2023 Miami Heat Regular Season Thread - Westbrook and Love edition

[MettaWorldPanda]

KP would be a great addition, we don’t have to swing for the fences, we just need consistent players that can shoot and add scoring next to our all star and Jimmy. KP and 3 reliable 3 and D role players should put us over the top if we want to go all in

It’s really one of our best possibilities considering all the dynamics. Not many teams can match KP with expiring's. Lowry, Martin, and 2023 pick gives the Wiz 30 million off the books the following year, a cheap rotation wing in Martin and a cost controlled young player with the 2023 pick for a player they can’t afford and most likely to walk. Feels like a win on both ends. We still keep the majority of our draft capital in the future by only giving up the 2023 and the addition of Martin is just the cost of doing business. Doing right by Jeff Schwartz consistently opens up a big door for his next big free agent client.

[AirP.]

So, we kept hearing that the FO loved this team, well that was when everyone looked like they were healthy and ready to contribute before the season started. With Yurtseven nearing a return, might him being out have caused enough issues to put Miami where it currently is, not quite but it's helped, if nothing else Yurtseven being out took one of the 3 bigs out of the rotation which made Miami play small at the 4 almost all year long which has been a problem.

Looking at what the rotation could have been this season (minus injuries that happen) ...
Starters: Lowry, Herro, Butler, Yurtseven and Bam.
Reset of rotation: Oladipo, Martin, Strus, Vincent and Dedmon.
That's a solid roster with no lack of size with 2 high level defenders in the starters and bench.

I think the loss of Yurtseven this year was a much bigger issue then it had to be because the FO did not have an adequate PF backup on the roster and with Dedmon running out of gas in his career. Highsmith was/is being developed to play PF but he wasn't ready, the FO absolutely needed a decent PF backup in case of Bam or Yurtseven going down (Yurtseven could have slid over to Center which he'd probably play some even with Bam on the court).

So now Kevin Love has been added before Yurtseven got back and he was put in the starting lineup quickly so I think it's probable Love will continue to start (the M.Leonard role) and instead of extending his minutes, Spoelstra is already defining his role by limiting his minutes so there's no change once Yurtseven gets back into the rotation which Zeller will fall to the 3rd string center. The reason you limit Love's minutes now is to get him used to what pace he needs to play at, if he's playing more minutes he's going to pace himself vs going all out if he's playing a smaller amount of minutes.

I do wonder if Spoelstra may move Herro to scoring 6th man come playoff time to allow him to go against more backups to score better and not have to defend playoff starting level guards/wings and play 4 smalls and Yurtseven with the non-starters, that lineup worked great last year having a center with size and a center's game to keep the defense worried about him getting an easy 2.

Now if Spoelstra can just get ALL the players on the court giving solid effort on the defensive end, this team can still beat anyone in a playoff series even if they're not favored, if they don't get that effort, they'll be on vacation early after looking horrible in whatever level of playoffs they make(play-in?).

[AirP.]

It's going to be very interesting to see what the bench can do once he's added to the rotation, either as a bench guy or starter(although I think Spoelstra keeps Love as the stater).

Watch on YouTube

[insfo]

You both deserve to have your polarizing opinions on Bam. Do I think Bam is a mega star IMO? Probably not but he's also a player who's going to be key contributor on any championship team considering his all around game. I think the FO has to do a much better job on building a proper team. As it stands now we are currently wasting close to 50 million on dead weight between Lowry and Duncan. It's really hard to overcome that in today's salary capped and heavily luxury taxed penalty NBA.

While I generally agree with takes like this, only one of those opinions is constantly parroted on here. Like every single post on every single thread. I love that we are passionate about our players, heck that is what a fan literally means, but at some point it just gets a bit tiring.

[Beenie]

You have literally no clue, dudes an all star and still has the most room to grow on the team.

Regardless, what I stated is true.

You all will start listening to me on Bam soon enough.

I have 6 years of context to base this on and there are no signs that he has the mental make up nor the natural ability to become the the type of player you seem to think he’s destined to be.

What you are hoping and propagandizing for is that Bam will take a leap both in terms of his mentality and with his skills in the second half of his career to become a franchise level player.

Examples of this type of player are very few.

You should at least admit that much as it would serve as a disclaimer to all of the non stop hyping up of Bam

You have 6 years of context of Bam being a much better player at that age than Jimmy was and 6 years of data that shows he’s improved every season of his career.

You all can talk about mentality all you want, you aren’t as elite of a defender as Bam is without a dog mentality and it’s just that Simple. This mentality that Jimmy has over Bam has only accounted for .8 PPG more than Bam this year and that’s after a little cold streak.

You all act like I’m hyping Bam up as a KD level scorer or something lol he’s a guy that at his peak might be able to give you 25-11-4 as a baseline statistic with best in the world level defense, or in simple terms, top 10 player in the world potential. He will never be the first option scoring wise on a championship team but he can fit damn sure be a 2nd or 3rd and when you factor that in with good playmaking and elite defense that’s a damn good player.

Where was this talk the last time we played the Knicks when Jimmy had 10 and Bam had 32? It’s game by game knee jerk reactions

Jimmy possesses an intangible that Bam simply doesn't have and that's his competitive spirit. He raises his game when the stakes are elevated. He's done it consistently in the playoffs when it mattered the most.

There's no knee jerking about it.

Bam is a brilliant defender and has developed a nice enough offensive game that slots him in as a decent secondary option. But he's no franchise player i.e. the guy worthy to be building around with the eventual hopes of being a title contender.

That guy must possess the ability to raise his game on the biggest stages consistently.

Wade and Jimmy both have this intangible. Sorry to say, Bam doesn't.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

I have 6 years of context to base this on and there are no signs that he has the mental make up nor the natural ability to become the the type of player you seem to think he’s destined to be.

What you are hoping and propagandizing for is that Bam will take a leap both in terms of his mentality and with his skills in the second half of his career to become a franchise level player.

Examples of this type of player are very few.

You should at least admit that much as it would serve as a disclaimer to all of the non stop hyping up of Bam

You have 6 years of context of Bam being a much better player at that age than Jimmy was and 6 years of data that shows he’s improved every season of his career.

You all can talk about mentality all you want, you aren’t as elite of a defender as Bam is without a dog mentality and it’s just that Simple. This mentality that Jimmy has over Bam has only accounted for .8 PPG more than Bam this year and that’s after a little cold streak.

You all act like I’m hyping Bam up as a KD level scorer or something lol he’s a guy that at his peak might be able to give you 25-11-4 as a baseline statistic with best in the world level defense, or in simple terms, top 10 player in the world potential. He will never be the first option scoring wise on a championship team but he can fit damn sure be a 2nd or 3rd and when you factor that in with good playmaking and elite defense that’s a damn good player.

Where was this talk the last time we played the Knicks when Jimmy had 10 and Bam had 32? It’s game by game knee jerk reactions

Jimmy possesses an intangible that Bam simply doesn't have and that's his competitive spirit. He raises his game when the stakes are elevated. He's done it consistently in the playoffs when it mattered the most.

There's no knee jerking about it.

Bam is a brilliant defender and has developed a nice enough offensive game that slots him in as a decent secondary option. But he's no franchise player i.e. the guy worthy to be building around with the eventual hopes of being a title contender.

That guy must possess the ability to raise his game on the biggest stages consistently.

Wade and Jimmy both have this intangible. Sorry to say, Bam doesn't.

We’ve seen multiple performances that say otherwise and he’s still developing, luckily we wasted 2 years of offensive development spamming DHOs and building our entire offense around undrafted players who can’t create their own shot.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

You both deserve to have your polarizing opinions on Bam. Do I think Bam is a mega star IMO? Probably not but he's also a player who's going to be key contributor on any championship team considering his all around game. I think the FO has to do a much better job on building a proper team. As it stands now we are currently wasting close to 50 million on dead weight between Lowry and Duncan. It's really hard to overcome that in today's salary capped and heavily luxury taxed penalty NBA.

While I generally agree with takes like this, only one of those opinions is constantly parroted on here. Like every single post on every single thread. I love that we are passionate about our players, heck that is what a fan literally means, but at some point it just gets a bit tiring.

If there wasn’t so much blatant talking out of the ass I woj don’t have to defend it lol. It’s non stop disrespect, dude could be averaging 35-15-8 and have a bad game and we’d be saying he’s Clint Capela

[Beenie]

You both deserve to have your polarizing opinions on Bam. Do I think Bam is a mega star IMO? Probably not but he's also a player who's going to be key contributor on any championship team considering his all around game. I think the FO has to do a much better job on building a proper team. As it stands now we are currently wasting close to 50 million on dead weight between Lowry and Duncan. It's really hard to overcome that in today's salary capped and heavily luxury taxed penalty NBA.

While I generally agree with takes like this, only one of those opinions is constantly parroted on here. Like every single post on every single thread. I love that we are passionate about our players, heck that is what a fan literally means, but at some point it just gets a bit tiring.

If there wasn’t so much blatant talking out of the ass I woj don’t have to defend it lol. It’s non stop disrespect, dude could be averaging 35-15-8 and have a bad game and we’d be saying he’s Clint Capela

The criticism is a response to the hyping.

At first, in general, the fanbase was in complete agreement in their support and admiration of Bam.

The contract and expectations changed that dynamic.

Too many poor performances in the playoffs also factors in.

Despite these things, his supporters have been steadfast in their cheerleading

[3ammy3uck3ts]

While I generally agree with takes like this, only one of those opinions is constantly parroted on here. Like every single post on every single thread. I love that we are passionate about our players, heck that is what a fan literally means, but at some point it just gets a bit tiring.

If there wasn’t so much blatant talking out of the ass I woj don’t have to defend it lol. It’s non stop disrespect, dude could be averaging 35-15-8 and have a bad game and we’d be saying he’s Clint Capela

The criticism is a response to the hyping.

At first, in general, the fanbase was in complete agreement in their support and admiration of Bam.

The contract and expectations changed that dynamic.

Too many poor performances in the playoffs also factors in.

Despite these things, his supporters have been steadfast in their cheerleading

If your criticism comes from the contract, he’s underpaid if anything.

[carnageta]

So, we kept hearing that the FO loved this team, well that was when everyone looked like they were healthy and ready to contribute before the season started. With Yurtseven nearing a return, might him being out have caused enough issues to put Miami where it currently is, not quite but it's helped, if nothing else Yurtseven being out took one of the 3 bigs out of the rotation which made Miami play small at the 4 almost all year long which has been a problem.

Looking at what the rotation could have been this season (minus injuries that happen) ...
Starters: Lowry, Herro, Butler, Yurtseven and Bam.
Reset of rotation: Oladipo, Martin, Strus, Vincent and Dedmon.
That's a solid roster with no lack of size with 2 high level defenders in the starters and bench.

I think the loss of Yurtseven this year was a much bigger issue then it had to be because the FO did not have an adequate PF backup on the roster and with Dedmon running out of gas in his career. Highsmith was/is being developed to play PF but he wasn't ready, the FO absolutely needed a decent PF backup in case of Bam or Yurtseven going down (Yurtseven could have slid over to Center which he'd probably play some even with Bam on the court).

So now Kevin Love has been added before Yurtseven got back and he was put in the starting lineup quickly so I think it's probable Love will continue to start (the M.Leonard role) and instead of extending his minutes, Spoelstra is already defining his role by limiting his minutes so there's no change once Yurtseven gets back into the rotation which Zeller will fall to the 3rd string center. The reason you limit Love's minutes now is to get him used to what pace he needs to play at, if he's playing more minutes he's going to pace himself vs going all out if he's playing a smaller amount of minutes.

I do wonder if Spoelstra may move Herro to scoring 6th man come playoff time to allow him to go against more backups to score better and not have to defend playoff starting level guards/wings and play 4 smalls and Yurtseven with the non-starters, that lineup worked great last year having a center with size and a center's game to keep the defense worried about him getting an easy 2.

Now if Spoelstra can just get ALL the players on the court giving solid effort on the defensive end, this team can still beat anyone in a playoff series even if they're not favored, if they don't get that effort, they'll be on vacation early after looking horrible in whatever level of playoffs they make(play-in?).

YurtSeven being out is an excuse the Heat hopes it's fanbase will use as to help explain why the team has played so poorly this year.

The truth is even if Yurt was 100% healthy, Spo would not have resorted to playing him and Bam together on the floor, and he likely still would have been behind Dedmon in the C rotation.

[carnageta]

Bam since dropping 38 on Myles Turner: 14fga / game.


Nice, right back to where it was last year.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

An undrafted C is not saving this team lol

[ShulaDon92]

Bam's a nice player. He's the anchor to our defense which is a top halfcourt defense.

He's improving offensively, but he's not a consistent offensive player, he does well in spurts. Also the team needs him spending energy on defense since he has no three point game and has to spend a lot of energy getting two point buckets.

[ShulaDon92]

I would like to see Bam used more as an alley-oop threat. We don't see that much anymore since the Wade and Dragic days.

We've lost offensive talent, clearly.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Bam since dropping 38 on Myles Turner: 14fga / game.


Nice, right back to where it was last year.

Still too high for Spo, he could give at least 6 of those to Duncan

[ShulaDon92]

Also, a reminder that Eastern conference teams are not trading within the same conference.

Kyrie to Dallas
Durant to Phoenix
Westbrook from Washington to LA
Sabonis to Sacramento

[3ammy3uck3ts]

I would like to see Bam used more as an alley-oop threat. We don't see that much anymore since the Wade and Dragic days.

We've lost offensive talent, clearly.

We miss him so many times in those spots, the only one able to somewhat find him in those scenarios is Herro. Wade is the best lob passer ever, Dragic was pretty damn good at it too. One thing those guys have in common, elite rim pressure

[ShulaDon92]

Herros development has failed him, he's become a sub par mid range player. We need him raining threes as I've been obsessively preaching.

He needs to be developed as a Steph Curry type, not a Wade or Derozan type.

[MettaWorldPanda]

Lowry, Martin, and 2023 pick for Kristaps Porzingis

Herro, 2028 and 2030 picks for?

Possible scenarios going into the offseason

[Kobewade11]

Also, a reminder that Eastern conference teams are not trading within the same conference.

Kyrie to Dallas
Durant to Phoenix
Westbrook from Washington to LA

Since Westbrook was traded from Washington to LA:

Kyle Lowry to Miami
Harden from Brooklyn to Philly
Brogdon from Indiana to Boston

Teams will absolutely trade intra-conference its just a matter of having pieces the other team actually wants