Kendrick Perkins controversial comments on Jokic. Update: JJ Redick goes off on Perk about racism

[AussieCeltic]

You're right. I don't' think the NBA was intentionally doing it. And I know that they are having more owners from minority groups. This isn't much different than having black coaches, which was a big thing a few years ago. It was something people were upset about recently when a few white coaches where immediately picked before black coaches. I'm not saying this is a conspiracy.

This was about the Steve Nash hire which was debunked as well when you had plenty of black coaches like Derek Fisher, Doc Rivers, Isiah Thomas, Mark Jackson all hired with no experience.

Yet people don't seem to mind that happening not sure why it's such an issue to have a more diverse group of owners instead of rich white men.

What do you mean by “you people”. I am black. I own my business. I worked hard for everything. I never at one point said “there aren’t enough black people working here I should be hired”.

No one cares who owns the teams. If there were 30 black owners I wouldn’t care, just like I wouldn’t care if there were 30 Asian owners. It shouldn’t matter. It’s literally an open market. If you have the money, you can buy a team no matter your colour.

There’s 10 or so Australian players in the league, I feel we need an Australian owner and more media members as well. I feel under represented.

[eyeatoma]

This was about the Steve Nash hire which was debunked as well when you had plenty of black coaches like Derek Fisher, Doc Rivers, Isiah Thomas, Mark Jackson all hired with no experience.

Yet people don't seem to mind that happening not sure why it's such an issue to have a more diverse group of owners instead of rich white men.

What do you mean by “you people”. I am black. I own my business. I worked hard for everything. I never at one point said “there aren’t enough black people working here I should be hired”.

No one cares who owns the teams. If there were 30 black owners I wouldn’t care, just like I wouldn’t care if there were 30 Asian owners. It shouldn’t matter. It’s literally an open market. If you have the money, you can buy a team no matter your colour.

There’s 10 or so Australian players in the league, I feel we need an Australian owner and more media members as well. I feel under represented.

Where did I say you people?

I mean the international players were pretty underrepresented for a while. Now that we have more of them the game has blossomed. The best players in the world are all international players. You're proving my point. Diversity is a good thing. It's good for the game of basketball, on the court, and off the court as well.

[AleksandarN]

Everyone can be racist, from a homeless person to a person with money and power. It is a state of mind. If you don't condemn open racism against white people, you don't have an issue with racism as such, you only oppose it if you or your community is on the receiving end.

Please let me know the next time you see a homeless person oppress or exert any type of negative influence on someone.

Clearly you've never been to Portland...

Sent from my SM-S918B using Tapatalk

And you have??

[GameChannel]

I know not a lot of people want to hear this on this board but you can actually see this in effect with the new discourse around the scratches and cuts on Jokic. And how there's now this idea that he doesn't get enough trips to the line despite the way he's all cut up.

But all players get cut up. Terribly so. As another person who is extremely, extremely, and I do mean extremely blindingly white - it's a lot easier to see cuts on white skin than it is on darker skin. But we never hear a real discourse around how cut up Joel Embiid, LeBron, etc may be as well.

This extends into other areas of athletes. I'm mean let's not be disingenuous and sit here and act like American media doesn't salivate at the possibility of a next great white hope athlete, especially in basketball. This is a real thing that happens. Maybe less so these days but it does linger, it does help shape the narrative.

This isn't to discount Jokic's accomplishments by any means, a remarkable talent. We can still recognize his greatness while acknowledging how the media might be more eager to praise him and what he's done and shower him with awards based on his appearance. That isn't an indictment of Jokic, it's an indictment of a media that's still heavily white covering American professional sports which are decidedly not.

The issue with that argument is those white media people still voted for black players the vast majority of the time. And many of those voters are black too, including most of the best known ones. Stephen A has a vote. Mike Wilbon has a vote. Chris Broussard has a vote. David Aldridge has a vote. Greg Anthony has a vote. Chris Herring has a vote. Jalen Rose has a vote. David Aldridge has a vote. Even Kendrick Perkins has a vote.

The NBA media voters are basically a cast of ESPN, SI and The Athletic media people.

Here is the list I found:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/0/d/1KMzwRcilLDej0BWl7eYE_OYC9Tx9olI_Ptn-nHjKfpQ/htmlview

Your argument about the past MVPs over the last decade doesn't have a great deal of weight. Besides Jokic, out of the last ten years which white player was even on a level to be considered for an MVP vote? It's an inconclusive argument within the context of performance.

The argument is akin to saying "In a field of consisting of five different flavors of jolly ranchers as rated by competing candies, the lollipops also voted for the jolly ranchers rather than lollipops."

A silly example, yes, but to the point.

Thank you for the link. I don't think it had your intended effect.

I counted all the voters. There was only one voter who I didn't feel comfortable trying to determine their ethnicity, so I left him out. I believe I counted up everyone right, but:

Of the people (minus the one gentleman) in the link, if I didn't skip over anyone, there's 116 eligible voters for MVP.

62% are white.

Black players of 2021 make up 73% of the league.


Of the 58 votes (minus the one gentleman) who are on record about who they voted for:
38 are white.
20 are People of Color.

39 of those votes were for Jokic.
26 were white media members, which is 68% of the white vote.
13 were from PoC media members, which is 65% of the PoC vote.

I'd like to see the shift in those numbers for the full account of votes, but this link didn't have who everyone voted for, since it seemed to be primarily going off information provided by those voters on twitter/articles/interviews.


But the real number is the first one listed, which again:

62% of the voting body in the link provided is white.

73% of the players in the league are Black.

Just because the NBA is better about some stuff than the NFl, NHL, MLB doesn't mean it doesn't have room to improve. Getting more diversity in front offices, in local reporting, these are just important first steps. Some of you may not like how eyeatoma is bringing their message across, but the message isn't wrong.

I'll bring up a story Greg Oden told after his playing days were over about his time in Portland, which may not seem relevant but to me it is. He said it was difficult for him to be in Portland because he was a young Black man in a city, a state, which is incredibly white. It's isolating. It's depressing. You don't see many, if any, people who look like you on a daily basis. It's hard to do and hard to feel comfortable and connect.

I brought this up because I want you all to think about how many teams are in heavily white cities. But made up of mostly Black players. But they're covered by majority, if not completely, local white reporters (for example I'm not sure if Portland currently has anyone covering the team from any of the state's major to minor publications who is Black. I think they all might be white at this time). Now take this to a wider scope and remember those numbers above. 62% of the voting body is white. On a national scale, how many media members reflecting and talking about the NBA on 'debate' shows, on the radio, are white compared to media members of color? How many local reporters being brought on to those shows are white reporters compared to reporters of color?

How do our own lived experiences, perceptions and prejudices influence how we write and report about players who look vastly different than us? Who grew up different than us? Who deal with incidents in life that we will never encounter and imagine? And how do we create and spread those narratives on a local and national scale?

Because while he is at the center of this thread and topic, again this isn't truly about Jokic. He's a great player. It's in truth about the media and in some way also fans. How the league is covered, who it is covered by, and what certain media members and fans want to come to pass.

Something little to think about that maybe doesn't mean a lot to some people, but maybe it'll get you asking some questions about how the game is covered:
How many Black athletes are described as articulate by white reporters?
How many white athletes are described as articulate by white reporters?

This is the worst, most entitled post I have ever read on here. You probably thought you will get kudos for posting this nonsense and people will marvel at your virtue signaling for diversity.

By your logic, Doctors should start killing white babies to even out the percentages of all races alike.

I'm a POC and I find your take absolutely ridiculous.

[eyeatoma]

Please let me know the next time you see a homeless person oppress or exert any type of negative influence on someone.

Clearly you've never been to Portland...

Sent from my SM-S918B using Tapatalk

And you have??

Yes, my wife is from Portland and I own a house there. We go there every summer. I'm a teacher who works in an international school in Indonesia, and my wife is an American who is from Oregon. I have seen Portland destroyed by the homeless issue, with rampant crime around the city, and a number of racist and dangerous acts being committed by them. They smoke crack, drop needles infront of my house (in a previously well off neighborhood, and steal food from super markets, along with the shopping carts. The state has money to deal with this, but can't come to an agreement to help the homeless who need to get into rehab centers and affordable housing. Anything else you want to ask about my life?

[AleksandarN]

Let's say the Nuggets go on to win the championship this year, will Jokic have deserved it then?

They are running out of arguments. Love to see Jokic to win the chip this year and jokic have even a better season next year and the team wins over 60 games. I wonder what will happen then lol

[GeorgeSears]

Shows like First Take and Undisputed provide no value. They just create division amongst fans.

[AussieCeltic]

Yet people don't seem to mind that happening not sure why it's such an issue to have a more diverse group of owners instead of rich white men.

What do you mean by “you people”. I am black. I own my business. I worked hard for everything. I never at one point said “there aren’t enough black people working here I should be hired”.

No one cares who owns the teams. If there were 30 black owners I wouldn’t care, just like I wouldn’t care if there were 30 Asian owners. It shouldn’t matter. It’s literally an open market. If you have the money, you can buy a team no matter your colour.

There’s 10 or so Australian players in the league, I feel we need an Australian owner and more media members as well. I feel under represented.

Where did I say you people?

I mean the international players were pretty underrepresented for a while. Now that we have more of them the game has blossomed. The best players in the world are all international players. You're proving my point. Diversity is a good thing. It's good for the game of basketball, on the court, and off the court as well.

I misread your post on the you people part. My bad.

Diversity is great but FORCED diversity isn’t. It does the opposite of what it’s intended to do.

[beeshma]

Something little to think about that maybe doesn't mean a lot to some people, but maybe it'll get you asking some questions about how the game is covered:
How many Black athletes are described as articulate by white reporters?
How many white athletes are described as articulate by white reporters?

This is the worst, most entitled post I have ever read on here. You probably thought you will get kudos for posting this nonsense and people will marvel at your virtue signaling for diversity.

By your logic, Doctors should start killing white babies to even out the percentages of all races alike.

I'm a POC and I find your take absolutely ridiculous.

The people who are dominating the thread are not even talking about basketball. They're just speaking standard American employee equity program lingo. From their perspective, it really seems as if they are thinking, making a point, and challenging us to grow. They are not even aware that they've stopped talking about basketball.

[JDR720]

The issue with that argument is those white media people still voted for black players the vast majority of the time. And many of those voters are black too, including most of the best known ones. Stephen A has a vote. Mike Wilbon has a vote. Chris Broussard has a vote. David Aldridge has a vote. Greg Anthony has a vote. Chris Herring has a vote. Jalen Rose has a vote. David Aldridge has a vote. Even Kendrick Perkins has a vote.

The NBA media voters are basically a cast of ESPN, SI and The Athletic media people.

Here is the list I found:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/0/d/1KMzwRcilLDej0BWl7eYE_OYC9Tx9olI_Ptn-nHjKfpQ/htmlview

Your argument about the past MVPs over the last decade doesn't have a great deal of weight. Besides Jokic, out of the last ten years which white player was even on a level to be considered for an MVP vote? It's an inconclusive argument within the context of performance.

The argument is akin to saying "In a field of consisting of five different flavors of jolly ranchers as rated by competing candies, the lollipops also voted for the jolly ranchers rather than lollipops."

A silly example, yes, but to the point.

Thank you for the link. I don't think it had your intended effect.

I counted all the voters. There was only one voter who I didn't feel comfortable trying to determine their ethnicity, so I left him out. I believe I counted up everyone right, but:

Of the people (minus the one gentleman) in the link, if I didn't skip over anyone, there's 116 eligible voters for MVP.

62% are white.

Black players of 2021 make up 73% of the league.


Of the 58 votes (minus the one gentleman) who are on record about who they voted for:
38 are white.
20 are People of Color.

39 of those votes were for Jokic.
26 were white media members, which is 68% of the white vote.
13 were from PoC media members, which is 65% of the PoC vote.

I'd like to see the shift in those numbers for the full account of votes, but this link didn't have who everyone voted for, since it seemed to be primarily going off information provided by those voters on twitter/articles/interviews.


But the real number is the first one listed, which again:

62% of the voting body in the link provided is white.

73% of the players in the league are Black.

Just because the NBA is better about some stuff than the NFl, NHL, MLB doesn't mean it doesn't have room to improve. Getting more diversity in front offices, in local reporting, these are just important first steps. Some of you may not like how eyeatoma is bringing their message across, but the message isn't wrong.

I'll bring up a story Greg Oden told after his playing days were over about his time in Portland, which may not seem relevant but to me it is. He said it was difficult for him to be in Portland because he was a young Black man in a city, a state, which is incredibly white. It's isolating. It's depressing. You don't see many, if any, people who look like you on a daily basis. It's hard to do and hard to feel comfortable and connect.

I brought this up because I want you all to think about how many teams are in heavily white cities. But made up of mostly Black players. But they're covered by majority, if not completely, local white reporters (for example I'm not sure if Portland currently has anyone covering the team from any of the state's major to minor publications who is Black. I think they all might be white at this time). Now take this to a wider scope and remember those numbers above. 62% of the voting body is white. On a national scale, how many media members reflecting and talking about the NBA on 'debate' shows, on the radio, are white compared to media members of color? How many local reporters being brought on to those shows are white reporters compared to reporters of color?

How do our own lived experiences, perceptions and prejudices influence how we write and report about players who look vastly different than us? Who grew up different than us? Who deal with incidents in life that we will never encounter and imagine? And how do we create and spread those narratives on a local and national scale?

Because while he is at the center of this thread and topic, again this isn't truly about Jokic. He's a great player. It's in truth about the media and in some way also fans. How the league is covered, who it is covered by, and what certain media members and fans want to come to pass.

Something little to think about that maybe doesn't mean a lot to some people, but maybe it'll get you asking some questions about how the game is covered:
How many Black athletes are described as articulate by white reporters?
How many white athletes are described as articulate by white reporters?

You're advocating for the exact thing you're against. That, essentially, the NBA is majority black, therefor it has to have majority black everything else involving the league to make sure there isn't any anti-black bias. Reporting, coaches/FO people, media members etc.

That, sure there aren't many white players in the NBA, but when one does win something that probably means the voters are biased. Despite the white voters and non-white voters basically voting the same. 65% and 68% are near identical. Will that same argument apply when Luka wins an MVP? Does it also apply to the fact Tyler Herro and Kevin Love finished 1st and 2nd in 6th man voting last year? Hero got more votes than the next 3 candidates combined.

Look, I think you're well intended, but if you apply this exact same logic to anything else you'd be basically supporting systemic racism against non-black people. The demographics of the players doesn't equate to the demographics of everything else involving the sport they play. You're aren't going to get exact %'s matches because you don't have the same number of people in the pool.


And we're talking about basketball here. Do you need a list of white basketball player stereotypes and tropes? Not athletic. Can't jump. Soft. People literally call Jokic a tub of mayonnaise. Luka was MVP as a teenager in a big Euro league yet slid in the draft because people are warry about drafting white European players. This is the double-standard stuff I mentioned. And the inverse of the things you mentioned last in your post.

To your other points about the NFL/MLB and NHL. Diversity doesn't just mean more black people. I'd argue the MLB is more diverse than the NBA. Sure, not as many African Americans. But lot's of Cubans, Puerto Rican, Dominican, Venezuela and of course a good number of Asian players.

Hockey is obviously very white, but that matches the demographics of the countries that play hockey (mostly northern europe/canada and the northern US) but they do have many nationalities. US, Canada, Russia (both Euro-Russians and Asian Russians), Ukraine, Finland, Sweden, Norway etc.

If anything, believe it or not, the NBA is the least diverse of the major US sports leagues. Not including MLS, obviously. As any soccer league will almost always be more diverse by default. And if you count nationalities for the NHL.



The NBA has the lowest number of white players and the lowest number of non-black minority players. Looks like they could use more diversity

[eyeatoma]

What do you mean by “you people”. I am black. I own my business. I worked hard for everything. I never at one point said “there aren’t enough black people working here I should be hired”.

No one cares who owns the teams. If there were 30 black owners I wouldn’t care, just like I wouldn’t care if there were 30 Asian owners. It shouldn’t matter. It’s literally an open market. If you have the money, you can buy a team no matter your colour.

There’s 10 or so Australian players in the league, I feel we need an Australian owner and more media members as well. I feel under represented.

Where did I say you people?

I mean the international players were pretty underrepresented for a while. Now that we have more of them the game has blossomed. The best players in the world are all international players. You're proving my point. Diversity is a good thing. It's good for the game of basketball, on the court, and off the court as well.

I misread your post on the you people part. My bad.

Diversity is great but FORCED diversity isn’t. It does the opposite of what it’s intended to do.

Yeah agreed on that as well. I just think that some of these owners are really out of touch with their players, and some of their fanbases. Culturally, they don't connect with them either. It's why during the black lives matter movement there was an INITIAL lack of sensitivity, or atleast enough sensitivity to what African American players were going through.

[eyeatoma]

The issue with that argument is those white media people still voted for black players the vast majority of the time. And many of those voters are black too, including most of the best known ones. Stephen A has a vote. Mike Wilbon has a vote. Chris Broussard has a vote. David Aldridge has a vote. Greg Anthony has a vote. Chris Herring has a vote. Jalen Rose has a vote. David Aldridge has a vote. Even Kendrick Perkins has a vote.

The NBA media voters are basically a cast of ESPN, SI and The Athletic media people.

Here is the list I found:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/0/d/1KMzwRcilLDej0BWl7eYE_OYC9Tx9olI_Ptn-nHjKfpQ/htmlview

Your argument about the past MVPs over the last decade doesn't have a great deal of weight. Besides Jokic, out of the last ten years which white player was even on a level to be considered for an MVP vote? It's an inconclusive argument within the context of performance.

The argument is akin to saying "In a field of consisting of five different flavors of jolly ranchers as rated by competing candies, the lollipops also voted for the jolly ranchers rather than lollipops."

A silly example, yes, but to the point.

Thank you for the link. I don't think it had your intended effect.

I counted all the voters. There was only one voter who I didn't feel comfortable trying to determine their ethnicity, so I left him out. I believe I counted up everyone right, but:

Of the people (minus the one gentleman) in the link, if I didn't skip over anyone, there's 116 eligible voters for MVP.

62% are white.

Black players of 2021 make up 73% of the league.


Of the 58 votes (minus the one gentleman) who are on record about who they voted for:
38 are white.
20 are People of Color.

39 of those votes were for Jokic.
26 were white media members, which is 68% of the white vote.
13 were from PoC media members, which is 65% of the PoC vote.

I'd like to see the shift in those numbers for the full account of votes, but this link didn't have who everyone voted for, since it seemed to be primarily going off information provided by those voters on twitter/articles/interviews.


But the real number is the first one listed, which again:

62% of the voting body in the link provided is white.

73% of the players in the league are Black.

Just because the NBA is better about some stuff than the NFl, NHL, MLB doesn't mean it doesn't have room to improve. Getting more diversity in front offices, in local reporting, these are just important first steps. Some of you may not like how eyeatoma is bringing their message across, but the message isn't wrong.

I'll bring up a story Greg Oden told after his playing days were over about his time in Portland, which may not seem relevant but to me it is. He said it was difficult for him to be in Portland because he was a young Black man in a city, a state, which is incredibly white. It's isolating. It's depressing. You don't see many, if any, people who look like you on a daily basis. It's hard to do and hard to feel comfortable and connect.

I brought this up because I want you all to think about how many teams are in heavily white cities. But made up of mostly Black players. But they're covered by majority, if not completely, local white reporters (for example I'm not sure if Portland currently has anyone covering the team from any of the state's major to minor publications who is Black. I think they all might be white at this time). Now take this to a wider scope and remember those numbers above. 62% of the voting body is white. On a national scale, how many media members reflecting and talking about the NBA on 'debate' shows, on the radio, are white compared to media members of color? How many local reporters being brought on to those shows are white reporters compared to reporters of color?

How do our own lived experiences, perceptions and prejudices influence how we write and report about players who look vastly different than us? Who grew up different than us? Who deal with incidents in life that we will never encounter and imagine? And how do we create and spread those narratives on a local and national scale?

Because while he is at the center of this thread and topic, again this isn't truly about Jokic. He's a great player. It's in truth about the media and in some way also fans. How the league is covered, who it is covered by, and what certain media members and fans want to come to pass.

Something little to think about that maybe doesn't mean a lot to some people, but maybe it'll get you asking some questions about how the game is covered:
How many Black athletes are described as articulate by white reporters?
How many white athletes are described as articulate by white reporters?

You're advocating for the exact thing you're against. That, essentially, the NBA is majority black, therefor it has to have majority black everything else involving the league to make sure there isn't any anti-black bias. Reporting, coaches/FO people, media members etc.

That, sure there aren't many white players in the NBA, but when one does win something that probably means the voters are biased. Despite the white voters and non-white voters basically voting the same. 65% and 68% are near identical. Will that same argument apply when Luka wins an MVP? Does it also apply to the fact Tyler Herro and Kevin Love finished 1st and 2nd in 6th man voting last year? Hero got more votes than the next 3 candidates combined.

Look, I think you're well intended, but if you apply this exact same logic to anything else you'd be basically supporting systemic racism against non-black people. The demographics of the players doesn't equate to the demographics of everything else involving the sport they play. You're aren't going to get exact %'s matches because you don't have the same number of people in the pool.


And we're talking about basketball here. Do you need a list of white basketball player stereotypes and tropes? Not athletic. Can't jump. Soft. People literally call Jokic a tub of mayonnaise. Luka was MVP as a teenager in a big Euro league yet slid in the draft because people are warry about drafting white European players. This is the double-standard stuff I mentioned. And the inverse of the things you mentioned last in your post.

To your other points about the NFL/MLB and NHL. Diversity doesn't just mean more black people. I'd argue the MLB is more diverse than the NBA. Sure, not as many African Americans. But lot's of Cubans, Puerto Rican, Dominican, Venezuela and of course a good number of Asian players.

Hockey is obviously very white, but that matches the demographics of the countries that play hockey (mostly northern europe/canada and the northern US) but they do have many nationalities. US, Canada, Russia (both Euro-Russians and Asian Russians), Ukraine, Finland, Sweden, Norway etc.

If anything, believe it or not, the NBA is the least diverse of the major US sports leagues. Not including MLS, obviously. As any soccer league will almost always be more diverse by default. And if you count nationalities for the NHL.



The NBA has the lowest number of white players and the lowest number of non-black minority players. Looks like they could use more diversity

No one is saying there shouldn't be more white players. What I was saying was that there should be a more diverse ownership group. The media is also majority white, there are also far too many votes per company. The Ringer,ESPN and the Athletic having the most if I recall. Voting for MVP imo should be left to coaches and players.

[AussieCeltic]

Where did I say you people?

I mean the international players were pretty underrepresented for a while. Now that we have more of them the game has blossomed. The best players in the world are all international players. You're proving my point. Diversity is a good thing. It's good for the game of basketball, on the court, and off the court as well.

I misread your post on the you people part. My bad.

Diversity is great but FORCED diversity isn’t. It does the opposite of what it’s intended to do.

Yeah agreed on that as well. I just think that some of these owners are really out of touch with their players, and some of their fanbases. Culturally, they don't connect with them either. It's why during the black lives matter movement there was an INITIAL lack of sensitivity, or atleast enough sensitivity to what African American players were going through.

The movement that did nothing but gain votes for the Democratic party? Where were they post election? The movement where the founders stole millions of dollars rather than giving them to black communities? The NBA bent over backwards for BLM.

Which owners in particular our out of touch with their players and fan bases?

[GreatWhiteStiff]

Kendrick Perkins being racist, I don't know or really care. Kendrick Perkins not being very braht...as the dothraki whores say..."this is known".

[AleksandarN]

I know not a lot of people want to hear this on this board but you can actually see this in effect with the new discourse around the scratches and cuts on Jokic. And how there's now this idea that he doesn't get enough trips to the line despite the way he's all cut up.

But all players get cut up. Terribly so. As another person who is extremely, extremely, and I do mean extremely blindingly white - it's a lot easier to see cuts on white skin than it is on darker skin. But we never hear a real discourse around how cut up Joel Embiid, LeBron, etc may be as well.

This extends into other areas of athletes. I'm mean let's not be disingenuous and sit here and act like American media doesn't salivate at the possibility of a next great white hope athlete, especially in basketball. This is a real thing that happens. Maybe less so these days but it does linger, it does help shape the narrative.

This isn't to discount Jokic's accomplishments by any means, a remarkable talent. We can still recognize his greatness while acknowledging how the media might be more eager to praise him and what he's done and shower him with awards based on his appearance. That isn't an indictment of Jokic, it's an indictment of a media that's still heavily white covering American professional sports which are decidedly not.

The issue with that argument is those white media people still voted for black players the vast majority of the time. And many of those voters are black too, including most of the best known ones. Stephen A has a vote. Mike Wilbon has a vote. Chris Broussard has a vote. David Aldridge has a vote. Greg Anthony has a vote. Chris Herring has a vote. Jalen Rose has a vote. David Aldridge has a vote. Even Kendrick Perkins has a vote.

The NBA media voters are basically a cast of ESPN, SI and The Athletic media people.

Here is the list I found:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/0/d/1KMzwRcilLDej0BWl7eYE_OYC9Tx9olI_Ptn-nHjKfpQ/htmlview

Your argument about the past MVPs over the last decade doesn't have a great deal of weight. Besides Jokic, out of the last ten years which white player was even on a level to be considered for an MVP vote? It's an inconclusive argument within the context of performance.

The argument is akin to saying "In a field of consisting of five different flavors of jolly ranchers as rated by competing candies, the lollipops also voted for the jolly ranchers rather than lollipops."

A silly example, yes, but to the point.

Thank you for the link. I don't think it had your intended effect.

I counted all the voters. There was only one voter who I didn't feel comfortable trying to determine their ethnicity, so I left him out. I believe I counted up everyone right, but:

Of the people (minus the one gentleman) in the link, if I didn't skip over anyone, there's 116 eligible voters for MVP.

62% are white.

Black players of 2021 make up 73% of the league.


Of the 58 votes (minus the one gentleman) who are on record about who they voted for:
38 are white.
20 are People of Color.

39 of those votes were for Jokic.
26 were white media members, which is 68% of the white vote.
13 were from PoC media members, which is 65% of the PoC vote.

I'd like to see the shift in those numbers for the full account of votes, but this link didn't have who everyone voted for, since it seemed to be primarily going off information provided by those voters on twitter/articles/interviews.


But the real number is the first one listed, which again:

62% of the voting body in the link provided is white.

73% of the players in the league are Black.

Just because the NBA is better about some stuff than the NFl, NHL, MLB doesn't mean it doesn't have room to improve. Getting more diversity in front offices, in local reporting, these are just important first steps. Some of you may not like how eyeatoma is bringing their message across, but the message isn't wrong.

I'll bring up a story Greg Oden told after his playing days were over about his time in Portland, which may not seem relevant but to me it is. He said it was difficult for him to be in Portland because he was a young Black man in a city, a state, which is incredibly white. It's isolating. It's depressing. You don't see many, if any, people who look like you on a daily basis. It's hard to do and hard to feel comfortable and connect.

I brought this up because I want you all to think about how many teams are in heavily white cities. But made up of mostly Black players. But they're covered by majority, if not completely, local white reporters (for example I'm not sure if Portland currently has anyone covering the team from any of the state's major to minor publications who is Black. I think they all might be white at this time). Now take this to a wider scope and remember those numbers above. 62% of the voting body is white. On a national scale, how many media members reflecting and talking about the NBA on 'debate' shows, on the radio, are white compared to media members of color? How many local reporters being brought on to those shows are white reporters compared to reporters of color?

How do our own lived experiences, perceptions and prejudices influence how we write and report about players who look vastly different than us? Who grew up different than us? Who deal with incidents in life that we will never encounter and imagine? And how do we create and spread those narratives on a local and national scale?

Because while he is at the center of this thread and topic, again this isn't truly about Jokic. He's a great player. It's in truth about the media and in some way also fans. How the league is covered, who it is covered by, and what certain media members and fans want to come to pass.

Something little to think about that maybe doesn't mean a lot to some people, but maybe it'll get you asking some questions about how the game is covered:
How many Black athletes are described as articulate by white reporters?
How many white athletes are described as articulate by white reporters?

I am glad you pointed out Greg Ogden’s story of feeling isolated and depressed. That thing can be said to a lot of international players coming to the NBA from overseas.

[eyeatoma]

I misread your post on the you people part. My bad.

Diversity is great but FORCED diversity isn’t. It does the opposite of what it’s intended to do.

Yeah agreed on that as well. I just think that some of these owners are really out of touch with their players, and some of their fanbases. Culturally, they don't connect with them either. It's why during the black lives matter movement there was an INITIAL lack of sensitivity, or atleast enough sensitivity to what African American players were going through.

The movement that did nothing but gain votes for the Democratic party? Where were they post election? The movement where the founders stole millions of dollars rather than giving them to black communities? The NBA bent over backwards for BLM.

Which owners in particular our out of touch with their players and fan bases?

Sarver (gone now), Dolan, Celtics have had some issues with it, I know Jaylen Brown had rumors about wanting out during the BLM movement. I know it's one of the reasons they went with Udoka and then Mazzula (sp).

Clippers with Sterling before he was forced to sell.

The Jazz have some issues least I know the players have expressed them. Kyle Korver, Westbrook, know there were a few others.


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[AleksandarN]

I don't think theres a conspiracy. But I do think that the there are racist undertones, and tendency to label Jokic a charming, fun loving, chubby guy. Do y'all remember the hate Embiid gets for his issues with weight earlier in his career? Fact of the matter is the majority of the media is white. One of the most influential media groups is the Ringer, which is predominantly a pro Boston homer group, that lauds advanced stats, as a way to differentiate players from black players. There is subconscious racism in the NBA. It's clearly in American society, why do you think the NBA would be any different?

He got hate for being bigger because he was missing a lot of games and was physically gassed by the end of the season. Embiid had a lot more expectations than Jokic bc Jokic was a second round pick. This might be the first year where Jokic has to deal with actual expectations and media scrutiny. How can you critique a guy who was drafted in the range of typical G-Leaguers and 9-12th man type players?

Jokic has won the last 4 all nba first team awards and has 2 mvps, he is not and has not been the underdog you want him to be. Hes routinely voted the best without expectations of success. The fact it has taken this long for him to get a fraction of the heat Embiid does shows some sort of bias. I dont think it is racial, just playing favorites.

Also surveyed by GMs and executives as the number one Center the last 3 years. I guess the other team executives are biased I guess

[AussieCeltic]

Yeah agreed on that as well. I just think that some of these owners are really out of touch with their players, and some of their fanbases. Culturally, they don't connect with them either. It's why during the black lives matter movement there was an INITIAL lack of sensitivity, or atleast enough sensitivity to what African American players were going through.

The movement that did nothing but gain votes for the Democratic party? Where were they post election? The movement where the founders stole millions of dollars rather than giving them to black communities? The NBA bent over backwards for BLM.

Which owners in particular our out of touch with their players and fan bases?

Sarver (gone now), Dolan, Celtics have had some issues with it, I know Jaylen Brown had rumors about wanting out during the BLM movement. I know it's one of the reasons they went with Udoka and then Mazzula (sp).

Clippers with Sterling before he was forced to sell.

The Jazz have some issues least I know the players have expressed them.

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You're talking about past owners now? I thought you said the current owners are out of touch with players and fanbases?

Celtics have had zero issues with ownership. I don't know where you got that from.

The new Jazz owner is a young guy and is really well liked and is friends with most of the players.

Dolan is the only one I agree on but he seems to be out of the spotlight now and has let his black GM, black team president, black vice president take the reigns.

[eyeatoma]

The movement that did nothing but gain votes for the Democratic party? Where were they post election? The movement where the founders stole millions of dollars rather than giving them to black communities? The NBA bent over backwards for BLM.

Which owners in particular our out of touch with their players and fan bases?

Sarver (gone now), Dolan, Celtics have had some issues with it, I know Jaylen Brown had rumors about wanting out during the BLM movement. I know it's one of the reasons they went with Udoka and then Mazzula (sp).

Clippers with Sterling before he was forced to sell.

The Jazz have some issues least I know the players have expressed them.

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You're talking about past owners now? I thought you said the current owners are out of touch with players and fanbases?

Celtics have had zero issues with ownership. I don't know where you got that from.

The new Jazz owner is a young guy and is really well liked and is friends with most of the players.

Dolan is the only one I agree on but he seems to be out of the spotlight now and has let his black GM, black team president, black vice president take the reigns.

Most of the owners I've not heard issues with, I'm sharing what we've had issues with over the last 10-15 years. Sarver was this year... 3-4 teams is not little. Jazz had some concerns, if I recollect. You don't remember, the rumors about Brown? I recall things on the media about the Celtics during the bubble playoffs, but I could be misinformed, could have swore I saw some things on that. Again, I don't think there needs to be something drastic like forcing owners to sell, but when an owner is selling, looking for more diverse owners isn't a bad thing. There're already actively doing that with coaches, and people are acting outraged when I mentioned it should also include the owners.

[eyeatoma]

I misread your post on the you people part. My bad.

Diversity is great but FORCED diversity isn’t. It does the opposite of what it’s intended to do.

Yeah agreed on that as well. I just think that some of these owners are really out of touch with their players, and some of their fanbases. Culturally, they don't connect with them either. It's why during the black lives matter movement there was an INITIAL lack of sensitivity, or atleast enough sensitivity to what African American players were going through.

The movement that did nothing but gain votes for the Democratic party? Where were they post election? The movement where the founders stole millions of dollars rather than giving them to black communities? The NBA bent over backwards for BLM.

Which owners in particular our out of touch with their players and fan bases?

Not specific, but the players were going to boycott and not complete the playoffs if the NBA didn't take a stronger stance about what was going on with BLM. The NBA represents the owners, that is an indictment on the owners. All the things you mentioned happened after the boycott threat. Initially there wasn't enough being done. All those things you mentioned were terms teams agreed upon to appease their players. The social justice message on the players backs? All after the fact...