People have been demanding a ring from Jokic. What about Luka?

[dcstanley]

People that call the 2012 and 2013 Heat "super teams" kinda reveal they don't know what they're actually talking about and are just reading box scores and names on a roster list. It's like saying the Wizards in 02 and 03 had Michael Jordan and therefore should have been in the playoffs.

This is re-writing history. Just because players under-performed doesn't mean they didn't form and play on a super team. I mean they won 2 championships b2b, and if LeBron didn't vastly underperform in '11 they would have had 3 in a row. Nothing remotely like the Wizards in 02 or 03, this is just plain wild. LeBron certainly did expect to win many championships in a row, hence the "Not 1, Not 2" -- can't believe I even have to write this.

So yeah I do know what I'm talking about, I was following the NBA closely at the time and the team was expected to dominate the entire league. Now 10 years later people like you are re-writing what actually happened.

Did Lebron expect Bosh to miss half of the 2012 playoffs or that Wade's knees were so shot in 2013 that he nearly retired? Does none of that matter because they incorrectly assumed they would all be at the peak of the powers when teaming up? The intention might have been a super-team but that wasn't the reality for most of their four seasons together.

https://www.si.com/nba/2019/03/18/dwyane-wade-retirement-miami-heat-big-3-era-knee-pain
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/2013/05/14/dwyane-wade-bruised-right-knee-injury-miami-heat/2157237/

[MyUniBroDavis]

Okay the 2017 Warriors were like if the avengers got goku bruh that was ridiculous lmao

[parsnips33]

I can buy arguments about Wade's decline as a player, but Bosh missing games due to injury shouldn't factor into the calculus IMO. Are 2018 and 2019 Warriors not super teams because Steph/KD missed time in the playoffs due to injury? Seems a hard case to make

[MyUniBroDavis]

You know they really gonna fix Jokic defensive impact stuff in the playoffs by getting the worst defensive center in the league as his backup lol

[Chronz]

I can buy arguments about Wade's decline as a player, but Bosh missing games due to injury shouldn't factor into the calculus IMO. Are 2018 and 2019 Warriors not super teams because Steph/KD missed time in the playoffs due to injury? Seems a hard case to make

Tbh, just having Wade in peak form instead of load managed would be game breaking. I really thought Wade looked better than ever against Dallas in 11, and even in that series his body broke down. The guy just couldn't handle the kind of load necessary to put the heat on that level consistently. If you look at peak heat during their absurd winning streak , both Wade AND Bron were posting MJ quality lines.

What made it so much harder for Bron was that it all coincided with numerous injuries. Mike Miller and udonis haslem became husks of their former selves after injuries. I just think it's a team that should've been super but was exposed to kryptonite throughout

[DonaldSanders]

People that call the 2012 and 2013 Heat "super teams" kinda reveal they don't know what they're actually talking about and are just reading box scores and names on a roster list. It's like saying the Wizards in 02 and 03 had Michael Jordan and therefore should have been in the playoffs.

This is re-writing history. Just because players under-performed doesn't mean they didn't form and play on a super team. I mean they won 2 championships b2b, and if LeBron didn't vastly underperform in '11 they would have had 3 in a row. Nothing remotely like the Wizards in 02 or 03, this is just plain wild. LeBron certainly did expect to win many championships in a row, hence the "Not 1, Not 2" -- can't believe I even have to write this.

So yeah I do know what I'm talking about, I was following the NBA closely at the time and the team was expected to dominate the entire league. Now 10 years later people like you are re-writing what actually happened.

Did Lebron expect Bosh to miss half of the 2012 playoffs or that Wade's knees were so shot in 2013 that he nearly retired? Does none of that matter because they incorrectly assumed they would all be at the peak of the powers when teaming up? The intention might have been a super-team but that wasn't the reality for most of their four seasons together.

https://www.si.com/nba/2019/03/18/dwyane-wade-retirement-miami-heat-big-3-era-knee-pain
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/2013/05/14/dwyane-wade-bruised-right-knee-injury-miami-heat/2157237/

I assume you don't think the 2018-19 Warriors were a super team then due to KD's injuries?

No LeBron didn't expect injuries, but they happen to a lot of super teams. It's fair to say the '13 team was weaker, and Wade's performance declined each year on the team (but still was good until 13-14). But you cannot in good faith say that at minimum, the '11 team is not a super team. This means that yes, they were a super team (though I'd argue they were more than that a 1 year super team). You can argue that they stopped being a super team at some point, but you can't argue in good faith that they never were a super team.

[trex_8063]

I would say this season is the first time either has had a ring worthy cast (Jokic), though certainly not to the level folks should be deeply disappointed if they don't win.

Well said.

And to be clear: I think this cast is only "ring worthy" because it's built around a player as phenomenal as Jokic. Seriously, even putting this cast around someone as amazing as prime Kawhi Leonard, and it suddenly feels less "ring worthy" and more "close but no cigar".

[capfan33]

I can buy arguments about Wade's decline as a player, but Bosh missing games due to injury shouldn't factor into the calculus IMO. Are 2018 and 2019 Warriors not super teams because Steph/KD missed time in the playoffs due to injury? Seems a hard case to make

That honestly might say more about how absurd it was to have KD, Steph, and Draymond on the same team than it does anything else. There are quite a few superteams throughout NBA history but I think the Warriors are still singular in that regard.

[Texas Chuck]

I don't demand a ring from anyone. What a bizarre notion. But everyone's favorite myth had one when he was Jokic's current age so acting like he's a failed bit is laughable on the surface. Luka isn't even an MVP caliber player yet and he's 4 years younger so even more silly to be demanding rings.

[Texas Chuck]

Luka hasn't yet had a terrible roster in his career, nor bad I'd say. Not stellar either, but certainly not terrible.

His rookie year roster was not good. Impossible to suggest otherwise really. But yeah he's had decent teammates other than that.

[Jaivl]

Luka hasn't yet had a terrible roster in his career, nor bad I'd say. Not stellar either, but certainly not terrible.

His rookie year roster was not good. Impossible to suggest otherwise really. But yeah he's had decent teammates other than that.

I kinda was referring to all-NBA Luka, but yeah you're right.

[Ein Sof]

For all the talk of Bron's help, Love was pretty much worthless in the 2016 Finals.

Why is it wrong to expect prime Luka to beat a wide-open league with Kyrie? It can't be that hard to win with him, can it?

[Texas Chuck]

For all the talk of Bron's help, Love was pretty much worthless in the 2016 Finals.

Why is it wrong to expect prime Luka to beat a wide-open league with Kyrie? It can't be that hard to win with him, can it?

You are asking if its unfair to suggest Luka should be a heavy championship favorite because he now plays with Kyrie? Yes, obviously.

Do you believe that to be the best duo in the league? I don't. And some of the duos as good or better also have better fitting pieces around them. Maxi Kleber is a good defender. Reggie Bullock Jr is a fine defender. Justin Holiday is at least neutral. Everyone else is a poor defender and in several cases, tragically poor.

Dallas is exactly what one could reasonably expect-- a very dangerous offense team and an absolutely horrific defensive one. Those teams are never among the favorites let alone an overwhelming one where anyone should be demanding Luka leads Dallas to a ring this year.

Now if Kyrie re-signs and the FO shifts some of the payroll from offensive-minded players (Wood, Powell, Hardaway Jr, Bertans) to some more defensive minded ones, I think expectations should be fairly high for Dallas. Though titles run through the very best players in the league as a pretty hard and fast rule. The exceptions are rare. Luka isn't yet an MVP level player despite the pre-season hype every year.

[Warriors Analyst]

For all the talk of Bron's help, Love was pretty much worthless in the 2016 Finals.

Why is it wrong to expect prime Luka to beat a wide-open league with Kyrie? It can't be that hard to win with him, can it?

I will scream this until I'm red in the face: the Warriors got blown out by the Cavs in Game 3, the one game Love missed. I will never not be convinced that if Love is healthy, the series ends in a sweep.