Game #67: GRIZZ @ Clippers Sunday 3/5 7 PM—ESPN

[clipperlover]

Spoiler:

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Russ looks bad until you see how everybody else looks worse.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/traditional?PerMode=PerGame&SeasonSegment=Post%20All-Star&TeamID=1610612746&dir=A&sort=PLUS_MINUS

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TMann gets a chance to see how Westbrook prepares which is good for TMann

[Scoundreldays]

Morris must have some serious dirt on Ty Lue. Treats him like he is an old super star that won us a championship 5 years ago lol

fwiw i do think it's just an honest mix of wanting to placate a vet, concern over the rest of the locker room when that vet is demoted, a complete misevaluation of talent/skills, and a misevaluation of how those players fit into his vision.

particularly for the last one, he might just think morris enables the key guys on spacing (which he kinda does) and because he's a scorer he makes for a better offense (wrong), he's a near automatic bucket in the post so that also makes for a better offense (right and wrong), because he's big and tough he can defend (very wrong), rebounding's not a huge deal with the starters because kawhi/PG/zubac are all you need (wrong) so he's simply just a better fit than covington for the starters and better in all facets, or perhaps close/equal on defense (joke). i mean that's just my own speculation but if i'll just say i'd put good money on most of that being what he actually believes.

Like I said a few weeks back when we first signed Westbrook. You can not start Morris with Westbrook because Russ also makes some questionable defensive decisions even though he tries hard. Having both at the same time is taking a huge gamble. If it was still Mann starting I'd still want Roco or Batum over Morris but I could atleast tolerate Morris starting.

[esqtvd]

Luckily we held on and broke the losing streak. 1st game of a 9 out of 10 at home with the lone road game at Portland.

After 6 games in 10 nights, we now have at least two days off between games over the next 4 games. Should lend good time to practice and get healthier. Time to get a 10 game winning streak going heading into the only road trip outside Pacific Standard Time remaining.

At some point, we the RoCo over Morris situation will come to fruition. At this point, I hope Lue is playing the long game and saving RoCo to use a a "secret weapon" for the playoffs.

RoCo was injured and then got COVID and has been behind all year. He also goes through massive slumps. We can only hope he wants Covington on the up when we hit the playoffs.

Injury/Covid has nothing to do with the minutes issue unless Lue is somehow punishing RoCo for a disagreement about the usefulness of masks/vaccines. Lue is not trying to give RoCo minutes. In his mind, Morris is more valuable. I can only hope that as we approach the end of the season, we see RoCo, PG and Kawhi on the court together. RoCo just does a little bit of everything. RoCo has also been a 1st Team all-NBA Defensive Player, so those 3 on the court together could wreak some havoc.

Some Comparison stats:
RoCo is a full 2 pts better than Morris in PER. Morris is nearly 4 pts under the league average.
https://insider.espn.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/league/west/page/3
PER: Player Efficiency Rating is the overall rating of a player's per-minute statistical production. The league average is 15.00 every season.

RoCo achieves at least a Rb, Ast, Stl, Blk and point in 18% of his games played. Morris does the same in 7% (and with significantly more minutes). When we take it to 4 of 5 categories, RoCo is at 60.5% while Morris is at 54%, but with an average of 10 more MPG.

RoCo is shooting the Corner 3 at 38% while Morris is at 31%.

RoCo is a better career 3pt shooter than Morris.

RoCo was 14th in the NBA in total stls and stls/gm last season. He was also #14 in Total blks and #13 in Blcks/gm. He was also 18th in Defensive Rebounds. (While still getting 6 minutes less per game than Morris).

Morris has no type of accolades on an NBA level.

I was hating on Marcus before it was even cool. For years.

I would probably make the move--just for the sake of making a move. Morris has done nothing all year. But RoCo WAS injured then DID get COVID. He has been merely adequate in spot duty so far. Over the last 8 games, Covington is minus-3.0 [so is Mann]; Morris minus-0.6. Over the last 15 games, Morris plus+2.4, Covington and Mann about minus-3.4.

At 34, Batum can't carry a full load. He's been very up and down all year. He will get his 24 minutes in the playoffs and probably more. But he is maxed already. Morris is NOT taking minutes from Batum.

This is Ty's reasoning: Morris has shown in the past that he's even worse off the bench. Yank him and you lose a player completely.
Once he demotes Senior there is probably no going back.

And we're already a mess trying to work Westbrook in, and Eric Gordon has been getting big minutes with Norman Powell out. I see Ty's reticence to add one more variable to the mix during a losing streak. Integrating Westbrook is the problem, and Robert Covington is not the solution.

RoCo could have made it easy on Ty by playing himself into the rotation. He hasn't. RoCo has the worst plus/minus on the team over the last 15 games. The worst. Our 'eye test' brigade may hate plus/minus but the scoreboard doesn't lie.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/traditional?LastNGames=15&TeamID=1610612746&dir=A&sort=PLUS_MINUS

[NickP]

Spoiler:

The +/- strikes back!

Baiting

[Scoundreldays]

RoCo was injured and then got COVID and has been behind all year. He also goes through massive slumps. We can only hope he wants Covington on the up when we hit the playoffs.

Injury/Covid has nothing to do with the minutes issue unless Lue is somehow punishing RoCo for a disagreement about the usefulness of masks/vaccines. Lue is not trying to give RoCo minutes. In his mind, Morris is more valuable. I can only hope that as we approach the end of the season, we see RoCo, PG and Kawhi on the court together. RoCo just does a little bit of everything. RoCo has also been a 1st Team all-NBA Defensive Player, so those 3 on the court together could wreak some havoc.

Some Comparison stats:
RoCo is a full 2 pts better than Morris in PER. Morris is nearly 4 pts under the league average.
https://insider.espn.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/league/west/page/3
PER: Player Efficiency Rating is the overall rating of a player's per-minute statistical production. The league average is 15.00 every season.

RoCo achieves at least a Rb, Ast, Stl, Blk and point in 18% of his games played. Morris does the same in 7% (and with significantly more minutes). When we take it to 4 of 5 categories, RoCo is at 60.5% while Morris is at 54%, but with an average of 10 more MPG.

RoCo is shooting the Corner 3 at 38% while Morris is at 31%.

RoCo is a better career 3pt shooter than Morris.

RoCo was 14th in the NBA in total stls and stls/gm last season. He was also #14 in Total blks and #13 in Blcks/gm. He was also 18th in Defensive Rebounds. (While still getting 6 minutes less per game than Morris).

Morris has no type of accolades on an NBA level.

I was hating on Marcus before it was even cool. For years.

I would probably make the move--just for the sake of making a move. Morris has done nothing all year. But RoCo WAS injured then DID get COVID. He has been merely adequate in spot duty so far. Over the last 8 games, Covington is minus-3.0 [so is Mann]; Morris minus-0.6. Over the last 15 games, Morris plus+2.4, Covington and Mann about minus-3.4.

At 34, Batum can't carry a full load. He's been very up and down all year. He will get his 24 minutes in the playoffs and probably more. But he is maxed already. Morris is NOT taking minutes from Batum.

This is Ty's reasoning: Morris has shown in the past that he's even worse off the bench. Yank him and you lose a player completely.
Once he demotes Senior there is probably no going back.

And we're already a mess trying to work Westbrook in, and Eric Gordon has been getting big minutes with Norman Powell out. I see Ty's reticence to add one more variable to the mix during a losing streak. Integrating Westbrook is the problem, and Robert Covington is not the solution.

RoCo could have made it easy on Ty by playing himself into the rotation. He hasn't. RoCo has the worst plus/minus on the team over the last 15 games. The worst. Our 'eye test' brigade may hate plus/minus but the scoreboard doesn't lie.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/traditional?LastNGames=15&TeamID=1610612746&dir=A&sort=PLUS_MINUS

My reasoning is we need to bring defense into the lineup. Morris provides decent offense at times but 0 defense. Our offense since all the acquisitions has been pretty good but our defense has tanked. The starting lineup has plenty of offense but I think it would be more beneficial to add some defense especially if Russ is going to start.

I'm still of the opinion you can't have Russ AND Morris start in the starting lineup. It doesn't necessarily have to be Roco.

[esqtvd]

Injury/Covid has nothing to do with the minutes issue unless Lue is somehow punishing RoCo for a disagreement about the usefulness of masks/vaccines. Lue is not trying to give RoCo minutes. In his mind, Morris is more valuable. I can only hope that as we approach the end of the season, we see RoCo, PG and Kawhi on the court together. RoCo just does a little bit of everything. RoCo has also been a 1st Team all-NBA Defensive Player, so those 3 on the court together could wreak some havoc.

Some Comparison stats:
RoCo is a full 2 pts better than Morris in PER. Morris is nearly 4 pts under the league average.
https://insider.espn.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/league/west/page/3
PER: Player Efficiency Rating is the overall rating of a player's per-minute statistical production. The league average is 15.00 every season.

RoCo achieves at least a Rb, Ast, Stl, Blk and point in 18% of his games played. Morris does the same in 7% (and with significantly more minutes). When we take it to 4 of 5 categories, RoCo is at 60.5% while Morris is at 54%, but with an average of 10 more MPG.

RoCo is shooting the Corner 3 at 38% while Morris is at 31%.

RoCo is a better career 3pt shooter than Morris.

RoCo was 14th in the NBA in total stls and stls/gm last season. He was also #14 in Total blks and #13 in Blcks/gm. He was also 18th in Defensive Rebounds. (While still getting 6 minutes less per game than Morris).

Morris has no type of accolades on an NBA level.

I was hating on Marcus before it was even cool. For years.

I would probably make the move--just for the sake of making a move. Morris has done nothing all year. But RoCo WAS injured then DID get COVID. He has been merely adequate in spot duty so far. Over the last 8 games, Covington is minus-3.0 [so is Mann]; Morris minus-0.6. Over the last 15 games, Morris plus+2.4, Covington and Mann about minus-3.4.

At 34, Batum can't carry a full load. He's been very up and down all year. He will get his 24 minutes in the playoffs and probably more. But he is maxed already. Morris is NOT taking minutes from Batum.

This is Ty's reasoning: Morris has shown in the past that he's even worse off the bench. Yank him and you lose a player completely.
Once he demotes Senior there is probably no going back.

And we're already a mess trying to work Westbrook in, and Eric Gordon has been getting big minutes with Norman Powell out. I see Ty's reticence to add one more variable to the mix during a losing streak. Integrating Westbrook is the problem, and Robert Covington is not the solution.

RoCo could have made it easy on Ty by playing himself into the rotation. He hasn't. RoCo has the worst plus/minus on the team over the last 15 games. The worst. Our 'eye test' brigade may hate plus/minus but the scoreboard doesn't lie.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/traditional?LastNGames=15&TeamID=1610612746&dir=A&sort=PLUS_MINUS

My reasoning is we need to bring defense into the lineup. Morris provides decent offense at times but 0 defense. Our offense since all the acquisitions has been pretty good but our defense has tanked. The starting lineup has plenty of offense but I think it would be more beneficial to add some defense especially if Russ is going to start.

I'm still of the opinion you can't have Russ AND Morris start in the starting lineup. It doesn't necessarily have to be Roco.

Nico Batum will get as many minutes as he can physically handle at age 34. It's who finishes that matters. Batum is first choice: first choice as the starter and first choice as the finisher. I don't think there's ANY disagreement about that.

Ty Lue is dealing with picking the least worst of bad options:

If you demote Morris, and if RoCo doesn't start, Kawhi has to be the PF. I don't think he wants to be the PF, just like PG doesn't want to be the PG. And RoCo has NOT played himself into the starting lineup--or even the rotation. And frankly Mann has not handled HIS demotion well either. His percentages are good but his production isn't.

I don't expect Morris will handle his demotion well either--as a Clipper he's been a BAD bench player. If you hate him now you're gonna hate him even more if you throw him into the second unit with guys he never played with.

This team's only hope is that Westbrook-George-Kawhi somehow clicks. And Powell has to get it together once and for all as the 6th man. Everything and everyone else has to be calculated backwards from that.

Ty isn't the captain blithely steering us into the iceberg--he's the captain down in the engine room bailing water.

[esqtvd]

Spoiler:

The +/- strikes back!

any moron can turn on a TV

Personal Attack

[MartinToVaught]

If I was constantly on the wrong side of every argument dating back years, I'd eventually do some self-reflection instead of lashing out and calling everybody else "morons," "vultures," and other assorted buzzwords. Just saying.

[esqtvd]

If I was constantly on the wrong side of every argument, I'd eventually do some self-reflection instead of just lashing out and calling everybody else "morons," "vultures," and other assorted buzzwords. Just saying.

did you enjoy the comeback win last night?

Spoiler:

Clippers take the lead 126-123.

Can we have our game thread back now? You can have it back if we lose, ok???

Baiting

[NickP]

Spoiler:

If I was constantly on the wrong side of every argument dating back years, I'd eventually do some self-reflection instead of lashing out and calling everybody else "morons," "vultures," and other assorted buzzwords. Just saying.

There was a time when I gave this guy a slight benefit of doubt but he's been doing what he's accusing others of doing. Looks like my one line posts are getting under his thin skin. Resulting in silly personal attacks.

Baiting

[esqtvd]

Spoiler:

There was a time when I gave this guy a slight benefit of doubt but he's been doing what he's accusing others of doing. Looks like my one line posts are getting under his thin skin. Resulting in silly personal attacks.

Spoiler:

I thought we had a deal. You and your pals get to ruin every game thread until we win. WE WON. May we please enjoy it for 10 minutes?

If I was constantly on the wrong side of every argument, I'd eventually do some self-reflection instead of just lashing out and calling everybody else "morons," "vultures," and other assorted buzzwords. Just saying.

did you enjoy the comeback win last night?

Clippers take the lead 126-123.

Can we have our game thread back now? You can have it back if we lose, ok???

Spoiler:

Then you need to F88* off until the next one with your same shttt over and over

Morris sucks.
Mann is the future.
Westbrook is poison.
Start RoCo.
Fire Ty.
WE GET IT WE GET IT.

WE GET IT.

Inappropriate
Baiting
Backseat Moderating
__________________________________________________________________

The adults are trying to have a conversation here. Please stop interfering with the discussion? WE GET IT.

I was hating on Marcus before it was even cool. For years.

I would probably make the move--just for the sake of making a move. Morris has done nothing all year. But RoCo WAS injured then DID get COVID. He has been merely adequate in spot duty so far. Over the last 8 games, Covington is minus-3.0 [so is Mann]; Morris minus-0.6. Over the last 15 games, Morris plus+2.4, Covington and Mann about minus-3.4.

At 34, Batum can't carry a full load. He's been very up and down all year. He will get his 24 minutes in the playoffs and probably more. But he is maxed already. Morris is NOT taking minutes from Batum.

This is Ty's reasoning: Morris has shown in the past that he's even worse off the bench. Yank him and you lose a player completely.
Once he demotes Senior there is probably no going back.

And we're already a mess trying to work Westbrook in, and Eric Gordon has been getting big minutes with Norman Powell out. I see Ty's reticence to add one more variable to the mix during a losing streak. Integrating Westbrook is the problem, and Robert Covington is not the solution.

RoCo could have made it easy on Ty by playing himself into the rotation. He hasn't. RoCo has the worst plus/minus on the team over the last 15 games. The worst. Our 'eye test' brigade may hate plus/minus but the scoreboard doesn't lie.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/traditional?LastNGames=15&TeamID=1610612746&dir=A&sort=PLUS_MINUS

My reasoning is we need to bring defense into the lineup. Morris provides decent offense at times but 0 defense. Our offense since all the acquisitions has been pretty good but our defense has tanked. The starting lineup has plenty of offense but I think it would be more beneficial to add some defense especially if Russ is going to start.

I'm still of the opinion you can't have Russ AND Morris start in the starting lineup. It doesn't necessarily have to be Roco.

Nico Batum will get as many minutes as he can physically handle at age 34. It's who finishes that matters. Batum is first choice: first choice as the starter and first choice as the finisher. I don't think there's ANY disagreement about that.

Ty Lue is dealing with picking the least worst of bad options:

If you demote Morris, and if RoCo doesn't start, Kawhi has to be the PF. I don't think he wants to be the PF, just like PG doesn't want to be the PG. And RoCo has NOT played himself into the starting lineup--or even the rotation. And frankly Mann has not handled HIS demotion well either. His percentages are good but his production isn't.

I don't expect Morris will handle his demotion well either--as a Clipper he's been a BAD bench player. If you hate him now you're gonna hate him even more if you throw him into the second unit with guys he never played with.

This team's only hope is that Westbrook-George-Kawhi somehow clicks. And Powell has to get it together once and for all as the 6th man. Everything and everyone else has to be calculated backwards from that.

Ty isn't the captain blithely steering us into the iceberg--he's the captain down in the engine room bailing water.

[esqtvd]

Spoiler:

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Russ looks bad until you see how everybody else looks worse.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/traditional?PerMode=PerGame&SeasonSegment=Post%20All-Star&TeamID=1610612746&dir=A&sort=PLUS_MINUS

Read on Twitter

TMann gets a chance to see how Westbrook prepares which is good for TMann

I was a T-Mann fan pretty much from his first game in SUMMER LEAGUE. MID-2nd round draft pick. Mom was a women's NCAA coach. Knows the game. I was happy when he got a REAL NBA contract.

5 years later, he's gonna make REAL money. Starting NEXT year, instead of $1M a year he makes 2yr @ $11M a year guaranteed. Good for him. Set for life if he doesn't blow it and I don't think he ever will. Great kid--although at 27 next year...not a kid.

[clipperlover]

Read on Twitter

TMann gets a chance to see how Westbrook prepares which is good for TMann

I was a T-Mann fan pretty much from his first game in SUMMER LEAGUE. MID-2nd round draft pick. Mom was a women's NCAA coach. Knows the game. I was happy when he got a REAL NBA contract.

5 years later, he's gonna make REAL money. Starting NEXT year, instead of $1M a year he makes 2yr @ $11M a year guaranteed. Good for him. Set for life if he doesn't blow it and I don't think he ever will. Great kid--although at 27 next year...not a kid.

The sad part is that TMann won't make over $11M until the 24/25 season. In comparison, Silver Spoon made that much in Year 5 in 2016-2017. Mann had 2 less career starts last year than Spoon did prior to getting on his daddy's team. Mann will have over twice as many career starts before his 1st $10M+ season than Spoon had.

Just more evidence of the underlying infection that plagued the Lob City era Clippers.

[esqtvd]

TMann gets a chance to see how Westbrook prepares which is good for TMann

I was a T-Mann fan pretty much from his first game in SUMMER LEAGUE. MID-2nd round draft pick. Mom was a women's NCAA coach. Knows the game. I was happy when he got a REAL NBA contract.

5 years later, he's gonna make REAL money. Starting NEXT year, instead of $1M a year he makes 2yr @ $11M a year guaranteed. Good for him. Set for life if he doesn't blow it and I don't think he ever will. Great kid--although at 27 next year...not a kid.

The sad part is that TMann won't make over $11M until the 24/25 season. In comparison, Silver Spoon made that much in Year 5 in 2016-2017. Mann had 2 less career starts last year than Spoon did prior to getting on his daddy's team. Mann will have over twice as many career starts before his 1st $10M+ season than Spoon had.

Just more evidence of the underlying infection that plagued the Lob City era Clippers.

Mann's new contract kicks in next season.

Code: Select all

   2023-24       2024-25
   $10,576,923   $11,423,077

Dunno know why you want to beat the dead Doc horse again. That was 7 years ago. We were capped out and could only re-sign our OWN FAs. Austin's contract of the crazy summer of 2016 didn't even make the top 10.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/ranking-12-worst-nba-contracts-of-infamous-2016-free-agency-with-most-finally-expiring-this-offseason/

[MartinToVaught]

Letting Austin walk for nothing would have been addition by subtraction. The salary cap was never a valid excuse to overpay a career net-negative player who was resented by all of his teammates. If his last name wasn't Rivers, it wouldn't have even been a discussion. None of this is new, but the facts do still need to be pointed out.

[esqtvd]

[LamarWho]

How to play defense brought to you by Marcus Morris Sr.

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

[esqtvd]

How to play defense brought to you by Marcus Morris Sr.

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Frankly I'm more worried about Kawhi. He's always #1 in plus/minus. Over the last 5 games [1-4], he's LAST.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/traditional?LastNGames=5&TeamID=1610612746&dir=A&sort=PLUS_MINUS

[MartinToVaught]

Plus/minus is the only stat that matters for any player except Austin Rivers, whose -3.0 career BPM doesn't count because reasons. Got it.

[MartinToVaught]

The Lue/PG/Morris effect:

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