Better defensive core: Kidd/Pippen/Mutombo or KG/Olajuwon

[Tomtolbert]

Which core would yield the better defensive team, Kidd/Pippen/Mutombo or KG/Olajuwon?

Assumptions:
Defensive peaks
Good health
Remainder of each roster filled with average players
Disregard offense

[Cavsfansince84]

It should be the trio pretty easily imo.

[No-more-rings]

If we assume Mutumbo is a wash with one of Hakeem/KG, it’s doubtful to me that Hakeem or KG has more impact than Kidd/Pippen combined, especially when you say fill out with average defenders, that means you get an average perimeter defenders vs Kidd and Pippen.

[parsnips33]

I wonder if this is one that would depend on era

[Colbinii]

I have some reservations about Mutombo in todays game.

KG/Hakeem.

[parsnips33]

I have some reservations about Mutombo in todays game.

KG/Hakeem.

Surely you could get away with having him in a hard drop with Kidd/Pippen chasing over screens/tightening the floor when off-ball

[Colbinii]

I have some reservations about Mutombo in todays game.

KG/Hakeem.

Surely you could get away with having him in a hard drop with Kidd/Pippen chasing over screens/tightening the floor when off-ball

With a Chink in the Armor, there is always a weakness to exploit.

Of course it would be great, but I trust a KG/Hakeem duo to better defend most modern sets than one with Mutombo.

[dygaction]

Group of 3 can guarantee 2 elite defenders on the court all the time. Peak Mutombo has an argument to be the best defender out of all 5 anyways

[Dutchball97]

Perimeter defense isn't as valuable as interior protection but it's still necessary for a great defense, especially today. KG/Hakeem would produce a great regular season defense but I could definitely see them being exploited a bit in the play-offs if there's nobody on the team who can reliably guard the other team's lead guard. I just don't think they'd match up well in a league that has been tilting more and more towards perimeter play despite the top few guys still mostly being bigs/big wings.

[Jaivl]

If we assume Mutumbo is a wash with one of Hakeem/KG, it’s doubtful to me that Hakeem or KG has more impact than Kidd/Pippen combined, especially when you say fill out with average defenders, that means you get an average perimeter defenders vs Kidd and Pippen.

Taking era considerations aside, hence considering Mutombo a wash with Hakeem, I'd say KG is about equal to Kidd + Pippen.

KG/Hakeem would produce a great regular season defense but I could definitely see them being exploited a bit in the play-offs if there's nobody on the team who can reliably guard the other team's lead guard.

b-but you just mentioned Kevin Garnett...

[Dutchball97]

If we assume Mutumbo is a wash with one of Hakeem/KG, it’s doubtful to me that Hakeem or KG has more impact than Kidd/Pippen combined, especially when you say fill out with average defenders, that means you get an average perimeter defenders vs Kidd and Pippen.

Taking era considerations aside, hence considering Mutombo a wash with Hakeem, I'd say KG is about equal to Kidd + Pippen.

KG/Hakeem would produce a great regular season defense but I could definitely see them being exploited a bit in the play-offs if there's nobody on the team who can reliably guard the other team's lead guard.

b-but you just mentioned Kevin Garnett...

KG is versatile enough to guard wings at least but i don't see him guarding someone like Curry nearly as well as Pippen or Kidd could, let alone those 2 together.

[OhayoKD]

If we assume Mutumbo is a wash with one of Hakeem/KG, it’s doubtful to me that Hakeem or KG has more impact than Kidd/Pippen combined, especially when you say fill out with average defenders, that means you get an average perimeter defenders vs Kidd and Pippen.

Taking era considerations aside, hence considering Mutombo a wash with Hakeem, I'd say KG is about equal to Kidd + Pippen.

KG/Hakeem would produce a great regular season defense but I could definitely see them being exploited a bit in the play-offs if there's nobody on the team who can reliably guard the other team's lead guard.

b-but you just mentioned Kevin Garnett...

Feel you're overselling Kidd here. Toss in a Gary Payton and I think we might have parity

[Jaivl]

If we assume Mutumbo is a wash with one of Hakeem/KG, it’s doubtful to me that Hakeem or KG has more impact than Kidd/Pippen combined, especially when you say fill out with average defenders, that means you get an average perimeter defenders vs Kidd and Pippen.

Taking era considerations aside, hence considering Mutombo a wash with Hakeem, I'd say KG is about equal to Kidd + Pippen.

KG/Hakeem would produce a great regular season defense but I could definitely see them being exploited a bit in the play-offs if there's nobody on the team who can reliably guard the other team's lead guard.

b-but you just mentioned Kevin Garnett...

Feel you're overselling Kidd here. Toss in a Gary Payton and I think we might have parity

Ehhh, I'm very comfortable with Kidd > Payton defensively actually (I'm very comfortable with Kidd as the GOAT PG defender overall).

GOAT caliber guard + GOAT caliber wing = GOAT caliber big (?)

[Dutchball97]

Taking era considerations aside, hence considering Mutombo a wash with Hakeem, I'd say KG is about equal to Kidd + Pippen.


b-but you just mentioned Kevin Garnett...

Feel you're overselling Kidd here. Toss in a Gary Payton and I think we might have parity

Ehhh, I'm very comfortable with Kidd > Payton defensively actually (I'm very comfortable with Kidd as the GOAT PG defender overall).

GOAT caliber guard + GOAT caliber wing = GOAT caliber big (?)

I think that equation broadly makes sense. Going by PI RAPM the best bigs (especially KG and Mutombo) grade out at around +6-7 on the defensive end, while the best defensive wing peaks in the databall era are around +4.5 (Iggy and MWP are around this level at their best), the highest rated defensive guards I can see here peak around +4 but those are generally outliers that the players in question never come close to again so +3 (which is where Kidd sits around) seems fair so you'd get 6-7 vs 4.5 + 3, which would be a small advavntage for the guard + wing duo over the big although I'm not sure if simply adding the numbers up gets the most accurate result.

EDIT: for some extra info, LEBRON paints a pretty similar picture although the numbers are a bit lower across the board. Top defensive bigs like Gobert and Dwight can get up to +5 on the defensive side. Best wing defenders like young Kawhi and Tony Allen peak around +3.5 and some of the top guard defenders like Dejounte Murray and Caruso can get up to +2.5. Although Murray and Caruso are the same height as Tony Allen I still think they're not quiet the same type of defensive archetype, just like how Dray is more of a big than a wing on defense despite being only 6'6. If Tony Allen does count as more of a guard defender than a wing I wouldn't mind looking at him as a non-respresentative outlier since I see him as the very best defensive 2-guard in NBA history and he's at least almost an entire point higher than the next guard on the list. In any case here you'd also get a similar comparison of 5 vs 3.5 + 2.5 with a slight advantage to the duo that could be pretty easily overcome with only a slightly above average defender next to the big.

In the specific comparison in this thread I think an important factor is both teams already having a GOAT level defensive big so regardless of whether KG or the Pippen/Kidd duo generate more defensive impact in a vacuum, I think adding a high level guard and wing defender to a great defensive big is going to bring better results in most cases than pairing up two great defensive bigs with average at best perimeter support.

[dygaction]

Taking era considerations aside, hence considering Mutombo a wash with Hakeem, I'd say KG is about equal to Kidd + Pippen.


b-but you just mentioned Kevin Garnett...

Feel you're overselling Kidd here. Toss in a Gary Payton and I think we might have parity

Ehhh, I'm very comfortable with Kidd > Payton defensively actually (I'm very comfortable with Kidd as the GOAT PG defender overall).

GOAT caliber guard + GOAT caliber wing = GOAT caliber big (?)

The situation here is GOAT caliber big GOAT + caliber guard + GOAT caliber wing > GOAT caliber big + a second GOAT caliber big

[Redmoon]

Trio’s defensive versatility is too valuable to not pick. Kidd/pippen on the perimeter is devastating. Also 3 good defenders will cover more ground than 2 good defenders I think that’s key assuming the rest of their teams are a wash.