Is Fred VanFleet still on the agenda?

[drsd]

It's not impossible, but it is *extremely difficult* to have a good offense when your lead guard doesn't take or make threes. A lack of shooting is really the most cataclysmic flaw a lead guard can have in the modern NBA game.

I do like that Banchero is finding the more transitional way of getting "3s" with all his And-1s. His old-school way of manufacturing points will be a unique asset for Orlando.

But to strongly agree with your narrative: Orlando MUST find a high volume three-ball shooter that is making them at a 36% rate. There are LOADS of these as guards. It is not a tough find.

There are 203 NBA players with a 36% long ball on 5+ 3pt apg. 89 of those players have played more than 50 games this season.

THere are 36 guards in this category, of which 22 are 28 yo or younger.

Here's the of potential Magic saviors:
(( half these players are "gettable"))
All NBA filtered by: i) Guard; ii) 28 yo or younger; iii) 5+ 3pt apg.; iv) 36%+ with 3-ball

Anthony Edwards
Jalen Brunson
Darius Garland
Anfernee Simons
Dejounte Murray
Tyrese Haliburton
Tyler Herro
Jamal Murray
D'Angelo Russell
Immanuel Quickley
Grayson Allen
Monte Morris
De'Anthony Melton
Tyus Jones
Donte DiVincenzo
Isaiah Joe
Jevon Carter
Terence Davis
John Konchar
Christian Braun
Aaron Holiday


And: 100% of these players have an eFG%n at 50% or above !!!!


ADD G-F OVER G, adds these names:
Troy Brown Jr.
Shake Milton
Bruce Brown
Zach LaVine
Aaron Wiggins
Terance Mann
Kevin Huerter

All these also have an eFG% over 650% as well.




There are 29 NBA players that upgrade G-Harris/Suggs shooting at the 2. This just isn't hard.


EDIT: the list is wrong, as search some of these players individually reveals nn-matches (who is John Konchar ???).
But the point holds true, ORLANDO MUST FIND shooting at the 2.


..

[Skybox]

It's not impossible, but it is *extremely difficult* to have a good offense when your lead guard doesn't take or make threes. A lack of shooting is really the most cataclysmic flaw a lead guard can have in the modern NBA game.

I do like that Banchero is finding the more transitional way of getting "3s" with all his And-1s. His old-school way of manufacturing points will be a unique asset for Orlando.

But to strongly agree with your narrative: Orlando MUST find a high volume three-ball shooter that is making them at a 36% rate. There are LOADS of these as guards. It is not a tough find.

There are 203 NBA players with a 36% long ball on 5+ 3pt apg. 89 of those players have played more than 50 games this season.

THere are 36 guards in this category, of which 22 are 28 yo or younger.

Here's the of potential Magic saviors:
(( half these players are "gettable"))
All NBA filtered by: i) Guard; ii) 28 yo or younger; iii) 5+ 3pt apg.; iv) 36%+ with 3-ball

Anthony Edwards
Jalen Brunson
Darius Garland
Anfernee Simons
Dejounte Murray
Tyrese Haliburton
Tyler Herro
Jamal Murray
D'Angelo Russell
Immanuel Quickley
Grayson Allen
Monte Morris
De'Anthony Melton
Tyus Jones
Donte DiVincenzo
Isaiah Joe
Jevon Carter
Terence Davis
John Konchar
Christian Braun
Aaron Holiday


And: 100% of these players have an eFG%n at 50% or above !!!!


ADD G-F OVER G, adds these names:
Troy Brown Jr.
Shake Milton
Bruce Brown
Zach LaVine
Aaron Wiggins
Terance Mann
Kevin Huerter

All these also have an eFG% over 650% as well.




There are 29 NBA players that upgrade G-Harris/Suggs shooting at the 2. This just isn't hard.


EDIT: the list is wrong, as search some of these players individually reveals nn-matches (who is John Konchar ???).
But the point holds true, ORLANDO MUST FIND shooting at the 2.


..

I don't know how many of them are actually available...but some of them would look fantastic next to FVV

Upgrading at PG certainly shouldn't mean we can't also upgrade at SG too. We've got the chips (if we have the cojones to waive guys and move picks) to do it this summer. If we had a true triple-threat PG...I'd LOVE to have a big shooter like Huerter, Herro, or even Grayson Allen next to him. Some of the list are simply not available and some are solid role players on really good teams (that might not blow up in a bigger role)...I really wish we had taken a swing at Shake - who was absolutely gettable for scraps. Terrance Mann appears to be really ingrained in LAC's core-but you never know.

[drsd]

I don't know how many of them are actually available...but some of them would look fantastic next to FVV

Upgrading at PG certainly shouldn't mean we can't also upgrade at SG too. We've got the chips (if we have the cojones to waive guys and move picks) to do it this summer. If we had a true triple-threat PG...I'd LOVE to have a big shooter like Huerter, Herro, or even Grayson Allen next to him. Some of the list are simply not available and some are solid role players on really good teams (that might not blow up in a bigger role)...I really wish we had taken a swing at Shake - who was absolutely gettable for scraps. Terrance Mann appears to be really ingrained in LAC's core-but you never know.

If this was Orlando's depth chart next year, most of us would be happy

VanVleet/Anthony/Some vet
Huerter/Mr. rookie #5
F-Wagner/Houstan/Mr. rookie #7
Banchero/Bol/Okeke
Carter/M-Wagner/Some vet

The idea of moving on from both Fultz and Suggs to land VanVleet makes a lot of sense to me, if the Magic is imagining two new guards to start.

[Skybox]

I don't know how many of them are actually available...but some of them would look fantastic next to FVV

Upgrading at PG certainly shouldn't mean we can't also upgrade at SG too. We've got the chips (if we have the cojones to waive guys and move picks) to do it this summer. If we had a true triple-threat PG...I'd LOVE to have a big shooter like Huerter, Herro, or even Grayson Allen next to him. Some of the list are simply not available and some are solid role players on really good teams (that might not blow up in a bigger role)...I really wish we had taken a swing at Shake - who was absolutely gettable for scraps. Terrance Mann appears to be really ingrained in LAC's core-but you never know.

If this was Orlando's depth chart next year, most of us would be happy

VanVleet/Anthony/Some vet
Huerter/Mr. rookie #5
F-Wagner/Houstan/Mr. rookie #7
Banchero/Bol/Okeke
Carter/M-Wagner/Some vet

The idea of moving on from both Fultz and Suggs to land VanVleet makes a lot of sense to me, if the Magic is imagining two new guards to start.

Love it...I'd prefer to keep Suggs as I think he's got a lot more upside than we've seen, but if it led to the roster above...I'm in. I'd also figure on moving one of those picks if we had to as well as, possibly, a future one if it could lead to big game hunting...I really think it's unlikely that we get FVV for cash alone - these things tend to work out as "forced" sign & trades...so many possibilities, basically ALMOST any player in the league could be available for the right price of picks, players, and cap space.

IF we landed the #2 pick and added Scoot...but still maintained all of the other options..

[Def Swami]

I'm coming around on this idea more. I just want to see what this team looks like with an average, modern point guard that can shoot.

[Knightro]

There are 29 NBA players that upgrade G-Harris/Suggs shooting at the 2. This just isn't hard.

But the point holds true, ORLANDO MUST FIND shooting at the 2.

This is where you and I differ.

It appears you're convinced that the Magic's shooting woes (27th in 3PT volume, 23rd in 3PT accuracy) will be primarily addressed and ultimately solved by improving the SG position.

My feeling is that it will certainly help to get a more willing shooter than Harris in as the starting SG, but it will not really address the true cause of the issues which is Fultz being an extreme low volume guy (on top of being a low accuracy guy) that has the ball in his hands a lot and also is basically ignored when he passes the ball.

Like even if the Magic were to replace Harris with any of the names you mentioned, their primary ball handler and play facilitator still isn't going attempt threes and is going to continue to destroy spacing in the halfcourt.

[Bergmaniac]

If we can get a higher volume excellent shooter than Harris, that would help, of course, but Fultz is a much bigger issue for our 3 point volume. When he is on the court, we shoot 27.9 three per 100 possessions. That would be dead last in the league. When he is offcourt, we shoot 32.2 threes per 100 possessions, still pretty bad, but it would be 21st in the league instead of dead last. The accurasy is virtually the same in both cases (34.6% vs 34.5%)

In Harris' case we take a bit more 3s when he is on the court (31.3) compared to when he is not playing (30.2). And the percentage improves significantly - 37.0% when he plays, 33.6% when he is on the bench.

[AaronB]

I am not big on the Magic signing FVV, but he has to be one of the best interviews in the league.

Read on Twitter

[Tarheel]

I am not big on the Magic signing FVV, but he has to be one of the best interviews in the league.

Read on Twitter

Fair play to him for saying it with his chest

It's obvious to everyone watching how poor the officiating is, good to see someone with the balls to call it out.

[eyriq]

Interesting that the board is split down the middle on FVV.

The more I think about it the more I love the idea. Veteran leader with championship experience. Former all-star with exactly the skill set we need from the lead guard. Great bill of health. After securing his future with a big pay day he'll likely accept his role as a third option with a primary focus to get the ball to Paolo and Franz.

Getting a prime all-star sounds nice but feels too disruptive to our build through the draft strategy. Sticking with Fultz sounds nice but he really needs to knock down shots and I think this ship has sailed.

[pagal]

Interesting that the board is split down the middle on FVV.

The more I think about it the more I love the idea. Veteran leader with championship experience. Former all-star with exactly the skill set we need from the lead guard. Great bill of health. After securing his future with a big pay day he'll likely accept his role as a third option with a primary focus to get the ball to Paolo and Franz.

Getting a prime all-star sounds nice but feels too disruptive to our build through the draft strategy. Sticking with Fultz sounds nice but he really needs to knock down shots and I think this ship has sailed.

Please don't. You all have such an exciting, likeable, young team. As someone who has watched him suck the life out of my beloved team, there's nothing more I want than for him to get the f outta here but I really do enjoy watching your team.

This guy is terrible and a locker room cancer.

[eyriq]

Interesting that the board is split down the middle on FVV.

The more I think about it the more I love the idea. Veteran leader with championship experience. Former all-star with exactly the skill set we need from the lead guard. Great bill of health. After securing his future with a big pay day he'll likely accept his role as a third option with a primary focus to get the ball to Paolo and Franz.

Getting a prime all-star sounds nice but feels too disruptive to our build through the draft strategy. Sticking with Fultz sounds nice but he really needs to knock down shots and I think this ship has sailed.

Please don't. You all have such an exciting, likeable, young team. As someone who has watched him suck the life out of my beloved team, there's nothing more I want than for him to get the f outta here but I really do enjoy watching your team.

This guy is terrible and a locker room cancer.

What are his locker room issues?

[VanWest82]

Interesting that the board is split down the middle on FVV.

The more I think about it the more I love the idea. Veteran leader with championship experience. Former all-star with exactly the skill set we need from the lead guard. Great bill of health. After securing his future with a big pay day he'll likely accept his role as a third option with a primary focus to get the ball to Paolo and Franz.

Getting a prime all-star sounds nice but feels too disruptive to our build through the draft strategy. Sticking with Fultz sounds nice but he really needs to knock down shots and I think this ship has sailed.

Please don't. You all have such an exciting, likeable, young team. As someone who has watched him suck the life out of my beloved team, there's nothing more I want than for him to get the f outta here but I really do enjoy watching your team.

This guy is terrible and a locker room cancer.

What are his locker room issues?

He's the locker room leader and pretty much the opposite of a locker room cancer. There are some irrational posters on the Raptors board who hate FVV because he's "stealing" opportunities from Scottie Barnes despite Barnes not being ready for said opportunities on a team trying to compete. Fred would be an incredible fit on the Magic. It'd suck to lose him to you guys for nothing.

[pagal]

Interesting that the board is split down the middle on FVV.

The more I think about it the more I love the idea. Veteran leader with championship experience. Former all-star with exactly the skill set we need from the lead guard. Great bill of health. After securing his future with a big pay day he'll likely accept his role as a third option with a primary focus to get the ball to Paolo and Franz.

Getting a prime all-star sounds nice but feels too disruptive to our build through the draft strategy. Sticking with Fultz sounds nice but he really needs to knock down shots and I think this ship has sailed.

Please don't. You all have such an exciting, likeable, young team. As someone who has watched him suck the life out of my beloved team, there's nothing more I want than for him to get the f outta here but I really do enjoy watching your team.

This guy is terrible and a locker room cancer.

What are his locker room issues?

It has nothing to do with Scottie. He is simply an abrasive personality and I have seen plenty of it in person.

He is not a good fit for a young and exciting team. Imagine Franz, Paolo running their asses off on fast breaks and this guy walking up the court, dribble the ball for 18-22 seconds and chuck up a wild shot. It will get irritating quite quickly.

He's also an "elite shooter" who is shooting 34% from 3 on almost 9 of them a game. This is not "hate", it's a fact.

[drsd]

Read on Twitter

[drsd]

Read on Twitter

EDIT: youtube version

Watch on YouTube

[zaymon]

Please don't. You all have such an exciting, likeable, young team. As someone who has watched him suck the life out of my beloved team, there's nothing more I want than for him to get the f outta here but I really do enjoy watching your team.

This guy is terrible and a locker room cancer.

What are his locker room issues?

It has nothing to do with Scottie. He is simply an abrasive personality and I have seen plenty of it in person.

He is not a good fit for a young and exciting team. Imagine Franz, Paolo running their asses off on fast breaks and this guy walking up the court, dribble the ball for 18-22 seconds and chuck up a wild shot. It will get irritating quite quickly.

He's also an "elite shooter" who is shooting 34% from 3 on almost 9 of them a game. This is not "hate", it's a fact.

His time of possesion per touch is not that high and his overall time of possesion is higher but also not crazy high. You dont have any good pick and roll players except FVV and Siakam. Numbers show that its Barnes who is hogging the ball without having any real ability to create.
Vanvleet is also 37,4 % 3 point shooter for his carrier.
I have no idea about abrasive personality but your opinion about his game is simply false looking at stats.

[JoshuaPotter]

Yay "insider info" this thread just got spicy again.

Tell us all about your personal experiences @pagal

Just don't post any photos next to Ron Murray.

[MasterGMer]

It's not impossible, but it is *extremely difficult* to have a good offense when your lead guard doesn't take or make threes. A lack of shooting is really the most cataclysmic flaw a lead guard can have in the modern NBA game.

im not a fan of Flltz and the most simple solution is to move him, but still it has to be said that in the past 2 months (25 games) he is scoring 14.7 points on above average TS - 59,60% for Fultz, 58,10% league wise. Is it sustainable - who knows? right now he is proving that he can be ok offensive player even without a 3pt shot.

His individual play is not bad...it's just the limiting effect on making the game easier for the rest of the team that is most people's concern. NO floor spacing from the PG position is not sustainable. Westbrook is again the best example...the guy can put up historic numbers but in today's high-scoring NBA, it's not enough if you're not contributing to your teammates' also getting easier scoring opportunities. Fultz never draws a double and doesn't even pull his own man through picks at the perimeter...he could be scoring 18ppg+ and I'd feel the same.

Then why are we praying for drafting the Thompson twins? They have no shooting either. I'd like to keep Fultz since he is the most efficient scorer on the team, period

[Knightro]

Then why are we praying for drafting the Thompson twins? They have no shooting either. I'd like to keep Fultz since he is the most efficient scorer on the team, period

He's not.