2023 Miami Heat Regular Season Thread - Westbrook and Love edition

[SA37]

To assume he's done developing is a bit of a stretch IMO. He's 23 years old. Look at the leap Bam took this year and he's 25. Jermaine O'Neal spent four years as a part time rotation player in Portland before finding his footing in the league, Kyle Lowry wasn't much more than a reserve for a lot of his early years, and Jimmy was just a defensive wing with no real offensive game and we all know how he's turned out.

I think it's fair to say that Tyler needs to really push himself to be better and that he's at a career crossroads, but I don't think it's fair to just assume he's a finished product. I also think he should be available in trade, along with Lowry's expiring contract, Jovic (only if need be) our 2023 first, 2028 first, and 2030 first for whatever star player we can get to put next to Jimmy and Bam...

My concern with Herro is he doesn't seem to have a knack for drawing fouls and consistently getting to the line. I am not asking him to average 10ftpg, but I think he has got to get around 5ftpg. He doesn't seem to be able to get to the bucket and get himself easy shots, and I am not sure either of these things is going to change.

The other thing is, I think Herro is a reasonably replaceable player. Is he really much better than, say, Jordan Clarkson, Buddy Hield, or Gary Trent?

I could see Herro getting traded in the summer for VanVleet. I would hope if Beal asked to be traded Miami would pass simply because of that insane contract. I doubt Lillard becomes available, but Riley would offer everything under the sun to get him.

[twix2500]

I think many get confuse with who Herro is. Herro is not a small guard, Lillard or McCollum. He is 6'6, that is a big guard, that is Jordan/Kobe hieght. Physically he doesn't have the advantage to beat smaller guards off the dribble which is one reason why he struggle against the press. He is playing against smaller guard. Spo tries to many times at the top of the key in halfcourt settings. Spo should utilize plays that give him more of an advantage with his hieght.

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[AirP.]

^Some scorers are just better as 6th men. I honestly wouldn't be totally opposed to maybe starting Duncan, and have Tyler reprise his role as supersub. It's not like we have to play Duncan starters minutes anyway, and having Tyler/Dipo/Caleb off the bench is not a bad deal all things considered.

PG: Gabe
SG: Duncan
SF: Jimmy
PF: Love
C: Bam

Bench: Tyler/Dipo/Caleb/Strus/Zeller

The issue is that Miami gave him starter money and quite honestly, I don't like seeing him out there in the closing lineups because of lack of defense, same goes with Duncan. Strus is about the only 3pt shooter who is around just acceptable on defense to have out there. If you're giving out big money, if a player is negative on one side of the court, don't pay them big money unless they are DOMINATE on the other side of the court.

DEFENSE IS NOT THE PROBLEM, WE CANNOT SCORE.


Dead last in 3 pt shooting talking about more defense.

I'm glad you brought that up!

But Miami added Herro to the starting lineup! Maybe that's the issue? I've mentioned Lowry's stats being good without Herro playing this season and then being terrible as Herro takes so many possessions making Lowry a short SG. Herro hijacks the offense and with that, less ability for other players to get into the offensive flow of the game and Herro has so many possessions where he dances with the ball only to throw it to a teammate with 5-3 seconds left on the shot clock and having to put up a terrible shot. If Miami would let a PG, Butler or Bam run the offense, utilize Herro as a deadly catch and shoot player vs high volume chucker it probably would help Miami greatly.

Calculated ORTG for this season.

Butler 131
Bam 116
Caleb 113
Lowry 112
Strus 111
HERRO 107 <- Shoots the most on the team.
Vincent 101
Highsmith 101
Oladipo 99 (very disappointing)

I've been talking about this for multiple years now and are not surprised at all with how much worse the offense has looked this year with Herro in the starting lineup, it's the reason I didn't put my thoughts down about season predictions this year because I didn't want to argue even more than I have this year.

To me it's disgusting to try to force Herro to be a thing when you have Butler and Bam on your team and those 2 have led this team to the finals and game 7 of the ECF the last 2 of 3 years. When I see comments of think better then Booker or Riley laugh about defense with Herro because of his offense, or even making Herro untouchable in a Michell trade, maybe it's time to bring in new decision makers in the FO.

[SoFlaKingReal]

Lowry is just awful….no need to shift the blame away from him. This team needs more accountability, not less. Lowry isn’t **** because Herro is starting lol. He’s **** because he’s old and fat.

[SoFlaKingReal]

idk why it’s constantly a big mystery to some on here why Bams usage is so inconsistent. It’s pretty obvious to me, he can’t really score from outside 15 feet or so.

What players out there are dominating usage % without taking a single 3PA?

[AirP.]

Lowry is just awful….no need to shift the blame away from him. This team needs more accountability, not less. Lowry isn’t **** because Herro is starting lol. He’s **** because he’s old and fat.

Then why was he good the 8 game stretch when Herro and also had other starters were out where he started with backups this year? He got to play his normal role.

The stats for Lowry for that 8 game stretch this season...
8 games, 38.3 min, 16.6 pts, 6.8 ast, 5.5 reb, 3.5 TO, .379% 3pt% on 7.3 attempts per game.



Roles matter.

[Kobewade11]

DEFENSE IS NOT THE PROBLEM, WE CANNOT SCORE.


Dead last in 3 pt shooting talking about more defense.

Yep. And when the two best players are non factors shooting the ball there is an inordinate burden placed on the rest of the lineup. We’re the only playoff team in the East that has to deal with this dynamic. Cleveland has non shooters in their lineup, but not their best players. Boston has a guy that hasnt attempted a 3, but he’s the 5th best player in their lineup. Every day we get a new hit piece on Herro but reality is there is a very short list of pkayers that could overcome this. Come playoff time we’ll be relying on Jimmy to leave earth again or for role players to play above their averages to compensate.

[AirP.]

DEFENSE IS NOT THE PROBLEM, WE CANNOT SCORE.


Dead last in 3 pt shooting talking about more defense.

Every day we get a new hit piece on Herro but reality is there is a very short list of pkayers that could overcome this. Come playoff time we’ll be relying on Jimmy to leave earth again or for role players to play above their averages to compensate.

Herro hijacks the offense(he's a volume scorer, not really a playmaker), he dribbles around looking for his own shot or that pick and roll with Bam which equates to 1.3 assists a game, takes a shot himself or throws it late to someone else to get a shot up with shot clock almost up. If you look at where he's getting his assists, he gets 1.3 asts a game going to Bam, the next highest person that gets assists from Herro is Strus and Martin at .5 a game. Herro just takes offensive players out of the flow of offense, when he came off the bench when the team's offense was bad it helps Miami greatly when he looked for his shot to jumpstart the team, but just in the normal flow of the game it hurts the offensive flow for everyone but him.
https://www.nba.com/stats/player/1629639/passes-dash?dir=D&sort=AST

I'm not arguing Herro is trash, I'm saying he's playing the wrong role, he's a catch and shoot guy who doesn't shy away from the big moments, not a playmaker for the offense.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Holy **** the goalpost moving for Tyler is unlike anything I’ve seen for a player who just flat out isn’t anything special and is very limited and NONE of this has been backed by anything of substance, it’s just constant deflecting.

[MiamiSun]

I don't disagree but I also don't agree.

Herro is misused, but I think he should be an off the bench point a minute guy. He needs to put stress on the opposing defense after the starting unit has already tired them out. All of this dribbling and looking for his shot is very good in the context of the entire game, but the problem is when this is how we start the game.

If we had Dipo starting for example, and we executed our offensive sets better, then at with 6 minutes left in the 1st Qt you bring in Herro to run the opposing starters down until the end of the quarter.

IMO it is no coincidence that this team has struggled once Herro became a starter.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

In the game Herro has played this season without Jimmy and Bam he had 14 points on 19 shots, 0-8 from 3

We’re really out here trying to start some sort of narrative that Herro is overcoming some unreal adversity leading to his subpar play

[3ammy3uck3ts]

In the 12 games without Jimmy this season Herro is averaging 18 shots a night and putting up the same as his season numbers on worse efficiency shooting 31% from 3.

So there you have Jimmy swapped for a “shooter” and Herro becomes less efficient but Jimmy and Bam apparently
Make it too hard on Herro……

[3ammy3uck3ts]

The issue is that Miami gave him starter money and quite honestly, I don't like seeing him out there in the closing lineups because of lack of defense, same goes with Duncan. Strus is about the only 3pt shooter who is around just acceptable on defense to have out there. If you're giving out big money, if a player is negative on one side of the court, don't pay them big money unless they are DOMINATE on the other side of the court.

DEFENSE IS NOT THE PROBLEM, WE CANNOT SCORE.


Dead last in 3 pt shooting talking about more defense.

I'm glad you brought that up!

But Miami added Herro to the starting lineup! Maybe that's the issue? I've mentioned Lowry's stats being good without Herro playing this season and then being terrible as Herro takes so many possessions making Lowry a short SG. Herro hijacks the offense and with that, less ability for other players to get into the offensive flow of the game and Herro has so many possessions where he dances with the ball only to throw it to a teammate with 5-3 seconds left on the shot clock and having to put up a terrible shot. If Miami would let a PG, Butler or Bam run the offense, utilize Herro as a deadly catch and shoot player vs high volume chucker it probably would help Miami greatly.

Calculated ORTG for this season.

Butler 131
Bam 116
Caleb 113
Lowry 112
Strus 111
HERRO 107 <- Shoots the most on the team.
Vincent 101
Highsmith 101
Oladipo 99 (very disappointing)

I've been talking about this for multiple years now and are not surprised at all with how much worse the offense has looked this year with Herro in the starting lineup, it's the reason I didn't put my thoughts down about season predictions this year because I didn't want to argue even more than I have this year.

To me it's disgusting to try to force Herro to be a thing when you have Butler and Bam on your team and those 2 have led this team to the finals and game 7 of the ECF the last 2 of 3 years. When I see comments of think better then Booker or Riley laugh about defense with Herro because of his offense, or even making Herro untouchable in a Michell trade, maybe it's time to bring in new decision makers in the FO.

You’re 100% right here

[Kobewade11]

Herro hijacks the offense(he's a volume scorer, not really a playmaker), he dribbles around looking for his own shot or that pick and roll with Bam which equates to 1.3 assists a game, takes a shot himself or throws it late to someone else to get a shot up with shot clock almost up. If you look at where he's getting his assists, he gets 1.3 asts a game going to Bam, the next highest person that gets assists from Herro is Strus and Martin at .5 a game. Herro just takes offensive players out of the flow of offense, when he came off the bench when the team's offense was bad it helps Miami greatly when he looked for his shot to jumpstart the team, but just in the normal flow of the game it hurts the offensive flow for everyone but him.
https://www.nba.com/stats/player/1629639/passes-dash?dir=D&sort=AST

I'm not arguing Herro is trash, I'm saying he's playing the wrong role, he's a catch and shoot guy who doesn't shy away from the big moments, not a playmaker for the offense.

Ok

[ShulaDon92]

I don't disagree but I also don't agree.

Herro is misused, but I think he should be an off the bench point a minute guy. He needs to put stress on the opposing defense after the starting unit has already tired them out. All of this dribbling and looking for his shot is very good in the context of the entire game, but the problem is when this is how we start the game.

If we had Dipo starting for example, and we executed our offensive sets better, then at with 6 minutes left in the 1st Qt you bring in Herro to run the opposing starters down until the end of the quarter.

IMO it is no coincidence that this team has struggled once Herro became a starter.

I agree Herro is misused. He should be spamming threes and playing like Curry. This current incarnation is too streaky and way too inefficient. He looks like he's improving but with where he's at now he looks like he will hit a wall soon unless he changes his shot selection.

Career Projection: An average player at best right now. Clutch shooter, though.

[SoFlaKingReal]

This 8 game stretch by Lowry is mythical at this point lmaoooo

The guy has a bad attitude and even worse conditioning.

Herro has enough issues, no reason to blame Lowry on him too haha

[DayofMourning]

Dipo has always been fairly average offensively. I didnt understand the hype with Orlando when he was drafted. He was a JAG.

However, he took the lead with Indy, the stats went up offensively and his defense was nice. That 1.5 year span changed a lot of peoples minds.

A little inaccurate perception IMO.

[AirP.]

This 8 game stretch by Lowry is mythical at this point lmaoooo

The guy has a bad attitude and even worse conditioning.

Herro has enough issues, no reason to blame Lowry on him too haha

I actually get why he may have a bad attitude, if you had multiple teams interested in you for big money you get signed and then have his role diminished by a volume shooter like Herro, Herro should be playing off Lowry, Butler and Bam getting a high volume of 3s and knocking them down vs dancing with the ball and taking most of his shots from 2pt range.

For having bad conditioning and being fat he was able to give Miami a 50-minute game this year. I think it's beyond ridiculous to sign Lowry then turn him into a small SG much like it was stupid to pay Robinson and then take away DHOs from him that he feasted off of, Miami could have gotten E.Gordon to do that role at a cheaper cost. There's a lot of questionable signings and what it looks like is that Spoelstra and the FO aren't on the same page, not sure why Spoelstra would want Robinson paid 90 mil and then quit using him in less than a season.

[Tony15]

To defend the FO a little bit....they were probably projecting with Herro. Unfortunately for us, they were wrong & it makes me wonder who's really making decisions on personnel. The Pat Riley I grew up observing wouldn't have hesitated in making Herro available for a sure thing in Donovan Mitchell (not to say he's without flaws, but we see how he's elevated CLE).

[3ammy3uck3ts]

To defend the FO a little bit....they were probably projecting with Herro. Unfortunately for us, they were wrong & it makes me wonder who's really making decisions on personnel. The Pat Riley I grew up observing wouldn't have hesitated in making Herro available for a sure thing in Donovan Mitchell (not to say he's without flaws, but we see how he's elevated CLE).

There is so much data over the years to show why you don’t even hesitate to include Herro in a deal for Mitchell. That was a literal no brainer and you’re contending for the next 8-10 years. You transition out of the Mitchell Jimmy Bam era in 2025 or 2026 and jump right into the next “big 3” era with whatever one of Bam and Mitchell’s boys want to team up with them