Official Scottie Barnes Thread - Part 5

[HumbleRen]

Brogdon was like 25 at the time. Simmons was living off the hype of being the first overall.

Simmons was legit good lol. Light years ahead of Scottie in his first 2 years.

My point is, ROTY award is meaningless to bring up. It does not mean you’re going to be better than your peers for the years to come.

We also don’t treat him like the rookie of the year. I think at this point it’s obvious that Nurse, Masai, the staff in general view Barnes as like a 3rd/4th option type (which is why I guess they so heavily feature Siakam and Fred even though that core has a limited ceiling).

No other reason to not run plays for him, to not feature him in places he excels at (the block, short corner post up, high post, etc). And instead have have him be the corner sitter or dho and then dunkers spot/ wing spot up.

Part of it could be because Nurse doesn’t know how to run an offense but I genuinely think they don’t view him as a high ceiling guy and so don’t treat him like one.

I think its a combination of both. He’s not really that skilled to take on a high usage role but at the same time, he’s in a dreadful place to develop.

Nurse is inept at offence, not putting his guys into spots to thrive in and the coaching staff has him playing PG, Wing and Center on any given night. How is a 21 year old supposed to find consistency in that.

It’s funny how people thought the Cavs would ruin Mobley’s development yet it’s been the opposite and it’s the Raptors who have been absolutely fumbling it.

[AbC?]

Should of just drafted Wagner if the FO never intended to rebuild.

Rebuilding or not he would have been a better selection, hindsight bias obviously.

But yeah he would have been an excellent fit in our current starting lineup. Legit floor spacer, better guard defender than Barnes, can actually apply rim pressure, can run PnR actions through him, elite cutter off-ball. Would have solved a tonne of roster construction issues we have now.

[Wise80]

They built a horrendous roster man lol.

It’s a terrible fit for everyone aside from FVV because he has Poeltl now as a PNR partner.

I don't know what to make of it. I never expected this management to build such a bad roster. In terms of talent and fit. But especially fit.

They basically said to hell with where the game is going and shunned shooting and playmaking, in favour of length.

Let's see what they do this off season. I wonder what they discovered this deadline in terms of what's out there for trades in the summer. They're not going to be sellers, but rather equal value swaps.

There’s going to be nothing out there for them unless they want to trade Scottie and OG for a star.

GTJ and FVV have no value due to being free agents. You’re never going to get equal value for them in the off season.

They screwed the pooch, it’s going to take YEARS to recover from their mistakes over the last 3 years.

That's what I think as well. But part of me thinks that there is no way there plan is to bring this team back minus Boucher for cap reasons.

They just simply can't think this is a good team. They must have some options to choose from this off season that they like.

[OakleyDokely]

The fact that Scottie is struggling with efficiency isn't some rare problem.

Here are the top 7 picks from the draft class and their TS% this year:

1. Cade: 49
2. Green: 53
3. Mobley: 59
5. Barnes: 52
6. Giddey: 53
7. Wagner: 59

The only 2 guys who are above average are Mobley and Wagner and Wagner is the only guy who is able to create his own offense consistently.

[C_Money]

I don't know what to make of it. I never expected this management to build such a bad roster. In terms of talent and fit. But especially fit.

They basically said to hell with where the game is going and shunned shooting and playmaking, in favour of length.

Let's see what they do this off season. I wonder what they discovered this deadline in terms of what's out there for trades in the summer. They're not going to be sellers, but rather equal value swaps.

There’s going to be nothing out there for them unless they want to trade Scottie and OG for a star.

GTJ and FVV have no value due to being free agents. You’re never going to get equal value for them in the off season.

They screwed the pooch, it’s going to take YEARS to recover from their mistakes over the last 3 years.

That's what I think as well. But part of me thinks that there is no way there plan is to bring this team back minus Boucher for cap reasons.

They just simply can't think this is a good team. They must have some options to choose from this off season that they like.

I think that is exactly what they will do. Maybe even GTJ walks for nothing and Boucher stays.

[Los_29]

So did Ben Simmons and Malcolm Brogdon.

What's your point? I don't even think you have a point because it makes absolutely no sense.

6’10 player who can score at 3 levels or 6’8 player who’s a 1 level scorer.

Who’s the better fit for a win now team that has no spacing.

I’ll let you think on it champ.

That has nothing to do with the point you just made. Scottie won the ROTY, Franz didn't. Scottie was clearly able to develop his game on a team that won 48 games. Just like Tatum and Brown were able to develop their games on 50 win teams. Green, Suggs and Cade can't develop and yet they are on rebuilding teams. And do you know how old Brogdon was when he won ROTY?

I'm a huge Franz fan but he just doesn't have the ability to be a difference maker. At least with Scottie, the ability is there. Ceiling always wins out.

[HumbleRen]

What's your point? I don't even think you have a point because it makes absolutely no sense.

6’10 player who can score at 3 levels or 6’8 player who’s a 1 level scorer.

Who’s the better fit for a win now team that has no spacing.

I’ll let you think on it champ.

That has nothing to do with the point you just made. Scottie won the ROTY, Franz didn't. Scottie was clearly able to develop his game on a team that won 48 games. Just like Tatum and Brown were able to develop their games on 50 win teams. Green, Suggs and Cade can't develop and yet they are on rebuilding teams. And do you know how old Brogdon was when he won ROTY?

I'm a huge Franz fan but he just doesn't have the ability to be a difference maker. At least with Scottie, the ability is there. Ceiling always wins out.

What exactly are you saying man lol.

[Wise80]

Simmons was legit good lol. Light years ahead of Scottie in his first 2 years.

My point is, ROTY award is meaningless to bring up. It does not mean you’re going to be better than your peers for the years to come.

nah not even. light years? you sound dumb bruh. go trade for Wagner. haha.

Yes even lol. A walking 16/8/8 guy with top 10 defence. Dont let the new Ben Simmons cloud your judgement on how good he was in his first 2 years.

Way better handles. Way better defense. Way more athletic. Way better passer. He imposed his will on the game for his first few years. If scottie was even close to Ben Simmons in his first two years, we'd be a completely different team.

[Raps in 4]

nah not even. light years? you sound dumb bruh. go trade for Wagner. haha.

Yes even lol. A walking 16/8/8 guy with top 10 defence. Dont let the new Ben Simmons cloud your judgement on how good he was in his first 2 years.

Way better handles. Way better defense. Way more athletic. Way better passer. He imposed his will on the game for his first few years. If scottie was even close to Ben Simmons in his first two years, we'd be a completely different team.

Scottie is better right now (offensively) than Simmons ever was.

[HumbleRen]

Yes even lol. A walking 16/8/8 guy with top 10 defence. Dont let the new Ben Simmons cloud your judgement on how good he was in his first 2 years.

Way better handles. Way better defense. Way more athletic. Way better passer. He imposed his will on the game for his first few years. If scottie was even close to Ben Simmons in his first two years, we'd be a completely different team.

Scottie is better right now (offensively) than Simmons ever was.

Eh. Scottie is more willing to do more things but that doesn’t mean it’s efficient or anywhere near that.

The defensive gap is significantly wider than the offensive gap.

Don’t get me wrong, I expect Scottie to become a better overall player but Ben Simmons in his first 2 years was an elite 2 way player.

[Raps in 4]

Way better handles. Way better defense. Way more athletic. Way better passer. He imposed his will on the game for his first few years. If scottie was even close to Ben Simmons in his first two years, we'd be a completely different team.

Scottie is better right now (offensively) than Simmons ever was.

Eh. Scottie is more willing to do more things but that doesn’t mean it’s efficient or anywhere near that.

The defensive gap is significantly wider than the offensive gap.

Don’t get me wrong, I expect Scottie to become a better overall player but Ben Simmons in his first 2 years was an elite 2 way player.

Simmons has 36 3PA in his entire career, spanning 5 seasons. Scottie has 388 across 2 seasons.

There is a gulf-sized gap between them offensively. Dwfences can't completely ignore Scottie outside the paint like they can Simmons.

Simmons was one of the most prolific defenders in the league, I'll give him that.

[HumbleRen]

Scottie is better right now (offensively) than Simmons ever was.

Eh. Scottie is more willing to do more things but that doesn’t mean it’s efficient or anywhere near that.

The defensive gap is significantly wider than the offensive gap.

Don’t get me wrong, I expect Scottie to become a better overall player but Ben Simmons in his first 2 years was an elite 2 way player.

Simmons has 36 3PA in his entire career, spanning 5 seasons. Scottie has 388 across 2 seasons.

There is a gulf-sized gap between them offensively. Dwfences can't completely ignore Scottie outside the paint like they can Simmons.

Again, you’re confusing versatility vs the actual results.

It’s great that Scottie has so many 3 point attempts but he’s also shooting 29-30% from the 3 lol.

When Scottie starts being efficient, that’s when the offensive gap opens up.

[WaltFrazier]

I was saying last game, and other games, if he can do the 4th quarter Scottie thing why can't he do it for a whole game. Tonight he did, right from the start.

[Tha Cynic]

Should of just drafted Wagner if the FO never intended to rebuild.

Even if they were never planning to rebuild you take Barnes over Wagner lol. Barnes has a way better overall game and takeover ability.

[HumbleRen]

Should of just drafted Wagner if the FO never intended to rebuild.

Even if they were never planning to rebuild you take Barnes over Wagner lol. Barnes has a way better overall game and takeover ability.

No to the former, yes to the latter.

[Sidthekid87]

Too low on Scottie. I don't think we take into account that he hasn't been able to play his natural position this entire season. He's a point 4. He's been playing **** SG lol. Everyone chill. He has IT. There's a reason that he goes off every 4th, or during these nice prime time matchups he's the one who steps up. Y'all gotta be patient with the kid. He's going to be a star. If they can just pair him with an elite bucket getter and some shooters I still think he has the potential to be the best player on a chip team. Idk if this deal would work out but I'd look into a Siakam for anfirnee Simmons package in the offseason.

[Wise80]

Eh. Scottie is more willing to do more things but that doesn’t mean it’s efficient or anywhere near that.

The defensive gap is significantly wider than the offensive gap.

Don’t get me wrong, I expect Scottie to become a better overall player but Ben Simmons in his first 2 years was an elite 2 way player.

Simmons has 36 3PA in his entire career, spanning 5 seasons. Scottie has 388 across 2 seasons.

There is a gulf-sized gap between them offensively. Dwfences can't completely ignore Scottie outside the paint like they can Simmons.

Again, you’re confusing versatility vs the actual results.

It’s great that Scottie has so many 3 point attempts but he’s also shooting 29-30% from the 3 lol.

When Scottie starts being efficient, that’s when the offensive gap opens up.

Reminds me of the whole Bargnani argument. "But he's 7 foot and he shoots 3s." While completely ignoring what he was bad at.

Like you said. Versatility and actual results.

[HumbleRen]

Simmons has 36 3PA in his entire career, spanning 5 seasons. Scottie has 388 across 2 seasons.

There is a gulf-sized gap between them offensively. Dwfences can't completely ignore Scottie outside the paint like they can Simmons.

Again, you’re confusing versatility vs the actual results.

It’s great that Scottie has so many 3 point attempts but he’s also shooting 29-30% from the 3 lol.

When Scottie starts being efficient, that’s when the offensive gap opens up.

Reminds me of the whole Bargnani argument. "But he's 7 foot and he shoots 3s." While completely ignoring what he was bad at.

Like you said. Versatility and actual results.

Yep.

I'll give Scottie this though, he's probably the one player on the roster that's been put in the hardest places to succeed. We've seen how ass Siakam has been when he's been pushed off to an off ball role over the last 2 weeks.

[djsunyc]

tank and rebuild.
criticize the hell out of a 2nd year 21 year old player.
realgm.

[Tha Cynic]

So Scottie has been working on the Siakam, chest bump fadeaway from midrange and the OG dribble into the paint, step-back fadeaway.

He looks smoother on both of those than the other two. Very good signs.

I have maintained that he is someone who gets better in season through reps. He's one of those guys you just need to up his usage, and you'll see bigger leaps.