Wilt's high amount of fade aways - why and what if he played differently?

[Taj FTW]

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When you look at videos of world playing, a large percentage of a fadeaways, particularly ones that he banks off the glass. These are by no means easy shots. You don't see centers shooting this way much anymore.

Did he shoot this way and make so many other finish shots because centers weren't allowed to back down or simply overpower players is much back in that day? If he played like Shaq, he would have dominated even more. He is the only other player who could possibly match shaq in the combination of size and athleticism. He's got that ability to posterize guys nonstop like Shaq did.

If you play the more physical style like Shaq did (if he was allowed to), do You think that his stats would be even more gaudy?

[coastalmarker99]

Wilt during his career had to play with finesse instead of using a power game as Shaq did during his career due to the rules of his era.

In fact, if you watch the YouTube footage of the game in which the Bucks ended LA's 33 game winning streak.

Going on memory, at about the seven-minute mark of that footage, Kareem "sucker punches" Happy Hairston.

Wilt storms over to assist Hairston and Kareem retreats to the corner.

On the very next play, the Lakers inbound the ball to a 35-year-old Wilt, who just blows right thru a helpless Kareem for an easy basket.

Clearly, had Wilt been allowed to play as Shaq did.. well then he would have dominated even more as the rules of his era prevented him from using his greatest offensive weapon which was his strength.

Why Wilt Chamberlain couldn't play like Shaq: Vintage NBA Rules Part 1

Watch on YouTube

[SNPA]

If he could have just turned and rammed his shoulder through defenders he probably would have. That was not considered basketball in his day. It was a foul, and considered BS. Some of us consider it the same way today.

[dooki667]

Wilt during his career had to play with finesse instead of using a power game as Shaq did during his career due to the rules of his era.

In fact, if you watch the YouTube footage of the game in which the Bucks ended LA's 33 game winning streak.

Going on memory, at about the seven-minute mark of that footage, Kareem "sucker punches" Happy Hairston.

Wilt storms over to assist Hairston and Kareem retreats to the corner.

On the very next play, the Lakers inbound the ball to a 35-year-old Wilt, who just blows right thru a helpless Kareem for an easy basket.

Clearly, had Wilt been allowed to play as Shaq did.. well then he would have dominated even more as the rules of his era prevented him from using his greatest offensive weapon which was his strength.

Why Wilt Chamberlain couldn't play like Shaq: Vintage NBA Rules Part 1

Watch on YouTube

Wow the difference is just so absurd. the more I see and learn about the changes the more and more I wonder how can we possibly make any type of confident ranking or comparison it's just not the same game. Very similar to old baseball to me.

[penbeast0]

It was the rules of the day, but it was also a personal choice. Wilt has said that he didn't want to be seen as just a physical freak overpowering everyone but wanted to show that he was a skilled player as well. So some of it is conscious choice by Wilt.

[70sFan]

I tracked 40 (mostly incomplete) Wilt games from his whole career. He took 88 fadeaways out of 334 shots in that sample, which is slightly more than 25%. If you want to include only post up shots, then it's slightly less than 45% of post shots. He made them at 42% clip.

Let's compare that to Shaq, Olajuwon and Kareem (other high volume post scorers):

1962-73 Wilt: 26% of total shots. 43% of post shots, 42 FG%

1971-79 Kareem: 17% of total shots. 23% of post shots, 45 FG%
1993-94 Hakeem: 37% of total shots. 54% of post shots, 44 FG%
2000-01 Shaq: 11% of total shots. 16% of post shots, 35 FG%

If we include Shaq signature one handers as fadeaway shots, then his numbers goes up drastically:

2000-01 Shaq: 23% of total shots. 30% of post shots, 40 FG%

All of these are limited samples, but it seems that Wilt took more fadeaways than Kareem or Shaq, but also clearly less than fadeaway spammer like Hakeem. The numbers don't back up that Wilt's fadeaway was inefficient either.

[MacGill]

Watch on YouTube

When you look at videos of world playing, a large percentage of a fadeaways, particularly ones that he banks off the glass. These are by no means easy shots. You don't see centers shooting this way much anymore.

Did he shoot this way and make so many other finish shots because centers weren't allowed to back down or simply overpower players is much back in that day? If he played like Shaq, he would have dominated even more. He is the only other player who could possibly match shaq in the combination of size and athleticism. He's got that ability to posterize guys nonstop like Shaq did.

If you play the more physical style like Shaq did (if he was allowed to), do You think that his stats would be even more gaudy?

Wilt did this because he wanted to be seen as a more finesse player then the actual goliath that he was. He stated this in interviews and, in fact, on the day he met Ewing and Shaq he stated that perhaps he should have played more like O'Neal on live t.v.

Here is what we know: They had to change the rules because of Wilt and I believe everyone will believe and concur that. They also had decades between he and other great centers in a time where Wilt himself stated, in interviews, that it would be dumb of MJ to come into the 'big's domain' and even stated something similar about O'Neal.

So you have Wilt and other bigs stating that in their league the play of the 90's wouldn't be received well and aside from 'showboating' the bigs would all take care of them a'la Bad Boy Piston style as all I can assume.

So then why in the world did the nba have such a hard time trying to correctly officiate Shaq??? And the answer is simply that no other player in the history of the nba, as of this post, came close to playing a style of physical basketball where you couldn't state if it was an offensive foul or just larger and stronger than everybody else. For every o-foul he gave, and of course he did many, I can show the same where he caught the ball and the whistle blew because no team had an answer for him at the point of the league where the advancement in technology was vastly improved from earlier times. Right call or not, the league whined about this every night!

Early and peak O'Neal was an absolute nightmare to officiate. Much easier when he truly slowed down or after Miami no doubt. Humans blowing a whistle where we pretty much don't have any full footage of any of the games, what may have happened a few plays earlier etc. Highlight footage and snipped videos really means nothing unless you can accurately review and rate on equal terms. It's why I take a lot of Wilt with a grain of salt because there are limited full footage games of him to review. Only 20 years passed from Wilt to Shaq and certainly no where close to the league not being ready to accurately officiate someone...unless....

It's not like refs go....damn, look at Ja, never saw anything like it before.....

respectfully...

[70sFan]

I also want to add that Wilt wouldn't be able to replicate his insane volume scoring numbers without that shot. Chamberlain successful range was already limited, if you force him to stop using fadeaways then there is no way he'd score 30+ ppg without any counter move away from the paint. No player in NBA history ever did that.

[capfan33]

I tracked 40 (mostly incomplete) Wilt games from his whole career. He took 88 fadeaways out of 334 shots in that sample, which is slightly more than 25%. If you want to include only post up shots, then it's slightly less than 45% of post shots. He made them at 42% clip.

Let's compare that to Shaq, Olajuwon and Kareem (other high volume post scorers):

1962-73 Wilt: 26% of total shots. 43% of post shots, 42 FG%

1971-79 Kareem: 17% of total shots. 23% of post shots, 45 FG%
1993-94 Hakeem: 37% of total shots. 54% of post shots, 44 FG%
2000-01 Shaq: 11% of total shots. 16% of post shots, 35 FG%

If we include Shaq signature one handers as fadeaway shots, then his numbers goes up drastically:

2000-01 Shaq: 23% of total shots. 30% of post shots, 40 FG%

All of these are limited samples, but it seems that Wilt took more fadeaways than Kareem or Shaq, but also clearly less than fadeaway spammer like Hakeem. The numbers don't back up that Wilt's fadeaway was inefficient either.

I'm surprised Kareem's fadeaway was that accurate, I would've thought around 40% at best.

[70sFan]

I tracked 40 (mostly incomplete) Wilt games from his whole career. He took 88 fadeaways out of 334 shots in that sample, which is slightly more than 25%. If you want to include only post up shots, then it's slightly less than 45% of post shots. He made them at 42% clip.

Let's compare that to Shaq, Olajuwon and Kareem (other high volume post scorers):

1962-73 Wilt: 26% of total shots. 43% of post shots, 42 FG%

1971-79 Kareem: 17% of total shots. 23% of post shots, 45 FG%
1993-94 Hakeem: 37% of total shots. 54% of post shots, 44 FG%
2000-01 Shaq: 11% of total shots. 16% of post shots, 35 FG%

If we include Shaq signature one handers as fadeaway shots, then his numbers goes up drastically:

2000-01 Shaq: 23% of total shots. 30% of post shots, 40 FG%

All of these are limited samples, but it seems that Wilt took more fadeaways than Kareem or Shaq, but also clearly less than fadeaway spammer like Hakeem. The numbers don't back up that Wilt's fadeaway was inefficient either.

I'm surprised Kareem's fadeaway was that accurate, I would've thought around 40% at best.

Kareem really refined his fadeaway jumpshot in the later part of his prime. He always had it in his arsenal, but I think his efficiency went up in LA.

[Taj FTW]

I tracked 40 (mostly incomplete) Wilt games from his whole career. He took 88 fadeaways out of 334 shots in that sample, which is slightly more than 25%. If you want to include only post up shots, then it's slightly less than 45% of post shots. He made them at 42% clip.

Let's compare that to Shaq, Olajuwon and Kareem (other high volume post scorers):

1962-73 Wilt: 26% of total shots. 43% of post shots, 42 FG%

1971-79 Kareem: 17% of total shots. 23% of post shots, 45 FG%
1993-94 Hakeem: 37% of total shots. 54% of post shots, 44 FG%
2000-01 Shaq: 11% of total shots. 16% of post shots, 35 FG%

If we include Shaq signature one handers as fadeaway shots, then his numbers goes up drastically:

2000-01 Shaq: 23% of total shots. 30% of post shots, 40 FG%

All of these are limited samples, but it seems that Wilt took more fadeaways than Kareem or Shaq, but also clearly less than fadeaway spammer like Hakeem. The numbers don't back up that Wilt's fadeaway was inefficient either.

I saw a video recently where Earl Monroe said that 60% of Wilt's shots were fadeaways. I'm assuming that is inflated though.

[Taj FTW]

I also want to add that Wilt wouldn't be able to replicate his insane volume scoring numbers without that shot. Chamberlain successful range was already limited, if you force him to stop using fadeaways then there is no way he'd score 30+ ppg without any counter move away from the paint. No player in NBA history ever did that.

Of course I wouldn't take it away from him. I just wonder if he would score even more or have a better efficiency if he simply overpowered guys like Shaq did on occasion.

[70sFan]

I tracked 40 (mostly incomplete) Wilt games from his whole career. He took 88 fadeaways out of 334 shots in that sample, which is slightly more than 25%. If you want to include only post up shots, then it's slightly less than 45% of post shots. He made them at 42% clip.

Let's compare that to Shaq, Olajuwon and Kareem (other high volume post scorers):

1962-73 Wilt: 26% of total shots. 43% of post shots, 42 FG%

1971-79 Kareem: 17% of total shots. 23% of post shots, 45 FG%
1993-94 Hakeem: 37% of total shots. 54% of post shots, 44 FG%
2000-01 Shaq: 11% of total shots. 16% of post shots, 35 FG%

If we include Shaq signature one handers as fadeaway shots, then his numbers goes up drastically:

2000-01 Shaq: 23% of total shots. 30% of post shots, 40 FG%

All of these are limited samples, but it seems that Wilt took more fadeaways than Kareem or Shaq, but also clearly less than fadeaway spammer like Hakeem. The numbers don't back up that Wilt's fadeaway was inefficient either.

I saw a video recently where Earl Monroe said that 60% of Wilt's shots were fadeaways. I'm assuming that is inflated though.

I also have heard such statements, Thurmond also said something similar. We have to remember that such statements are based on memory of a player's impression, because it's very unlikely that any of these players actually tracked Wilt shots.

[70sFan]

I also want to add that Wilt wouldn't be able to replicate his insane volume scoring numbers without that shot. Chamberlain successful range was already limited, if you force him to stop using fadeaways then there is no way he'd score 30+ ppg without any counter move away from the paint. No player in NBA history ever did that.

Of course I wouldn't take it away from him. I just wonder if he would score even more or have a better efficiency if he simply overpowered guys like Shaq did on occasion.

Wilt wasn't allowed to overpower players to the same degree Shaq did, but let's not forget that Wilt was still mainly a power player. He relied on his physical advantages a lot more than most post scorers did back then. A lot of his post moves were actually power moves to the basket - his famous finger roll for example. I also have quite a few examples of Wilt just dunking on his defenders in the post with ease.

[Cavsfansince84]

I also have heard such statements, Thurmond also said something similar. We have to remember that such statements are based on memory of a player's impression, because it's very unlikely that any of these players actually tracked Wilt shots.

Also likely he was using more fadeaways against Thurmond than anyone else since it would be harder for him to get good position or easily get by him. So that skewers Nate's perception of what Wilt would usually do.

[migya]

Chamberlain would have averaged alot more points if he was allowed to play anything like Shaq. He would have scored more and been better in Shaq's era than Shaq was.

[70sFan]

Chamberlain would have averaged alot more points if he was allowed to play anything like Shaq. He would have scored more and been better in Shaq's era than Shaq was.

Shaq style isn't suited to score at such high volume.

[ronnymac2]

He shot a lot of fadeaways because fadeaways allow you to amp up the USG% and require less energy than actually working for higher percentage shots. Wilt is playing 48 MPG and is basically required by his coaches, front offices, and the league itself to put up eye-popping scoring numbers to draw fans. He kind of had to take fadeaways to accomplish all this.

I have to chuckle when posters talk about rule enforcement being the reason Wilt didn't play like Shaq or at least didn't use his power game more than he did. This guy never fouled out of any NBA game in 14 years despite playing more average minutes than anybody else. He COULD have shot less fadeaways and played with more power, and the league would have done absolutely nothing about it. They aren't fouling out their biggest draw.

1.) Wilt was too preoccupied being insecure about being bigger than everybody.
2.) In his younger days, he shot fadeaways due to energy, not because he was scared they would foul him out. Why worry about something that literally doesn't happen? Completely illogical for people to think this.

[WestGOAT]

Wilt during his career had to play with finesse instead of using a power game as Shaq did during his career due to the rules of his era.

In fact, if you watch the YouTube footage of the game in which the Bucks ended LA's 33 game winning streak.

Going on memory, at about the seven-minute mark of that footage, Kareem "sucker punches" Happy Hairston.

Wilt storms over to assist Hairston and Kareem retreats to the corner.

On the very next play, the Lakers inbound the ball to a 35-year-old Wilt, who just blows right thru a helpless Kareem for an easy basket.

Clearly, had Wilt been allowed to play as Shaq did.. well then he would have dominated even more as the rules of his era prevented him from using his greatest offensive weapon which was his strength.

Why Wilt Chamberlain couldn't play like Shaq: Vintage NBA Rules Part 1

Watch on YouTube

Imagine super-athletic legends of the players being allowed to play like Giannis

[capfan33]

He shot a lot of fadeaways because fadeaways allow you to amp up the USG% and require less energy than actually working for higher percentage shots. Wilt is playing 48 MPG and is basically required by his coaches, front offices, and the league itself to put up eye-popping scoring numbers to draw fans. He kind of had to take fadeaways to accomplish all this.

I have to chuckle when posters talk about rule enforcement being the reason Wilt didn't play like Shaq or at least didn't use his power game more than he did. This guy never fouled out of any NBA game in 14 years despite playing more average minutes than anybody else. He COULD have shot less fadeaways and played with more power, and the league would have done absolutely nothing about it. They aren't fouling out their biggest draw.

1.) Wilt was too preoccupied being insecure about being bigger than everybody.
2.) In his younger days, he shot fadeaways due to energy, not because he was scared they would foul him out. Why worry about something that literally doesn't happen? Completely illogical for people to think this.

Yea and even with shooting a lot of fadeaways, it seems that Wilt definitely took some years off defensively compared to others, almost certainly because he simply didn't have the energy to score 50 a game and go balls to the wall on defense.

And this is a factor that I think gets underrated a lot when discussing basketball, even NBA players only have a finite about of energy and elite players are almost never able to go full-bore in every facet of their skill set because of this.