MVP bias / Double Standards?

1993Playoffs · Post #1 » by **1993Playoffs** » Wed Mar 8, 2023 7:05 pm

?s=20

Even NBA trainers are calling it out

Freighttrain · Post #2 » by **Freighttrain** » Wed Mar 8, 2023 7:20 pm

Do I think the media has a bias? Sure, but do I think it is ethnicity-based? No. The problem with the MVP is that there are no real ways to measure what one thinks when it pertains to MVP, as there are no strict criteria. Some consider a narrow interpretation, being just the regular season and nothing else. Others look at it broader and add in factors such as postseason performance, historical significance, or even media voting tiredness. And even if we all use the narrow interpretation, which is perhaps the most convenient way, there are still different ways to measure impact via metrics such as RPM, RAPTOR, PIE, or whichever stat one prefers compared to raw stats or meaning of singular stat lines such as the case was with the triple-double,.. Point is, it will always be up for scrutiny, and as long as there is no real intrinsic way to measure it via having a set of rules or criteria it will always be up for debate. It has happened before, it is happening now and it will happen again.

Lockdown504090 · Post #3 » by **Lockdown504090** » Wed Mar 8, 2023 7:22 pm

tim mcmahon is one guy, cant judge the lot of them off his quote. hanlen is also really biased here.

CobraCommander · Post #4 » by **CobraCommander** » Wed Mar 8, 2023 7:24 pm

1993Playoffs wrote:

Read on Twitter
?s=20

Even NBA trainers are calling it out

All of this can be true but we can’t punish Jokic for it.

The way to fix it isn’t to harp on the double standard…

it’s to STATE what the standards are and adhere to them going forward.

The problem with Perks and JJs argument is there is no objective measure of what is required to win MVP.

If it’s subjective then it’s open for interpretation…

My problem with Perks and anyone else’s observation on Jokic winning the MVP is that they are not saying he isn’t the best player on earth having one of the most statistically dominant years ever.

They are giving their SUBJECTIVE opinion on why he will win the MVP Vs someone else who black that they SUBJECTIVELY think should win but isn’t as good as Jokic OBJECTIVELY using the actual stats and team record.

Perk or anyone else thinking white people have an advantage- make the rules for the MVP specific -

Example

A. Have to be top 10 in scoring
B. Have to shoot greater than x % on X number of shots
C. Have been to the finals
D. Teams in 4 place or better in conf
E. Cant win 3 in a row without a championship
F. What?

yannisk · Post #5 » by **yannisk** » Wed Mar 8, 2023 7:28 pm

Doncic is 24 so he still gets some leeway. He has generally performed better in the playoffs than the regular season. Harden was thrashed more for foul baiting than his usage.

They were quite a few people saying that Giannis should not get a 3rd mvp no matter what. Still Giannis did not have such a strong case to see if these people were the majority or not.

ghillphx · Post #6 » by **ghillphx** » Wed Mar 8, 2023 7:30 pm

Nothing to see here except a racist himself, Kendrick. Stop making everything about race. **** getting old.

maxpower8888 · Post #7 » by **maxpower8888** » Wed Mar 8, 2023 7:33 pm

The difference between Harden and Luka is that Harden was that player in his prime whereas Luka is still young and learning. If Luka continues to fail with Dallas you will see the criticisms get louder.

Richard Miller · Post #8 » by **Richard Miller** » Wed Mar 8, 2023 7:33 pm

1993Playoffs wrote:Even NBA trainers are calling it out

NBA trainers :lol:

Drew is Embiid coach/fanboy

BeiBeau · Post #9 » by **BeiBeau** » Wed Mar 8, 2023 7:38 pm

maxpower8888 wrote:The difference between Harden and Luka is that Harden was that player in his prime whereas Luka is still young and learning. If Luka continues to fail with Dallas you will see the criticisms get louder.

Seriously. There are actual Mavs fans posting in the Mavs forums that Luka is a failure because he didn't win the chip last year. It will come soon.

Post #10 » by **jazzfan1971** » Wed Mar 8, 2023 7:38 pm

Luka gets trashed for crying all the time.

Myth · Post #11 » by **Myth** » Wed Mar 8, 2023 7:46 pm

Voter fatigue is real, but one thing that prevents it seems to be improving your case. When Giannis was a 2x reigning MVP, in his 3rd campaign his stats remained comparable, but his team record really took a hit, so his chances of winning a 3rd straight dropped. Now that Jokic is currently 2x reigning MVP, and his stats are comparable (some things lower, some things better, kind of equals out depending on what you value), but the one knock on him in previous seasons was record and that has improved and the Nuggets are currently 1st in the West, so he has actually built his case beyond what was needed to justify the award in the past. Right now, both Giannis and Jokic have legit MVP cases, but it is pretty silly to act like Jokic's current MVP campaign is that comparable to Giannis' campain in 2021.

Lockdown504090 · Post #12 » by **Lockdown504090** » Wed Mar 8, 2023 7:50 pm

ghillphx wrote:Nothing to see here except a racist himself, Kendrick. Stop making everything about race. **** getting old.

you actually can make it about race without being a racist. for example " how cool is it that theres a white guy cookin up like this?" "look at the interaction between his black teammates and how much they love him". There is a racial component to everything involving people of differnt races, but it can be positive. Ppl just stirring up crap for clicks. I love hearing about players from different backgrounds making friends. hedo being really good friends with quentin richardson and bonding over svg being a hardass is cool.

Ryoga Hibiki · Post #13 » by **Ryoga Hibiki** » Wed Mar 8, 2023 7:50 pm

You know who this guy is?
He has zero credibility, in particular for anything Sixers related

nikster · Post #14 » by **nikster** » Wed Mar 8, 2023 7:54 pm

BeiBeau wrote:
maxpower8888 wrote:The difference between Harden and Luka is that Harden was that player in his prime whereas Luka is still young and learning. If Luka continues to fail with Dallas you will see the criticisms get louder.

Seriously. There are actual Mavs fans posting in the Mavs forums that Luka is a failure because he didn't win the chip last year. It will come soon.

Yup. And Luka has played phenomenal in all 3 of his playoff runs, actually raising the level of play from the season. Hardens play dropped off and he had a few really bad performances (tho I think they were overblown). And the game changes, Heliocentric basketball is way more common now.

As for MVP, Harden was in the discussion every year of his prime. Harden won an MVP, was runner up 3 times and had a 3rd place finish. He got a lot of hate but I don't see that reflected at all in MVP voting

xAIRNESSx · Post #15 » by **xAIRNESSx** » Wed Mar 8, 2023 7:56 pm

Random anecdotes are not convincing

Kingdibs19 · Post #16 » by **Kingdibs19** » Wed Mar 8, 2023 7:57 pm

This is nothing new. The media showed how bias they were when Nash won those bogus MVPs. They have no shame and will come up with some narrative all year to vote for the guy that looks like them.

Jadoogar · Post #17 » by **Jadoogar** » Wed Mar 8, 2023 8:01 pm

1993Playoffs wrote:

Read on Twitter
?s=20

Even NBA trainers are calling it out

Both of these are fair points and there's no denying that US in general has a bias. However, it can still be true that Jokic is the MVP this year.

A real "2 wrongs don't make a right" situation. The real problem is that Jokic shouldn't have won last year (despite his brilliance). It's extremely rare that the MVP goes to a team with such a low record despite the circumstances. The MVP has almost always gone to a top 3 seed because it makes sense (if you're the most valuable, your team should win with you on the floor). Jokic is doing that this year and putting up unbelievable numbers.

That said, i wouldn't mind if Giannis/Embiid wins the MVP, they have equally compelling cases aside from games played

Woodsanity · Post #18 » by **Woodsanity** » Wed Mar 8, 2023 8:08 pm

1993Playoffs wrote:

Read on Twitter
?s=20

Even NBA trainers are calling it out

Luka playoff PER: 27.9
Harden playoff PER: 22.3

No they are not even remotely close in the playoffs.

Giannis 20-21 season was not as good as Jokic's 20-21 season. Nothing to do with the need to make a Finals nonsense to win a 3rd MVP which is a dumb premise anyway.

Mickey8 · Post #19 » by **Mickey8** » Wed Mar 8, 2023 8:09 pm

This moron is Embiid's coach , trying to capitalize on Perkins's stupidity.

Woodsanity · Post #20 » by **Woodsanity** » Wed Mar 8, 2023 8:12 pm

Jadoogar wrote:
1993Playoffs wrote:

Read on Twitter
?s=20

Even NBA trainers are calling it out

Both of these are fair points and there's no denying that US in general has a bias. However, it can still be true that Jokic is the MVP this year.

A real "2 wrongs don't make a right" situation. The real problem is that Jokic shouldn't have won last year (despite his brilliance). It's extremely rare that the MVP goes to a team with such a low record despite the circumstances. The MVP has almost always gone to a top 3 seed because it makes sense (if you're the most valuable, your team should win with you on the floor). Jokic is doing that this year and putting up unbelievable numbers.

That said, i wouldn't mind if Giannis/Embiid wins the MVP, they have equally compelling cases aside from games played

Jokic won last season since his primary competitor Embiid record wasn't much better. Only 51 wins vs 48 when Jokic was missing his 2nd and 3rd best player. Embiid also missed 6 more games so he didn't contribute more towards winning at all.