KG vs Giannis on defense

[Cavsfansince84]

I'm curious how people would compare them because in some ways they are similar. I don't really watch enough of Giannis to know how to properly rate him defensively so I'd like to hear some input from others in terms of how you think he compares to KG in terms of man to man defense, help, rim protection and so forth. This is also helpful in how I'd see him in an all time sense.

[CharityStripe34]

They are similar in that they're both long and rangy athletes that are some of the best bigs to be able to switch onto guards and hold their own. I'd have to go back and watch some prime KG, but I think Ticket was more "strong safety" whereas Gianni is more "free safety" roaming on help defense.

[Colbinii]

They are similar in that they're both long and rangy athletes that are some of the best bigs to be able to switch onto guards and hold their own. I'd have to go back and watch some prime KG, but I think Ticket was more "strong safety" whereas Gianni is more "free safety" roaming on help defense.

Yeah, it would have been insane to see Garnett paired with a center like Brook Lopez or a defensive guard like Jrue Holiday during his Timberwolves years.

[DCasey91]

I like Giannis here. Slightly more range, KG had a fantastic motor but Giannis has zero breaks just all gas.

A self aware 6”10 Westbrook is a demigod. But both in the modern era is pretty much the most valuable type of defender as they can do it all (inside/out).

[CharityStripe34]

They are similar in that they're both long and rangy athletes that are some of the best bigs to be able to switch onto guards and hold their own. I'd have to go back and watch some prime KG, but I think Ticket was more "strong safety" whereas Gianni is more "free safety" roaming on help defense.

Yeah, it would have been insane to see Garnett paired with a center like Brook Lopez or a defensive guard like Jrue Holiday during his Timberwolves years.

For sure, it also would've helped unlock KG more. Ticket was awesome.

[dygaction]

KG was longer, gave more effort on defense in general, and had more overall defense impact in his era. The effect of defense is lower now as the offense are giving more freedom, court is much wider open as verified by the increase in offense efficiency/volume increase, so not sure KG's impact can be transferred to now.

[rk2023]

I'm curious how people would compare them because in some ways they are similar. I don't really watch enough of Giannis to know how to properly rate him defensively so I'd like to hear some input from others in terms of how you think he compares to KG in terms of man to man defense, help, rim protection and so forth. This is also helpful in how I'd see him in an all time sense.

Man to Man Defense: I give Garnett the edge due to a greater degree of fundamental soundness (more on that later, in more holistic analysis). Due to Garnett having more crisp, steady, consistent movement(s) and pristine positioning, I trust him more on a per poss. average and aggregate sample to defend his man better. I don't think either is quite the caliber of man-to-man post defender as we have seen from the likes of Nate Thurmond and Hakeem (just to put a few names out there), but when it comes to switching more often and directly stifling / frustrating the player in their near vicinity - I prefer Garnett. Another underrated granular detail is Garnett being able to lower his C.O.G. on defensive possessions, giving him some sort of a wing-level presence as a man defender and outside of 0-3 feet from the basket. Part of this gap in Man to Man defense is what I see as a sub-category of defensive "versatility" - which Garnett takes the cake in. Though I've made my stance on it clear implicitly, I would like to add that Giannis is underrated at closing-out with how lengthy he is in his own right and getting around him isn't exactly the easiest thing in the world.

Help Defense/Rim Protection/Off-Ball: This particular attribute, at a higher level itself and before diving into minutiae, is a major catalyst in both the defensive value of Giannis and Garnett. I would certainly need some tracking data (eg. Synergy) to validate anything I put forward, but I feel as if some of the aforementioned points hold true here when assessing help defense in either. When looking at the Bucks and Giannis, a lot of what has made them great is the twin-towers scheme where Brook Lopez serves as the "anchor" in theory due to drop coverage being schemed around him. In more a modern days' sense, there are some gripes with drop coverage's resiliency in a PS setting. How can this be not only alleviated, but completely mitigated to the point of world-class team defense in the RS and Playoffs? Well, enter Giannis. As deployed on court, he is used as the back-line defender where Giannis thrives being able to muck up actions (whether scores or passes) directed towards the basket while being able to less aggressively and directly thwart movement towards him - he further has some value playing a modern day 5 in minutes / games he takes the floor sans Brook Lopez. A lot of Giannis' efficacy playing this role is driven by how rangy he is / how potent his acceleration is - making him a threat to muck up a potential play. While Garnett doesn't strike me as *that* potent in this regard, he makes up (and more) for this gap in ability through very sound positioning and anticipation. I would give Garnett the off-ball / helping edge here again, where versatility leads me to believe so. He's more active and movement-efficient as a roamer to the point where it wouldn't surprise me at all if he mucks up more. I like Giannis just a little more at the basket when it comes to help / rim deterrence due to his strength and speed, but would have to look into this detail further. when thinking about roles, I trust Garnett as a floor-raiser of a defense moreso - while I view Giannis as the ultimate defensive ceiling raiser for his era (being able to take a semi-competent and slightly above average scheme to great levels).

A few other snippets I'll link:

Kevin Garnett Greatest Peaks Analysis:

Spoiler:

Watch on YouTube

Kevin Garnett 2008 Finals Snippets:

Spoiler:

Watch on YouTube

Giannis 2020 Defensive Context and Analysis:

Spoiler:

Watch on YouTube

Giannis Synergy Data in PPP Percentiles (Cited in Video):

Spoiler:

Spot up - 76th
PnR Ball Handler - 53rd
PnR Big Defender - 92nd
Isolation - 99th
Hand Off - 83rd
Post-Up - 76th
Off-Screen - 20th

From anyone, any reinforcement / counter / supporting or contrasting data would be appreciated!

[DCasey91]

The caveat though is I believe Buck’s defence stays relatively stable with Lopez off and Giannis on QBing the defence. (Even before Lopez came too btw).

I just think Giannis’s motor, length and athleticism takes the cake here. Garnett had great length, great athleticism and a great motor now you just add a gear onto Giannis.

I do think Giannis is clearly a better defensive C or starting defensive anchor because he himself can function like that throughout the season without any troubles.

[70sFan]

The caveat though is I believe Buck’s defence stays relatively stable with Lopez off and Giannis on QBing the defence. (Even before Lopez came too btw).

The same thing can be said about Bucks defense with Lopez on and Giannis off though.

[No-more-rings]

Giannis is great on defense, but I wouldn’t put him KG level.

[Cavsfansince84]

The caveat though is I believe Buck’s defence stays relatively stable with Lopez off and Giannis on QBing the defence. (Even before Lopez came too btw).

The same thing can be said about Bucks defense with Lopez on and Giannis off though.

The video posted above(from 2020) seems to say it doesn't so much though maybe it does in other years.

[kendogg]

Giannis is far more athletic than KG. He is far stronger, has far more bounce, and far quicker as well. KG has great timing and court awareness, and I would rate it a bit higher than Giannis, but I don't think it makes up for the immense athletic gap, especially if we are comparing them as Centers and not Forwards, where Garnett's lack of rim protection is more of a detriment. as Forwards, its closer, as Garnett is among the greatest help defenders, but is not the rim protector Giannis is.

KG is vastly overrated by most people on this forum. Being a HOF tier help defender is certainly a great quality, but its really the only elite skill he has. OK he's an elite rebounder as well. But that's it.

[dygaction]

Giannis is far more athletic than KG. He is far stronger, has far more bounce, and far quicker as well. KG has great timing and court awareness, and I would rate it a bit higher than Giannis, but I don't think it makes up for the immense athletic gap, especially if we are comparing them as Centers and not Forwards, where Garnett's lack of rim protection is more of a detriment. as Forwards, its closer, as Garnett is among the greatest help defenders, but is not the rim protector Giannis is.

KG is vastly overrated by most people on this forum. Being a HOF tier help defender is certainly a great quality, but its really the only elite skill he has. OK he's an elite rebounder as well. But that's it.

I don't think Giannis has a clear advantage on rim protection.
Anyways, I think their defense difference is small but still to KG's advantage, but that is hardly enough to swing Giannis' big edge on O.

[DCasey91]

The caveat though is I believe Buck’s defence stays relatively stable with Lopez off and Giannis on QBing the defence. (Even before Lopez came too btw).

The same thing can be said about Bucks defense with Lopez on and Giannis off though.

Yes but I’m saying Giannis was very good before Lopez came. It’s just adds on to both when together

[Cavsfansince84]

Giannis is far more athletic than KG. He is far stronger, has far more bounce, and far quicker as well. KG has great timing and court awareness, and I would rate it a bit higher than Giannis, but I don't think it makes up for the immense athletic gap, especially if we are comparing them as Centers and not Forwards, where Garnett's lack of rim protection is more of a detriment. as Forwards, its closer, as Garnett is among the greatest help defenders, but is not the rim protector Giannis is.

KG is vastly overrated by most people on this forum. Being a HOF tier help defender is certainly a great quality, but its really the only elite skill he has. OK he's an elite rebounder as well. But that's it.

My impression is that Giannis is more atheltic overall but that KG had quicker feet/hands. So within 5-6 ft I think prime KG reacted slightly faster but if you ask who is quicker past 6 ft its probably Giannis. I'd also like to hear more opinions regarding man to man defense(especially on smaller players).

[bigboi]

KG for sure. KG arguably has GOAT impact on defense. This is board is so weird. So we have people claiming Giannis is better than KG defensively and one of the best offensive players in the league yet in the same breath, claim he isn't the best player in the league or he's no where near prime Bron. That make any sense?

[Jaivl]

Nobody is "far more athletic" than KG lol. Maybe you're thinking about old KG there.

[kendogg]

Nobody is "far more athletic" than KG lol. Maybe you're thinking about old KG there.

Maybe you are just watching the wrong game.

KG has never had Elite hops at any point in his career. He's never been below average but never Elite either.

Throughout his career starting at SF and going to PF then C, he never had GOAT level quickness for his position, not even Superstar level. Maybe Allstar level.

Young KG was absolutely a liability in strength, and has his career went on he lost some of his speed and added muscle to compensate, as many players do as they age. I'd say he was below average strength for most of his career, and maybe average in the end. He was still a skinny ass in his MVP years.

Yes he has elite length and timing and court awareness. To me he's similar to Larry Bird in that they aren't traditionally exceptional atheletes but their mental plus length allows them to have significant impact on the defensive end.

[dygaction]

Nobody is "far more athletic" than KG lol. Maybe you're thinking about old KG there.

Maybe you are just watching the wrong game.

KG has never had Elite hops at any point in his career. He's never been below average but never Elite either.

Throughout his career starting at SF and going to PF then C, he never had GOAT level quickness for his position, not even Superstar level. Maybe Allstar level.

Young KG was absolutely a liability in strength, and has his career went on he lost some of his speed and added muscle to compensate, as many players do as they age. I'd say he was below average strength for most of his career, and maybe average in the end. He was still a skinny ass in his MVP years.

Yes he has elite length and timing and court awareness. To me he's similar to Larry Bird in that they aren't traditionally exceptional atheletes but their mental plus length allows them to have significant impact on the defensive end.

wait a minute, I don't know whether you are over evaluating Bird or underselling KG. They should not be in the same sentence when we talk about defense.

[OhayoKD]

The caveat though is I believe Buck’s defence stays relatively stable with Lopez off and Giannis on QBing the defence. (Even before Lopez came too btw).

The same thing can be said about Bucks defense with Lopez on and Giannis off though.

There is a 7 point gap between Giannis off, Lopez on and Lopez off and Giannis on. So uh...no