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Tank World Order (10.0) The Empire Strikes Back

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How should the team move forward this season?

Go for ping pong balls to draft a star potential prospect adding to our core.
115
75%
Core is good already, make a push for the playoffs even if it’s the play-in.
16
10%
I don’t know currently, going to wait and see.
23
15%
 
Total votes: 154

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Re: Tank World Order (10.0) The Empire Strikes Back 

Post#1801 » by KL78192020 » Mon Mar 6, 2023 1:49 am

ItsDanger wrote:29-53, 26-56, 36-46, 23-43. 4 year stretch for GS. Not quite bottom of league but close to it.

Curry, Thompson, Barnes, Green drafted in this stretch. Iguodala was acquired in trade subsequently. the core was established.


I think people get to hung over on the word tanking. At the end of the day the best players are in the draft lottery, I don't care if the team naturaly sucks to get a top pick or does it via tanking. That is where the best talent is for the most part, 18 out of the 24 all stars were lottery picks.

Indy didn't tank on purpose last year, they sucked and got Mathurin.
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Re: Tank World Order (10.0) The Empire Strikes Back 

Post#1802 » by nikster » Mon Mar 6, 2023 1:57 am

ItsDanger wrote:
Duffman100 wrote:
ItsDanger wrote:29-53, 26-56, 36-46, 23-43. 4 year stretch for GS. Not quite bottom of league but close to it.

Curry, Thompson, Barnes, Green drafted in this stretch. Iguodala was acquired in trade subsequently. the core was established.


They didn’t tank. Nor did we. They didn’t get top 5 picks. They didn’t intentionally sell of assets to get higher lottery picks. Nor did we.

Warriors dynasty never happens if they made 8th seed in playoffs those seasons. I'm not going to rehash these explanations. You can rebuild by finishing 7th last or thereabouts. Especially with lottery odds today. Let alone other factors.

If you think tanking is just being bad then the Warriors were basically a tanking franchise since 1995. 13 years of being **** and largely drafting in the lottery with several high picks before they lucked out and got Curry at 7. What a model to emulate
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Re: Tank World Order (10.0) The Empire Strikes Back 

Post#1803 » by Los_29 » Mon Mar 6, 2023 2:04 am

nikster wrote:
ItsDanger wrote:
Duffman100 wrote:
They didn’t tank. Nor did we. They didn’t get top 5 picks. They didn’t intentionally sell of assets to get higher lottery picks. Nor did we.

Warriors dynasty never happens if they made 8th seed in playoffs those seasons. I'm not going to rehash these explanations. You can rebuild by finishing 7th last or thereabouts. Especially with lottery odds today. Let alone other factors.

If you think tanking is just being bad then the Warriors were basically a tanking franchise since 1995. 13 years of being **** and largely drafting in the lottery with several high picks before they lucked out and got Curry at 7. What a model to emulate


Yeah it always makes me chuckle when people bring up the Warriors. They made the playoffs once in 12 years and then two years later drafted Curry followed by Klay and Green. They were an awful franchise that were treadmilling when they got one of the best point guards of all-time. That's not really a viable blueprint to follow. :lol:
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Re: Tank World Order (10.0) The Empire Strikes Back 

Post#1804 » by Duffman100 » Mon Mar 6, 2023 2:06 am

Los_29 wrote:
nikster wrote:
ItsDanger wrote:Warriors dynasty never happens if they made 8th seed in playoffs those seasons. I'm not going to rehash these explanations. You can rebuild by finishing 7th last or thereabouts. Especially with lottery odds today. Let alone other factors.

If you think tanking is just being bad then the Warriors were basically a tanking franchise since 1995. 13 years of being **** and largely drafting in the lottery with several high picks before they lucked out and got Curry at 7. What a model to emulate


Yeah it always makes me chuckle when people bring up the Warriors. They made the playoffs once in 12 years and then two years later drafted Curry followed by Klay and Green. They were an awful franchise that were treadmilling when they got one of the best point guards of all-time. That's not really a viable blueprint to follow. :lol:


And they were trying to win.
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Re: Tank World Order (10.0) The Empire Strikes Back 

Post#1805 » by sbsat » Mon Mar 6, 2023 2:36 am

Los_29 wrote:
nikster wrote:
ItsDanger wrote:Warriors dynasty never happens if they made 8th seed in playoffs those seasons. I'm not going to rehash these explanations. You can rebuild by finishing 7th last or thereabouts. Especially with lottery odds today. Let alone other factors.

If you think tanking is just being bad then the Warriors were basically a tanking franchise since 1995. 13 years of being **** and largely drafting in the lottery with several high picks before they lucked out and got Curry at 7. What a model to emulate


Yeah it always makes me chuckle when people bring up the Warriors. They made the playoffs once in 12 years and then two years later drafted Curry followed by Klay and Green. They were an awful franchise that were treadmilling when they got one of the best point guards of all-time. That's not really a viable blueprint to follow. :lol:


They were trying to win. It took them to put in a competent front office to gain success. Should we thank rob babcock for our title? Lol
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Re: Tank World Order (10.0) The Empire Strikes Back 

Post#1806 » by ItsDanger » Mon Mar 6, 2023 2:40 am

Trying to win with those records? LOL you really buy into all that GM salestalk? They were bad. End result of the season is all that matters
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Re: Tank World Order (10.0) The Empire Strikes Back 

Post#1807 » by nikster » Mon Mar 6, 2023 3:07 am

sbsat wrote:
Los_29 wrote:
nikster wrote:If you think tanking is just being bad then the Warriors were basically a tanking franchise since 1995. 13 years of being **** and largely drafting in the lottery with several high picks before they lucked out and got Curry at 7. What a model to emulate


Yeah it always makes me chuckle when people bring up the Warriors. They made the playoffs once in 12 years and then two years later drafted Curry followed by Klay and Green. They were an awful franchise that were treadmilling when they got one of the best point guards of all-time. That's not really a viable blueprint to follow. :lol:


They were trying to win. It took them to put in a competent front office to gain success. Should we thank rob babcock for our title? Lol

Guy above said it doesn't matter how, what matters is they were bad and got high picks and that ended up with Curry. Do you think they were intentionally trying to tank when they drafted their championship Core with the 7th, 11th and 35th picks? They were competing for 2 years before they were decimated by injuries which gave them the Curry pick. Chris Mullins was executive from 2004 until right before Curry was drafted, so he was responsible for the bad season that landed them Curry.

From 1995 they had 8 top 10 picks and a handful of other lottery picks and got no talent and no success.
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Re: Tank World Order (10.0) The Empire Strikes Back 

Post#1808 » by nikster » Mon Mar 6, 2023 3:11 am

ItsDanger wrote:Trying to win with those records? LOL you really buy into all that GM salestalk? They were bad. End result of the season is all that matters

They were a competitive team for 2 years then get decimated by injuries. Mullins was fired after that season. Yes they were clearly trying to compete.

What about them being bad for like a decade starting from 95 when they had many picks way higher than those used to build the championship Core?
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Re: Tank World Order (10.0) The Empire Strikes Back 

Post#1809 » by ItsDanger » Mon Mar 6, 2023 3:20 am

nikster wrote:
ItsDanger wrote:Trying to win with those records? LOL you really buy into all that GM salestalk? They were bad. End result of the season is all that matters

They were a competitive team for 2 years then get decimated by injuries. Mullins was fired after that season. Yes they were clearly trying to compete.

What about them being bad for like a decade starting from 95 when they had many picks way higher than those used to build the championship Core?

Irrelevant to the question
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Re: Tank World Order (10.0) The Empire Strikes Back 

Post#1810 » by Johnny Bball » Mon Mar 6, 2023 3:34 am

Duffman100 wrote:
Los_29 wrote:
nikster wrote:If you think tanking is just being bad then the Warriors were basically a tanking franchise since 1995. 13 years of being **** and largely drafting in the lottery with several high picks before they lucked out and got Curry at 7. What a model to emulate


Yeah it always makes me chuckle when people bring up the Warriors. They made the playoffs once in 12 years and then two years later drafted Curry followed by Klay and Green. They were an awful franchise that were treadmilling when they got one of the best point guards of all-time. That's not really a viable blueprint to follow. :lol:


And they were trying to win.


If you're going to go back to 1995 then its a totally different ballgame. I think this is where basing the tanking argument on history somewhat falls down a little. In the 1990's far more picks after 20, sometimes 15 were usually trash, with a few players being able to stick. That changed a little maybe around 2003/4/5, and changed alot in the 2010's.

Maybe it was when the entire world became the pool of players, maybe it was just the poplarity of the game and no expansion for 27 years. Or all of it. But it seems to me now that there is far more talent in the last 10 years at the bottom half of the first round and the 2nd, and even after the draft itself.

I'm just saying at one point, maybe further back, there was little you could get if you missed the lottery.
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Re: Tank World Order (10.0) The Empire Strikes Back 

Post#1811 » by Los_29 » Mon Mar 6, 2023 3:45 am

Duffman100 wrote:
Los_29 wrote:
nikster wrote:If you think tanking is just being bad then the Warriors were basically a tanking franchise since 1995. 13 years of being **** and largely drafting in the lottery with several high picks before they lucked out and got Curry at 7. What a model to emulate


Yeah it always makes me chuckle when people bring up the Warriors. They made the playoffs once in 12 years and then two years later drafted Curry followed by Klay and Green. They were an awful franchise that were treadmilling when they got one of the best point guards of all-time. That's not really a viable blueprint to follow. :lol:


And they were trying to win.


Yeah and if I'm not mistaken they still had players like Monta Ellis, Stephen Jackson, Al Harrington, Jamal Crawford and Corey Maggette. Biedrins was their center I believe. If you have those players on your team then you're not trying to tank.
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Re: Tank World Order (10.0) The Empire Strikes Back 

Post#1812 » by sbsat » Mon Mar 6, 2023 3:49 am

The fallacy in every pro tankers argument is on a long enough timeline, you can attribute any success to a period of poor play. What tanking means is deliberate losing over a 3-5 year period to build your team. Using that loose definition, TANKING DOES NOT WORK.
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Re: Tank World Order (10.0) The Empire Strikes Back 

Post#1813 » by ItsDanger » Mon Mar 6, 2023 3:52 am

LOL, laundry list of mediocrity. Harrington? Crawford??? Oh man. Maggette, undersized 3? Gimme a break, a roster doomed to failure.
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Re: Tank World Order (10.0) The Empire Strikes Back 

Post#1814 » by sbsat » Mon Mar 6, 2023 3:53 am

ItsDanger wrote:LOL, laundry list of mediocrity. Harrington? Crawford??? Oh man. Maggette, undersized 3? Gimme a break, a roster doomed to failure.


You think those players were mediocre?
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Re: Tank World Order (10.0) The Empire Strikes Back 

Post#1815 » by Los_29 » Mon Mar 6, 2023 3:55 am

ItsDanger wrote:LOL, laundry list of mediocrity. Harrington? Crawford??? Oh man. Maggette, undersized 3? Gimme a break, a roster doomed to failure.


Exactly, a laundry list of mediocrity. That's exactly what we are trying to say. They weren't going into those seasons with the intention of tanking.
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Re: Tank World Order (10.0) The Empire Strikes Back 

Post#1816 » by ItsDanger » Mon Mar 6, 2023 3:56 am

sbsat wrote:
ItsDanger wrote:LOL, laundry list of mediocrity. Harrington? Crawford??? Oh man. Maggette, undersized 3? Gimme a break, a roster doomed to failure.


You think those players were mediocre?

The sum isn't always greater than its parts. Roster building 101.
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Re: Tank World Order (10.0) The Empire Strikes Back 

Post#1817 » by nikster » Mon Mar 6, 2023 3:56 am

ItsDanger wrote:
nikster wrote:
ItsDanger wrote:Trying to win with those records? LOL you really buy into all that GM salestalk? They were bad. End result of the season is all that matters

They were a competitive team for 2 years then get decimated by injuries. Mullins was fired after that season. Yes they were clearly trying to compete.

What about them being bad for like a decade starting from 95 when they had many picks way higher than those used to build the championship Core?

Irrelevant to the question

Since you're ignoring that part of the post I'm gonna assume you've accepted the fact that the Warriors were trying to compete.

Hows it irrellevent? You want to use GSW as an example of the success of the tank ignoring the fact that it took them a decade plus of picking in the high end of the lottery to land their star.
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Re: Tank World Order (10.0) The Empire Strikes Back 

Post#1818 » by ItsDanger » Mon Mar 6, 2023 3:57 am

Los_29 wrote:
ItsDanger wrote:LOL, laundry list of mediocrity. Harrington? Crawford??? Oh man. Maggette, undersized 3? Gimme a break, a roster doomed to failure.


Exactly, a laundry list of mediocrity. That's exactly what we are trying to say. They weren't going into those seasons with the intention of tanking.

Except players with clear flaws put together equals disaster record wise. Obvious attempt to just throw together whatever.
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Re: Tank World Order (10.0) The Empire Strikes Back 

Post#1819 » by ItsDanger » Mon Mar 6, 2023 4:01 am

nikster wrote:
ItsDanger wrote:
nikster wrote:They were a competitive team for 2 years then get decimated by injuries. Mullins was fired after that season. Yes they were clearly trying to compete.

What about them being bad for like a decade starting from 95 when they had many picks way higher than those used to build the championship Core?

Irrelevant to the question

Since you're ignoring that part of the post I'm gonna assume you've accepted the fact that the Warriors were trying to compete.

Hows it irrellevent? You want to use GSW as an example of the success of the tank ignoring the fact that it took them a decade plus of picking in the high end of the lottery to land their star.

I didn't ignore it, I'm stating it's irrelevant to the question at hand. In fact, you're ignoring the answer.
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Re: Tank World Order (10.0) The Empire Strikes Back 

Post#1820 » by nikster » Mon Mar 6, 2023 4:02 am

ItsDanger wrote:LOL, laundry list of mediocrity. Harrington? Crawford??? Oh man. Maggette, undersized 3? Gimme a break, a roster doomed to failure.

In that off season the Warriors signed Maggete who was coming off a season as one of the best scorers in the league.

Yes that roster wasn't winning anything meaningful. Doesn't mean the intention of management wasn't to compete with it.

I'm sure you think the current Wizards roster is doomed to fail. Would you say they are competing or tanking?

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