Fred VanVleet Specifically Calls Out Referee Ben Taylor and NBA Reffing

[balla4lyf23]

In the games against the Knicks the Raptors were able to push, shove, hack & whack, but you didn't hear him bitching about that.
I think it's more about being 4 games under 500 and shooting poor when he wanted to opt out & sign a new deal.

someone sounds like an upset knicks fan

[balla4lyf23]

The Raptors don't have anyone thats aggressive one to get FT's at a high rate. Every fan thinks their team is getting hosed, there is no bias against the Raptors. No need to play the victem card.

The Raptors win the possession battle most games. They attack the paint more than they shoot threes. They should be a top FTA team in the league. It is just logical.

But you have refs taking calls from league officials letting them know how much "physicality" they're allowing that game. Is that a part of the sport called basketball.

The Raptors have no business complaining about the officiating. They're athletic, but not skilled which is why it's easy to frustrate them inside playing perfectly legal defense. A lot of their guys still drop their shoulders into defenders and expect to get the call despite initiating the contact. The thing is, they're not even good at ref baiting, it's entirely too obvious that they're looking for the call and not the conversion.

Defensively, they reach all the time. No other team gambles that much. The idea that they're going to get away with that for 82 games, 48 minutes a game, home or away is delusional. It's one thing to play a certain way and then adjust to how a game is being called. It's something quite different to expect that you should be allowed to foul on a consistent basis.

this is a horrendous take by you

[Rockazoids]

In the games against the Knicks the Raptors were able to push, shove, hack & whack, but you didn't hear him bitching about that.
I think it's more about being 4 games under 500 and shooting poor when he wanted to opt out & sign a new deal.

someone sounds like an upset knicks fan

No I'm good I can always just look at were NY is in the standing at 11 games over 500.
Randle could had just bitched about the BS that Smart was got away with in the NYK BOS game. Smart was all in Randle space
so he couldn't make a move without bumping in to Smart. What did Randle do... took care of it on the court.

[robbie84]

he might have 5 of 8 techs, but is it Ben Taylor targeting Van Fleet or is it Van Fleet getting triggered by Taylor and getting snappy/yappy with Taylor?

I'm assuming Taylor is just a bit of a douche (he looks like one), but has anyone seen all 8 techs? Are they really 'over the top' for Van Fleet to get them?

[VancouverRaps]

he might have 5 of 8 techs, but is it Ben Taylor targeting Van Fleet or is it Van Fleet getting triggered by Taylor and getting snappy/yappy with Taylor?

Watch on YouTube

[Kingdibs19]

he might have 5 of 8 techs, but is it Ben Taylor targeting Van Fleet or is it Van Fleet getting triggered by Taylor and getting snappy/yappy with Taylor?

Watch on YouTube

Lol at all the Captains coming to this shameful ref’s defence. As if 5 out of 8 is not enough proof, they come up with some kind of mental gymnastics to say FVV probably still deserved it. Well now what’s next after seeing this video? More gymnastics or just silence?

[jbk1234]

The Raptors win the possession battle most games. They attack the paint more than they shoot threes. They should be a top FTA team in the league. It is just logical.

But you have refs taking calls from league officials letting them know how much "physicality" they're allowing that game. Is that a part of the sport called basketball.

The Raptors have no business complaining about the officiating. They're athletic, but not skilled which is why it's easy to frustrate them inside playing perfectly legal defense. A lot of their guys still drop their shoulders into defenders and expect to get the call despite initiating the contact. The thing is, they're not even good at ref baiting, it's entirely too obvious that they're looking for the call and not the conversion.

Defensively, they reach all the time. No other team gambles that much. The idea that they're going to get away with that for 82 games, 48 minutes a game, home or away is delusional. It's one thing to play a certain way and then adjust to how a game is being called. It's something quite different to expect that you should be allowed to foul on a consistent basis.

this is a horrendous take by you

Settle down Mr. Nurse.

[Zombiesonics]

Very measured and articulate, I love this from FVV. These incompetent refs can't keep escaping criticism just because , " OH well, people make mistakes". What i'm specifically referring to is when refs hand out techs like lollipops, I mean wtf is going on? FVV lightly tosses the ball at the stanchion and causes zero disruption ( he didn't slam the ball into the stands) garners a tech?

[nikster]

Read on Twitter

Wonder if we will have more players just shout out to Fred's rant when asked about officials

[LightTheBeam]

Good for FVV. I wish this would actually help, but more than likely it just puts a target on his back from the ref mafia. Now all of them will be watching FVV every move.

[jbk1234]

Read on Twitter

Wonder if we will have more players just shout out to Fred's rant when asked about officials

Smart is not the player you want endorsing you.

[robbie84]

he might have 5 of 8 techs, but is it Ben Taylor targeting Van Fleet or is it Van Fleet getting triggered by Taylor and getting snappy/yappy with Taylor?

Watch on YouTube

Lol at all the Captains coming to this shameful ref’s defence. As if 5 out of 8 is not enough proof, they come up with some kind of mental gymnastics to say FVV probably still deserved. Well now what’s next after seeing this video? More gymnastics or just silence?

Are you high? I even edited the question after posting it to clarify, because of mega brain assumptions like yours. That throwing the ball lightly against the hoop padding was bogus and shouldn't be a tech at all.

If Van Fleet has 5 techs with one ref, it's also possible that he has an issue too, and they are BOTH at fault. It could be just the ref, but if Van Fleet doesn't like this ref or the way he officiates, then there's way more fuel for fire.

[JustLucky]

In the games against the Knicks the Raptors were able to push, shove, hack & whack, but you didn't hear him bitching about that.
I think it's more about being 4 games under 500 and shooting poor when he wanted to opt out & sign a new deal.

someone sounds like an upset knicks fan

No I'm good I can always just look at were NY is in the standing at 11 games over 500.
Randle could had just bitched about the BS that Smart was got away with in the NYK BOS game. Smart was all in Randle space
so he couldn't make a move without bumping in to Smart. What did Randle do... took care of it on the court.

congrats dude for the first time in 12 years your team is slightly ahead of the raptors in the standing. huge achievement

[Chuck Everett]

He just painted a target on his back. Not smart.

So you believe the NBA refs would collude against Van Vleet and the Raptors? If so, the NBA doesn't have a problem with the officiating? That only validates what Fred is talking about.

[druggas]

He just painted a target on his back. Not smart.

So you believe the NBA refs would collude against Van Vleet and the Raptors? If so, the NBA doesn't have a problem with the officiating? That only validates what Fred is talking about.

If you think referees aren't human and they just let stuff like this drop, you're kidding yourself. Referees have always had their favorites and they listen to players if they aren't whining on every call. But when you go to the media and call them out by name, you probably won't get any favorable calls. That's where he made his mistake. He could have let his coach rant about the refs which would have been better for him in the long run.

[Mickey8]

I don't think players should be getting fines after they criticize the refs after the games. That's just the method for the league to rip off basketball players financially.

[Courtside]

There needs to be a review mechanism of the officiating that includes representation from the NBAPA and from the teams, perhaps a couple of delegates from the PA and BoG. Ideally, it's a larger scale process like rating system that players and teams vote on, and every season the bottom 4 referees get relegated to the GLeague for a season, or to lose the ability to ref playoff games, or to have their number of assignments reduced, etc... Something tangible that affects positive change.

There is presently no accountability in place for the officials - at least not one that the public sees, or that is effective in moving things in a better direction - so something like this motivates the referees to maintain a more positive reputation in order to not be one of the relegated officials. It basically encourages them to be as accurate as possible (something they do generally strive for), to show more consistency with how they treat players regardless of star status, and to avoid becoming hostile or problematic in a way where they EARN the kind of league wide reputation that ensures they get downvoted. This would largely suppress the power trips that they occasionally go on, which are the most glaring

I would also suggest some sort of publicly available stat tracking WRT to how each ref calls the game. This would make visible any patterns that develop in terms of for/against every team, for/against home or away teams, for/against individual players or coaches (ie: 5 of 8 FVV techs this season in games with Ben Taylor). The refs would then need to work to maintain a neutrality score, as anything that deviates from neutral would be open to all.

The next CBA is being negotiated RIGHT NOW, and considering that Silver is already talking about ways to improve in this area, it seems like something already being discussed in some way where the league is attempting to avoid any serious change by placating the teams and players with promises that small tweaks will make things better. It should be noted that they have made many small tweaks in recent years, only to see the refs move away from those changes by the time 20 games or so gave been played. Nothing seems to stick, as the rules always seem to allow for enough referee discretion in how the rules are applied.

That discretional leeway is largely the source of most issues in the game today.

FVV should probably run for president of the player's union - he'd win in a landslide. That clout should matter at least a little when he speaks to media about these sorts of issues.

[Chuck Everett]

He just painted a target on his back. Not smart.

So you believe the NBA refs would collude against Van Vleet and the Raptors? If so, the NBA doesn't have a problem with the officiating? That only validates what Fred is talking about.

If you think referees aren't human and they just let stuff like this drop, you're kidding yourself. Referees have always had their favorites and they listen to players if they aren't whining on every call. But when you go to the media and call them out by name, you probably won't get any favorable calls. That's where he made his mistake. He could have let his coach rant about the refs which would have been better for him in the long run.

They're "human" is your excuse for collusion and willingly being corrupt. Then I should just stop watching professional basketball. That is 100% horse excrement.

[Courtside]

He just painted a target on his back. Not smart.

So you believe the NBA refs would collude against Van Vleet and the Raptors? If so, the NBA doesn't have a problem with the officiating? That only validates what Fred is talking about.

If you think referees aren't human and they just let stuff like this drop, you're kidding yourself. Referees have always had their favorites and they listen to players if they aren't whining on every call. But when you go to the media and call them out by name, you probably won't get any favorable calls. That's where he made his mistake. He could have let his coach rant about the refs which would have been better for him in the long run.

That worry is definitely the reason that the majority of players in league history have been afraid to speak up in this way, because they KNOW that the refs can act with near impunity to get back at a player or team who crosses that invisible line in the sand.

This is the first time in a long while that it's been so direct - Iverson vs Javie was probably the last time - and that went TERRIBLY for Iverson, as the officials open;y punished him for weeks afterwards with bad calls, non calls, etc... Thing is, there was a gambling scandal since then (Donaghy), social media has become a very powerful presence, and most of all, the entire NBA world will now be focused on the outcome of this. If there is any sort of directed retribution by the officials, it will backfire very badly for the league.

Fred is going to get at least the max $50K fine, plus some sort of suspension that loses him even more money, rather than a much bigger fine that would have to go through arbitration to enforce - something the league probably wants to avoid as it would give Fred, the Raptors, and the NBAPA an opportunity to file grievances over, which would blow this up into an even bigger thing.

[jbk1234]

There needs to be a review mechanism of the officiating that includes representation from the NBAPA and from the teams, perhaps a couple of delegates from the PA and BoG. Ideally, it's a larger scale process like rating system that players and teams vote on, and every season the bottom 4 referees get relegated to the GLeague for a season, or to lose the ability to ref playoff games, or to have their number of assignments reduced, etc... Something tangible that affects positive change.

There is presently no accountability in place for the officials - at least not one that the public sees, or that is effective in moving things in a better direction - so something like this motivates the referees to maintain a more positive reputation in order to not be one of the relegated officials. It basically encourages them to be as accurate as possible (something they do generally strive for), to show more consistency with how they treat players regardless of star status, and to avoid becoming hostile or problematic in a way where they EARN the kind of league wide reputation that ensures they get downvoted. This would largely suppress the power trips that they occasionally go on, which are the most glaring

I would also suggest some sort of publicly available stat tracking WRT to how each ref calls the game. This would make visible any patterns that develop in terms of for/against every team, for/against home or away teams, for/against individual players or coaches (ie: 5 of 8 FVV techs this season in games with Ben Taylor). The refs would then need to work to maintain a neutrality score, as anything that deviates from neutral would be open to all.

The next CBA is being negotiated RIGHT NOW, and considering that Silver is already talking about ways to improve in this area, it seems like something already being discussed in some way where the league is attempting to avoid any serious change by placating the teams and players with promises that small tweaks will make things better. It should be noted that they have made many small tweaks in recent years, only to see the refs move away from those changes by the time 20 games or so gave been played. Nothing seems to stick, as the rules always seem to allow for enough referee discretion in how the rules are applied.

That discretional leeway is largely the source of most issues in the game today.

FVV should probably run for president of the player's union - he'd win in a landslide. That clout should matter at least a little when he speaks to media about these sorts of issues.

If I ran the union, the very last thing I'd want is to get into disputes over how the game is called. That's a great way to divide your members.