2022-2023 Regular Season Game 65: Portland Trail Blazers (29-34) Orlando Magic (27-37) - 6pm

[eyriq]

We didn't really learn much from this game but did get some additional evidence for a few things.

1. Franz and Paolo are studs
2. Bol is coachable
3. A Fultz/Suggs backcourt can work
4. Mosley has room to grow to become a win now coach
5. Cole can't defend and isn't a consistent impact player on offense
6. WCJ defensive impact is underrated

7. Moe Wagner can't play defense

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He really can't

[mattyBoi]

It's time to pack it in here, call it a season. We're at almost 3 months now with .500 basketball, we have alternated wins and losses for an entire month now. Focus on securing the 5th slot at this point.

[KillMonger]

If we've played like this from the jump, near 40 wins.... Still have problems with mose but the improvement is clear to see.... Although it may just be the fact that we got healthy....... That 5-20 start though

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[flying_mollusk]

If we've played like this from the jump, near 40 wins.... Still have problems with mose but the improvement is clear to see.... Although it may just be the fact that we got healthy....... That 5-20 start though

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There was a part of that 5-20 start where we actually had no healthy PG. This is a play-in .500 team that could get a high pick and another lottery pick and has cap space.

[cedric76]

What a wasted opportunity, a win today would have take us so close from play in.
However our guys are still playing for something and gaining XP

[cedric76]

Looks like we are stuck at 5th worst. Bad place to be.

No, it isn't. If we were Rockets or Spurs level record with the draft picks we had, even with our injuries, there would be a lot more deserved panic because it means we're way further away than we think without an overhaul.

5% place has 10.5% to Land 1st pick when 1st place has 14%. That's a tiny difference.

[SOUL]

Although it may just be the fact that we got healthy.

Mose has room for improvement but he''s done a great job. We're already a way better team than people thought this year.

And of course it's about health.. people who thought we were going to win with a 1st year player, two 2nd year players, and then having 6-8 rotation guys out for 30 games to start the year...I have a bridge to sell you

[drsd]

So, to continue the win-loss streak, this is a loss, right?

Yuck; this was a bad loss

[pepe1991]

it's kind a hilarious system where 3rd worst team out of 15 can make playoffs.

But it kind a stopped 10 teams at once to tank so i guess it works.

[Rainwater]

If we've played like this from the jump, near 40 wins.... Still have problems with mose but the improvement is clear to see.... Although it may just be the fact that we got healthy....... That 5-20 start though

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While health played a part in the poor start, I believe the poor start would have occurred regardless and was pretty predictable. Injuries weren't the only issues at play. The magic had a pretty difficult schedule to start. Healthy or not many of those games were not winnable. Despite the progress, they weren't going to beat teams like Brooklyn and the Sixers, they still have difficulty with teams like Tor and the Pistons even when healthy. There was going to be an adjustment as this is a new squad and mind you this team is still a very young team.

If the Magic keep this team together next year, they will definitely be fighting for a play in spot next year just on growth alone. The only thing that will keep them from a play in spot is if they overhaul the backcourt, as they should, and draft two rookies. That would only be a minor setback for greater things to come.

[jezzerinho]

I wish the NBA would officiate moving screens.

[Rainwater]

it's kind a hilarious system where 3rd worst team out of 15 can make playoffs.

But it kind a stopped 10 teams at once to tank so i guess it works.

There might be some positives, but I think the play ins are terrible. There were some years were some 7th and 8th seeds had no business being in the playoffs (those Vuc Teams), but somebody had to fill those spots. But now to allow two more underachieving teams is just ridiculous.

Another issue I have is seeing a young and up and coming team like Cleveland last year who earned their spot in the playoffs just to loss a fluke game to a garbage Hornets team. Then to watch that same Hornets team get blown out in the first round when Cleveland could have been far more competitive.

[pepe1991]

it's kind a hilarious system where 3rd worst team out of 15 can make playoffs.

But it kind a stopped 10 teams at once to tank so i guess it works.

There might be some positives, but I think the play ins are terrible. There were some years were some 7th and 8th seeds had no business being in the playoffs (those Vuc Teams), but somebody had to fill those spots. But now to allow two more underachieving teams is just ridiculous.

Another issue I have is seeing a young and up and coming team like Cleveland last year who earned their spot in the playoffs just to loss a fluke game to a garbage Hornets team. Then to watch that same Hornets team get blown out in the first round when Cleveland could have been far more competitive.

100% agree. One game tournaments allow bad teams to have hot hand and it's awful for teams that fought to get 45+ wins.

it also supports mediocrity. It's just mindblowing that 13 out of 30 teams are 4 games over or under .500.
You will have lot of Wizards teams. Teams that not good enough to win playoff series but it's fine by them and ownership won't tank so they will stay in this limbo for ages.

[Rainwater]

it's kind a hilarious system where 3rd worst team out of 15 can make playoffs.

But it kind a stopped 10 teams at once to tank so i guess it works.

There might be some positives, but I think the play ins are terrible. There were some years were some 7th and 8th seeds had no business being in the playoffs (those Vuc Teams), but somebody had to fill those spots. But now to allow two more underachieving teams is just ridiculous.

Another issue I have is seeing a young and up and coming team like Cleveland last year who earned their spot in the playoffs just to loss a fluke game to a garbage Hornets team. Then to watch that same Hornets team get blown out in the first round when Cleveland could have been far more competitive.

100% agree. One game tournaments allow bad teams to have hot hand and it's awful for teams that fought to get 45+ wins.

it also supports mediocrity. It's just mindblowing that 13 out of 30 teams are 4 games over or under .500.
You will have lot of Wizards teams. Teams that not good enough to win playoff series but it's fine by them and ownership won't tank so they will stay in this limbo for ages.

The mediocrity is a huge issue. I really don't follow the west all that much but in regard to the east I put Tor and Chicago on the same tier as the Wiz. Teams that should be tanking but have chosen to go the Magic route during the Vuc, AG, and Evan years and ride the mediocrity train and these are the teams taking up space in the play ins. I'd rather see the Pacers or the Magic in the play ins because their futures are bright. But if you are really being honest, what purpose would it even serve them if they likely wouldn't be competitive.

They should honestly do away with the system but I'm pretty certain it earns the NBA money, gives hope to those team's fans even if it's a false sense of hope, and like you said it prevents tanking.

[pepe1991]

There might be some positives, but I think the play ins are terrible. There were some years were some 7th and 8th seeds had no business being in the playoffs (those Vuc Teams), but somebody had to fill those spots. But now to allow two more underachieving teams is just ridiculous.

Another issue I have is seeing a young and up and coming team like Cleveland last year who earned their spot in the playoffs just to loss a fluke game to a garbage Hornets team. Then to watch that same Hornets team get blown out in the first round when Cleveland could have been far more competitive.

100% agree. One game tournaments allow bad teams to have hot hand and it's awful for teams that fought to get 45+ wins.

it also supports mediocrity. It's just mindblowing that 13 out of 30 teams are 4 games over or under .500.
You will have lot of Wizards teams. Teams that not good enough to win playoff series but it's fine by them and ownership won't tank so they will stay in this limbo for ages.

The mediocrity is a huge issue. I really don't follow the west all that much but in regard to the east I put Tor and Chicago on the same tier as the Wiz. Teams that should be tanking but have chosen to go the Magic route during the Vuc, AG, and Evan years and ride the mediocrity train and these are the teams taking up space in the play ins. I'd rather see the Pacers or the Magic in the play ins because their futures are bright. But if you are really being honest, what purpose would it even serve them if they likely wouldn't be competitive.

They should honestly do away with the system but I'm pretty certain it earns the NBA money, gives hope to those team's fans even if it's a false sense of hope, and like you said it prevents tanking.

NBA is in business of making money, they don't care.

NBA owners are also in business of making money so i guess mediocrity > rebuild in terms of profit, so they don't care either.


On west, Lakers , Clippers are also in need of at least retool, if not full blown rebuilds, but again, they won't do it, because their teams decisions aren't just basketball driven.
Raptors haven't rebuild since 2011. Before that 2002.

Bottom line is fact that bigger market teams simply don't want to rebuild because it's financial hit they don't need to take, knowing majority of rebuilding teams never win title, it's convenient excuse why.
Lakers did 1 rebuild, it was complete fiasco. They did what they normally do, buy off players for title and again it worked.
Raptors won title by holding 48 wins team for ages and bought off star rental.

In mean time, Kings, Magic, Wolves drafted in lottery 4000 times over 20 years and are yet to win playoff series. so it's not hard to see that aspect of rebuilding as well.

But yea, most teams will sustain mediocrity and defend it "fighting for playoffs" while being 15 games below .500

[Ralof]

always the same,they have a franchise player,uber talented offensive player,we have not,it's no one fault.

beside that,cause we have to win with defense,without Wendell we basically have no chance.
moe wagner is likable and could give you good offensive nights from the bench but damn,you pay him in a lot of possessions as a starter.

love f.wagner and houstan game as always,3s or going to rim,no mid range,just perfect essential player diet.

[basketballRob]

100% agree. One game tournaments allow bad teams to have hot hand and it's awful for teams that fought to get 45+ wins.

it also supports mediocrity. It's just mindblowing that 13 out of 30 teams are 4 games over or under .500.
You will have lot of Wizards teams. Teams that not good enough to win playoff series but it's fine by them and ownership won't tank so they will stay in this limbo for ages.

The mediocrity is a huge issue. I really don't follow the west all that much but in regard to the east I put Tor and Chicago on the same tier as the Wiz. Teams that should be tanking but have chosen to go the Magic route during the Vuc, AG, and Evan years and ride the mediocrity train and these are the teams taking up space in the play ins. I'd rather see the Pacers or the Magic in the play ins because their futures are bright. But if you are really being honest, what purpose would it even serve them if they likely wouldn't be competitive.

They should honestly do away with the system but I'm pretty certain it earns the NBA money, gives hope to those team's fans even if it's a false sense of hope, and like you said it prevents tanking.

NBA is in business of making money, they don't care.

NBA owners are also in business of making money so i guess mediocrity > rebuild in terms of profit, so they don't care either.


On west, Lakers , Clippers are also in need of at least retool, if not full blown rebuilds, but again, they won't do it, because their teams decisions aren't just basketball driven.
Raptors haven't rebuild since 2011. Before that 2002.

Bottom line is fact that bigger market teams simply don't want to rebuild because it's financial hit they don't need to take, knowing majority of rebuilding teams never win title, it's convenient excuse why.
Lakers did 1 rebuild, it was complete fiasco. They did what they normally do, buy off players for title and again it worked.
Raptors won title by holding 48 wins team for ages and bought off star rental.

In mean time, Kings, Magic, Wolves drafted in lottery 4000 times over 20 years and are yet to win playoff series. so it's not hard to see that aspect of rebuilding as well.

But yea, most teams will sustain mediocrity and defend it "fighting for playoffs" while being 15 games below .500

The Kings, Twolves, and Magic have all made drafting and trade blunders.

Golden State and the Bucks were perennial losers before. You do have to spend to sustain winning, and I'm not sure the Magic will do that. Even if you don't spend, you can make trades like Utah did.

The Celtics are good because they made a good trade and drafted well.



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[drsd]

We have a 64% chance of getting a pick 6 or better.

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What are the odds of getting a top four pick and keeping the Bulls pick? ~20% ish?

It is more than just multiplying the Magic at #5 going top 4 (which is about 52%) to Chicago going not-top-5 (~66%), as if Orlando goes top-4, that is a slot Chicago cannot have gone.

Without going through this correctly, it is about 35% (plus/minus a percentage point), assuming Chicago stays in the 6/7 range.

[eyriq]

We have a 64% chance of getting a pick 6 or better.

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What are the odds of getting a top four pick and keeping the Bulls pick? ~20% ish?

It is more than just multiplying the Magic at #5 going top 4 (which is about 52%) to Chicago going not-top-5 (~66%), as if Orlando goes top-4, that is a slot Chicago cannot have gone.

Without going through this correctly, it is about 35% (plus/minus a percentage point), assuming Chicago stays in the 6/7 range.

A real possibility

[basketballRob]

What are the odds of getting a top four pick and keeping the Bulls pick? ~20% ish?

It is more than just multiplying the Magic at #5 going top 4 (which is about 52%) to Chicago going not-top-5 (~66%), as if Orlando goes top-4, that is a slot Chicago cannot have gone.

Without going through this correctly, it is about 35% (plus/minus a percentage point), assuming Chicago stays in the 6/7 range.

A real possibility

https://youtu.be/wGdhc9k07Ms

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