How does the GB see Paolo?

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Re: How does the GB see Paolo? 

Post#61 » by ellobo » Wed Mar 8, 2023 5:02 pm

hardenASG13 wrote:
LessEyeTest wrote:The same way I viewed a young Aaron Gordon. Overhyped young guy putting up big numbers on a losing team.


Your Stat reading is very wrong on him. Aaron Gordon was miscast as a number one/number 2 option. Paolo completely looks the part.

Try watching a few of his games. His size/skill combo is legit and he's got the confidence of a superstar player.


I was going to say this. Aaron Gordon has never put up "big" numbers and has never really been overhyped. He was more of a disappointment who was miscast as a primary scorer, and he's now reinvented himself as a valuable multiskilled glue guy.
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Re: How does the GB see Paolo? 

Post#62 » by Bergmaniac » Wed Mar 8, 2023 5:06 pm

hardenASG13 wrote:
LessEyeTest wrote:The same way I viewed a young Aaron Gordon. Overhyped young guy putting up big numbers on a losing team.


Your Stat reading is very wrong on him. Aaron Gordon was miscast as a number one/number 2 option. Paolo completely looks the part.

Try watching a few of his games. His size/skill combo is legit and he's got the confidence of a superstar player.

Aaron Gordon averaged 5 PPG as a rooke, he was extremely raw offensively. He was nothing like Paolo. And Gordon has never looked remotely likely to become a good first option while Paolo clearly shows such potential.
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Re: How does the GB see Paolo? 

Post#63 » by hardenASG13 » Wed Mar 8, 2023 5:10 pm

Bergmaniac wrote:
hardenASG13 wrote:
LessEyeTest wrote:The same way I viewed a young Aaron Gordon. Overhyped young guy putting up big numbers on a losing team.


Your Stat reading is very wrong on him. Aaron Gordon was miscast as a number one/number 2 option. Paolo completely looks the part.

Try watching a few of his games. His size/skill combo is legit and he's got the confidence of a superstar player.

Aaron Gordon averaged 5 PPG as a rooke, he was extremely raw offensively. He was nothing like Paolo. And Gordon has never looked remotely likely to become a good first option while Paolo clearly shows such potential.


Right? What an uninformed, bizarre comparison. As the poster above said, Gordon is getting praised now, and jokic too for him having a good season. But Gordon has always been a solid player, just never had a skill set to be the main guy. Paolo more than has that skill set.
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Re: How does the GB see Paolo? 

Post#64 » by JonFromVA » Wed Mar 8, 2023 5:16 pm

Vampirate wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:I'd be very enthused if I was an Orlando fan, but this is just year one and Paulo will need to work on a lot of areas of his game to become a + player, a star, a super-star, etc.

It's easier to project Franz because he's already contributing in areas Paulo will need to develop.


Paolo has probably the most important skill already as a scorer.

He can get to the line a ton and convert.

Pretty much means he can have an awful shooting night going 3/14 but still put up 14 points because he's generating extra possessions with his FTs.

I think at Paolo's size and ability to draw FTs he's going to be an efficient scorer and still can be a poor 3 point shooter.


I'd generally want to see a higher % of shots coming close to the rim for a player with that profile, but of course if he improves his shooting that changes things.
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How does the GB see Paolo? 

Post#65 » by thomchatt3rton » Wed Mar 8, 2023 5:23 pm

Idk but I was very surprised by how much he handled the ball for them as a rookie and a big. This was very early in the season too. And he was capable. Bodes well for his future.


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Re: How does the GB see Paolo? 

Post#66 » by HotelVitale » Wed Mar 8, 2023 8:14 pm

jazzfan1971 wrote:I have seen maybe 1 game. Didn't notice him a lot that game. So, not a lot to say from a what I've seen vantage. Looking at stats it seems like a he's a high volume, low efficiency player. Those guys will kill you. Especially if you feel compelled to give them fat contracts due to draft position and potential. So, there is downside. But, these guys can still be All-Stars year after year. If he becomes a high volume, high efficiency player then you've got a true championship level player to build around.

So, I see quite a range for him. Anywhere from franchise killer to franchise savoir. But, he looks like he will be on all-star teams either way, because points..

Apologies if this isn't true but this sounds like a salty Jazz/Walker Kessler fan take that's not very helpful. Been a lot of that on the rookie thread, Jazz people popping in and knocking Paolo as ludicrously inefficiency to prop up Kessler as a ROY candidate. Whether or not that's partially the motive, it sounds like you're glancing at stats, assuming the most un-generous take on them ('Paolo is a chucker'), and assuming that's the permanent story on him.

I honestly don't think anyone who's watched Paolo worries that he's a chucker-type player. He's been inefficient in a way that most rookies are, experimenting and taking some shots that might not be his bread and butter going forward. But he doesn't have a long history of shaky efficiency and doens't have a game premised on making shots we're not sure he can make efficiently (which is a legit worry about a guy like Cade, though not necessarily a fatal one). With rookies it's better to be looking for how they can be effective, and he's huge for a wing, has a really really nice handle for his size, great body control, good court awareness, nice touch. Really most of what you could want out of a wing scorer. If he wanted to only take efficient shots, he could score less and do that, but he's trying to mess around and see what he can do as someone with that size and skill set, who's easily getting to good spots and creating separation etc. The vast majority of rookies can't do that at all, or they look wild/out of control when they do.

I'm not a Magic fan or Duke fan and don't have a crush on Paolo, but to my eyes he's a really interesting and impressive rookie whose development is going to be fun to follow. I think bball fans will enjoy him as a player if there aren't any other agendas.
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Re: How does the GB see Paolo? 

Post#67 » by jazzfan1971 » Wed Mar 8, 2023 8:39 pm

I thought what I wrote was fairly well balanced.
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Re: How does the GB see Paolo? 

Post#68 » by Billl » Wed Mar 8, 2023 8:54 pm

As a piston fan, I already have to watch too much bad basketball to watch a bunch of orlando games. :) In his 3 against us, he destroyed us to open the season and then was ineffective on 30% shooting in the next 2. Obviously he's got a ton of talent though. I think he'll look even better when you get that guard situation sorted out. He can handle and create, but you want to get your big some easier looks than he's having to take.
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Re: How does the GB see Paolo? 

Post#69 » by GeorgeMarcus » Wed Mar 8, 2023 9:05 pm

Not gonna lie, I really don't see it with Paulo. He's obvious a legit NBA talent but for the time being he is absorbing usage on a team that was desperate for it. Just not in love with his defensive limitations or overall style of play. This comment will put a target on my back but I would rather have Franz Wagner than Banchero.
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Re: How does the GB see Paolo? 

Post#70 » by Clav » Wed Mar 8, 2023 9:28 pm

GeorgeMarcus wrote:Not gonna lie, I really don't see it with Paulo. He's obvious a legit NBA talent but for the time being he is absorbing usage on a team that was desperate for it. Just not in love with his defensive limitations or overall style of play. This comment will put a target on my back but I would rather have Franz Wagner than Banchero.



Yeah, it might put a target on your back somewhat, George. I'd disagree with you... But before that, I really like Franz, too, he's got some natural gifts and positioning savvy that leads to positive plays, nice shot, great feel around the midpost. Kind of a Siakam lite right now (that's a good player to have).

But Banchero ... I'd take Banchero in a second, he seems to have a higher ceiling to me (i.e driving and absorbing contact and rebounding). Hes got a wide-ranging skill set and I'm not as scared away by his playstyle. There's a lot to learn in the NBA, but he does pass well, he rebounds, and he has multiple moves and good touch around the rim I can tell he's figuring it out.

Defensively, let's see how ORL can address its POA attack defense and get a solid backcourt, this team has a lot of potential.

I kind of hope both players stick on ORL because as a 3/4 Wagner Banchero are really nice players to switch defensively, and to create offensive mismatches.
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Re: How does the GB see Paolo? 

Post#71 » by Pumpkin17 » Wed Mar 8, 2023 9:31 pm

Looks like he has a lot of offensive skills, i think he can be a Julius Randle kind of guy as a base case, with a serious chance he ends up consistently better. Has the right attitude and will surely work on his weaknesses. Rooting hard for him given he's Italian, I think he and Franz could be a fantastic tandem.
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Re: How does the GB see Paolo? 

Post#72 » by Bergmaniac » Wed Mar 8, 2023 9:40 pm

GeorgeMarcus wrote:Not gonna lie, I really don't see it with Paulo. He's obvious a legit NBA talent but for the time being he is absorbing usage on a team that was desperate for it. Just not in love with his defensive limitations or overall style of play. This comment will put a target on my back but I would rather have Franz Wagner than Banchero.

Franz over Paolo is a perfectly reasonable opinion, currently Franz is significantly better, especially in terms of impact (Franz is first on the team in on/off by some margin, Paolo is dead last). Paolo is obviously younger and has more potential for improvement. If I have to pick only one of them, it would be Franz too by a whisker.
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Re: How does the GB see Paolo? 

Post#73 » by 3ddman23 » Wed Mar 8, 2023 9:58 pm

Castle Black wrote:He’s the next great Orlando Magic player in line to become a Laker in 3 years.


May be a joke, but i dont understand how someone who follows b ball and is on these forums can say something like this...
This isnt 1996 anymore. Good rookies are locked into there drafted team for at least 6-8 years because of restricted free agency. If paolo is traded before that its because he is underperforming and isnt showing signs of true improvement. There not gonna trade a guy who plays like a legitimate all star caliber player. Its crazy how this keeps coming up in threads and chats.

If paolo is off the magic before 6-8 years its because he sucks and does not improve beyond his rookie year or they trade him in a package for a superstar or he forces his way out after his second contract, which at that point is justified if the magic cant but a winning product around him.
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Re: How does the GB see Paolo? 

Post#74 » by XTC » Wed Mar 8, 2023 10:05 pm

His game reminds me of Pistons 18/19 Blake Griffin, before he started to suck. I love his game. Such a talented young player.

I'd be thrilled if I was Orlando.
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Re: How does the GB see Paolo? 

Post#75 » by HotelVitale » Wed Mar 8, 2023 10:09 pm

jazzfan1971 wrote:I thought what I wrote was fairly well balanced.


Well no offense or anything, but it kinda reads like a straight up hit job. :lol:

The post is mostly running with the assumption that he'll be a low efficiency high volume guy, but the wording takes it to another level. You literally say 'those guys will kill you'--and then your attempt to be 'balanced' and show the other side is that, well at least 'these guys can still be All-Stars' even if they're useless team-killing chuckers that won't win you anything. You do technically say in passing at one point 'he could be a franchise savior'--but that's stacked between 6 sentences assuming he'll be a low volume chucker, and your conclusion which says 'he looks like he will be on all-star teams either way, because points.'

You gotta admit it's kinda funny: Magic draft a really promising player and you treat it like youre consoling a friend for his shotgun wedding to a hideous skank. He's a rookie though and anything could happen, maybe your (inadvertent) pessimism will look super smart in a few years.
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Re: How does the GB see Paolo? 

Post#76 » by GeorgeMarcus » Wed Mar 8, 2023 10:10 pm

Bergmaniac wrote:
GeorgeMarcus wrote:Not gonna lie, I really don't see it with Paulo. He's obvious a legit NBA talent but for the time being he is absorbing usage on a team that was desperate for it. Just not in love with his defensive limitations or overall style of play. This comment will put a target on my back but I would rather have Franz Wagner than Banchero.

Franz over Paolo is a perfectly reasonable opinion, currently Franz is significantly better, especially in terms of impact (Franz is first on the team in on/off by some margin, Paolo is dead last). Paolo is obviously younger and has more potential for improvement. If I have to pick only one of them, it would be Franz too by a whisker.


Glad I'm not alone- it's a mixture of being lower on Paulo than most and higher on Franz than most. I still think Suggs will be an impact player too if he can stay healthy.
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Re: How does the GB see Paolo? 

Post#77 » by JonFromVA » Wed Mar 8, 2023 10:15 pm

Bergmaniac wrote:
GeorgeMarcus wrote:Not gonna lie, I really don't see it with Paulo. He's obvious a legit NBA talent but for the time being he is absorbing usage on a team that was desperate for it. Just not in love with his defensive limitations or overall style of play. This comment will put a target on my back but I would rather have Franz Wagner than Banchero.

Franz over Paolo is a perfectly reasonable opinion, currently Franz is significantly better, especially in terms of impact (Franz is first on the team in on/off by some margin, Paolo is dead last). Paolo is obviously younger and has more potential for improvement. If I have to pick only one of them, it would be Franz too by a whisker.


We can compare their rookie years, though, and Franz is still doing a lot of things better. That's he's improved his 2nd season is just confirmation of what we saw his rookie season.

It's much easier to project Franz as becoming a productive/successful player because he's already there; whereas Paolo has a lot of steps to take with few natural advantages as his length is not great and he has yet to display superior defense/playmaking/rebounding/shot-making/etc.

Stat-wise he seems to compare to Carmelo Anthony and I see some others made that comparison before the draft. Is that an acceptable upside for him? Personally, if I was an Orlando fan, I'd be hoping for a lot more growth in other areas.
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Re: How does the GB see Paolo? 

Post#78 » by jazzfan1971 » Wed Mar 8, 2023 10:37 pm

HotelVitale wrote:
jazzfan1971 wrote:I thought what I wrote was fairly well balanced.


Well no offense or anything, but it kinda reads like a straight up hit job. :lol:

The post is mostly running with the assumption that he'll be a low efficiency high volume guy, but the wording takes it to another level. You literally say 'those guys will kill you'--and then your attempt to be 'balanced' and show the other side is that, well at least 'these guys can still be All-Stars' even if they're useless team-killing chuckers that won't win you anything. You do technically say in passing at one point 'he could be a franchise savior'--but that's stacked between 6 sentences assuming he'll be a low volume chucker, and your conclusion which says 'he looks like he will be on all-star teams either way, because points.'

You gotta admit it's kinda funny: Magic draft a really promising player and you treat it like youre consoling a friend for his shotgun wedding to a hideous skank. He's a rookie though and anything could happen, maybe your (inadvertent) pessimism will look super smart in a few years.


I think you are just reading what you want to read.
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Re: How does the GB see Paolo? 

Post#79 » by Statlanta » Thu Mar 9, 2023 12:29 am

jazzfan1971 wrote:I thought what I wrote was fairly well balanced.


It was, I live in Orlando and root for the Magic. For a number 1 pick Paolo isn't standing out like Shaq did, he seems to even generate less buzz than Penny or Dwight despite his many "youngest to" stats. I'm mostly fearful he doesn't progress the franchise further than Vucevic considering how many of the very recent #1 picks have just been mediocre players.
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Re: How does the GB see Paolo? 

Post#80 » by stillgotgame » Thu Mar 9, 2023 1:53 am

I like him a lot, watched him in college too. I think MVP potential is a little bit of a stretch but I definitely think he'll be a multiple season All-Star. He has the body and the skills, and seems like a good kid. He's struggled from 3 but it's just a matter of expanding his range out there.
Advanced stats are typically very cruel to high volume rookies. An example would be LeBron's 48.8 TS as a rookie. No one thought he would be a low efficiency chucker. It just takes time and work.
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