NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2022-23 (pt 3)

[MartyConlonOnTheRun]

The Bucks just won again without Giannis against a playoff team. The Bucks are 9-5 without Giannis this season, but it's more like 11-5 because he played like 6 minutes in two games and the Bucks ended up winning.

On top of that, he's now missed more games than Embiid and Jokic.

Please team me more about this game?

You are either are posting without looking or purposefully being misleading. The playoff team is the same Nets that traded away their two best players.....

Then they sat out a few starters.....

Then those new starters only played one quarter.....

...and it was still a tie game with a minute left.

Like I think the bucks are damn good but you are throwing useless stats out there. Go back and look at the bucks wins without Giannis. A lot of spurs, thunder and tanking nets in those 9 wins.

I'm not mad you don't think Giannis deserves a MVP and agree with you, but this posting seems purposely misleading

It's over Marty, and you know it.

I said I would vote for Jokic this year and would've voted for him the past 2 years if anyone gave a **** about my opinion.

I just find it really weird you keep pushing this weird narrative about the record when Giannis sit when it is so surface-level misleading and there are soooo many other really good reasons Jokic has this locked down.

Again, you made a big deal about a otherwise full strength Bucks team against a Nets team that had the leading minutes of the corpses of Patty Mills 30 mins, Dayron Sharpe 30 min, Watanabe, David Duke (not that one), Cam Thomas (no longer dropping 40), Dru Smith, street FA Noel 18 min, Like no one legitimately looks at that game, see the Bucks tied with a minute left and go...... "see I told you Giannis isn't important".

Just really weird that people have posted context on the Bucks record without Giannis, yet you continue to post about it like it means something. Just focus on how good Jokic is instead of falsely trying to tear down other great players in this race,

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/antetgi01/gamelog/2023
You can easily see the teams Giannis sat against, and the results. I think the Bucks only beat 2 playoff teams and that was the Nets (see above) and the Suns game was right after the trade with no KD. It's not like they are destroying teams with top playoff seeding.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/antetgi01/gamelog/2023

[csh 19792001]

Embiid's subpar games are far better than Joker's lol.

No they aren't.

Based on Game Score, which encompasses everything:

10 is NBA average, 20+ is a great game, 30+ is a tremendous game, and 40+ is all time great.

Embiid has played 130 games the past two years, including the playoffs.

-13 games 15 or less Game Score
-36 games 30+ Game Score

Jokic has played 137 games the past two years, including the playoffs:

-7 games 15 or less Game Score
-41 games 30+ Game Score

Ergo, Jokic has far fewer "bad" games than Embiid. And he has had more amazing games, also.

Eyeatoma: Is Embiid your MVP at this point? If so, why?

[kuclas]

I’m surprised Jokic has missed 8 games already.

With Denver up by 6 games in the standings in the depleted western conference. I could see Jokic resting 3 or more games. Meaning he will play 71 games. Around tied for least games played by nba mvp.

Moving forward. I doubt Jokic wants to play more than 72-73 games a season. Or even less.

KD is always injured. I don’t see Giannis playing more than 70 games ever. Embiid. You are lucky to get 66 games out of him.

So if Jokic plays 68 games next season. And a young guy like tatums plays 76 games. Assuming similar seasons like this season and team records

Does Jokic get dinged on games played?

[Exp0sed]

I’m surprised Jokic has missed 8 games already.

With Denver up by 6 games in the standings in the depleted western conference. I could see Jokic resting 3 or more games. Meaning he will play 71 games. Around tied for least games played by nba mvp.

Moving forward. I doubt Jokic wants to play more than 72-73 games a season. Or even less.

KD is always injured. I don’t see Giannis playing more than 70 games ever. Embiid. You are lucky to get 66 games out of him.

So if Jokic plays 68 games next season. And a young guy like tatums plays 76 games. Assuming similar seasons like this season and team records

Does Jokic get dinged on games played?

3-4 of those 8 are Covid protocols earlier in the season

Jokic would like to coast more and more as he ages (and the team around him gets better, hopefully, which means less need for him to play close to maximum level) but imo he doesn't like to sit out, I doubt he'll want to play as little as 68 games but who know

and yeah, ofc he'll get "dinged" by it if he does miss considerable time
it's not his fault these past couple of years all his direct competitors missed alot more games (in every season)
if that changed, that's a major factor for sure

u can't be MVP in street clothes from the bench

[kuclas]

I’m surprised Jokic has missed 8 games already.

With Denver up by 6 games in the standings in the depleted western conference. I could see Jokic resting 3 or more games. Meaning he will play 71 games. Around tied for least games played by nba mvp.

Moving forward. I doubt Jokic wants to play more than 72-73 games a season. Or even less.

KD is always injured. I don’t see Giannis playing more than 70 games ever. Embiid. You are lucky to get 66 games out of him.

So if Jokic plays 68 games next season. And a young guy like tatums plays 76 games. Assuming similar seasons like this season and team records

Does Jokic get dinged on games played?

3-4 of those 8 are Covid protocols earlier in the season

Jokic would like to coast more and more as he ages (and the team around him gets better, hopefully, which means less need for him to play close to maximum level) but imo he doesn't like to sit out, I doubt he'll want to play as little as 68 games but who know

and yeah, ofc he'll get "dinged" by it if he does miss considerable time
it's not his fault these past couple of years all his direct competitors missed alot more games (in every season)
if that changed, that's a major factor for sure

u can't be MVP in street clothes from the bench

Well embiid missed 9 straight games last season directly due to Covid. That significantly impacted his 68 games played. Or else he was looking at 74-75 games played even with load management.

I do think like mlb pitchers not pitching more than 6 innings. The era of load management you will see nba mvp with as little as 64/65 games played (20% missed)

[Chessboxer]

Nick Wright and Chris Mannix (NBA MVP Voter) go head to head on the MVP debate. Mannix had some issues with Wrights' takes and they talk about:
Kendrick Perkins
MVP History
Analytics
MVP Voting Criteria
Double Standards

Watch on YouTube

[Wolfgang630]

Before the season began I recall reading/hearing people say they wouldn’t give Jokic mvp unless he did something great and Denver had to be 1/2 seed.

It’s not like they came into this season ready to give him a 3rd mvp. The expectations for him winning a 3rd went up. I don’t remember what his odds were to win mvp prior to the season.

[The Rebel]

I’m surprised Jokic has missed 8 games already.

With Denver up by 6 games in the standings in the depleted western conference. I could see Jokic resting 3 or more games. Meaning he will play 71 games. Around tied for least games played by nba mvp.

Moving forward. I doubt Jokic wants to play more than 72-73 games a season. Or even less.

KD is always injured. I don’t see Giannis playing more than 70 games ever. Embiid. You are lucky to get 66 games out of him.

So if Jokic plays 68 games next season. And a young guy like tatums plays 76 games. Assuming similar seasons like this season and team records

Does Jokic get dinged on games played?

If I remember right Jokic went from the Nuggets to playing for the Serbian national team in June/July without any time off, then had 2 weeks off and played August and September for the national team, had a week off and reported to Nuggets training camp. The plan at one time was to give him some games off but he refuses to sit most of the time when they try.

[Sgt Major]

Read on Twitter

[Exp0sed]

I’m surprised Jokic has missed 8 games already.

With Denver up by 6 games in the standings in the depleted western conference. I could see Jokic resting 3 or more games. Meaning he will play 71 games. Around tied for least games played by nba mvp.

Moving forward. I doubt Jokic wants to play more than 72-73 games a season. Or even less.

KD is always injured. I don’t see Giannis playing more than 70 games ever. Embiid. You are lucky to get 66 games out of him.

So if Jokic plays 68 games next season. And a young guy like tatums plays 76 games. Assuming similar seasons like this season and team records

Does Jokic get dinged on games played?

3-4 of those 8 are Covid protocols earlier in the season

Jokic would like to coast more and more as he ages (and the team around him gets better, hopefully, which means less need for him to play close to maximum level) but imo he doesn't like to sit out, I doubt he'll want to play as little as 68 games but who know

and yeah, ofc he'll get "dinged" by it if he does miss considerable time
it's not his fault these past couple of years all his direct competitors missed alot more games (in every season)
if that changed, that's a major factor for sure

u can't be MVP in street clothes from the bench

Well embiid missed 9 straight games last season directly due to Covid. That significantly impacted his 68 games played. Or else he was looking at 74-75 games played even with load management.

I do think like mlb pitchers not pitching more than 6 innings. The era of load management you will see nba mvp with as little as 64/65 games played (20% missed)

I remember Embiid's covid
I wasn't trying to imply that they don't count as missed because its covid, only to point out that apart from a couple of games with a wrist and hamstring injury there only about 3 games where Jokic sat with the rest of the starters, which is in line we what he was load-manged in previous years

as for the 20% games missed, i don't think we'll get there
say next season Embiid\Giannis\Jokic will all play 64-65, there will always be somebody (Tatum?) or other up and comers who will play enough and be good enough record wise (aided by playing more games) and individually

sure, that big 3 will be better than that more durable superstar - but he will get the MVP nod (and rightfully so)

as for Denver, losing that stinker to the Bulls and the Bucks beating everyone even without Giannis - I suspect ur right

no1 i the West is catching up with them and they'll slug it out for a bit to stay within reach of the loaded top Eastern teams but eventually they'll be a few games back anyway and will rest starters multiple games

seems unavoidable at this point

[Kurtz]

Nick Wright and Chris Mannix (NBA MVP Voter) go head to head on the MVP debate. Mannix had some issues with Wrights' takes and they talk about:
Kendrick Perkins
MVP History
Analytics
MVP Voting Criteria
Double Standards

Watch on YouTube

A little long but a good listen. Interesting that Chris thinks that if the poll dropped today, Giannis would be tied with Joker.

[Kurtz]

Before the season began I recall reading/hearing people say they wouldn’t give Jokic mvp unless he did something great and Denver had to be 1/2 seed.

It’s not like they came into this season ready to give him a 3rd mvp. The expectations for him winning a 3rd went up. I don’t remember what his odds were to win mvp prior to the season.

He was around 10-1, behind 3 or 4 guys. Luka was the favourite for the 2nd straight year.

But I think that's because a lot of folks didn't think a guy without playoff success could win 3 in a row given that it's never happened before.

[Wolfgang630]

Watch on YouTube

Lol Zack Lowe going off on the conversation around the MVP race. He doesn’t like what it’s turned into. Starts at 16:40

[losmi]

So far, Jokic has 43 wins, Giannis 39, Embiid 34.

It can be argued that Giannis was resting against bad teams, in games where his team didn't need him to win. But, that definitely wasn't the case with Embiid. At this point, Embiid shouldn't be in the conversation.

[eyeatoma]

Watch on YouTube

Lol Zack Lowe going off on the conversation around the MVP race. He doesn’t like what it’s turned into. Starts at 16:40

I love how Lowe mentions defense, and says Jokic is no better than average, but then still doesn't care, even though the other two candidates are defensive stalwarts. Somehow Jokic's offensive stats still trump being amazing on both sides of the court? Just lol...

Can't tell me there's not a media agenda.

In what world at all does this post have to do with MPJ?

Read on Twitter

[Wolfgang630]

Watch on YouTube

Lol Zack Lowe going off on the conversation around the MVP race. He doesn’t like what it’s turned into. Starts at 16:40

I love how Lowe mentions defense, and says Jokic is no better than average, but then still doesn't care even though the other two candidates are defensive stalwarts, somehow Jokic's offensive stats still trump being amazing on both sides of the court.

They already mentioned Steph, Harden, Russ and many other players who won MVP without being above average defenders.

[eyeatoma]

So far, Jokic has 43 wins, Giannis 39, Embiid 34.

It can be argued that Giannis was resting against bad teams, in games where his team didn't need him to win. But, that definitely wasn't the case with Embiid. At this point, Embiid shouldn't be in the conversation.

And yet he is, and has better odds than Giannis at this point, sorry. Most likely though this is Jokic's award until he retires.

[eyeatoma]

Watch on YouTube

Lol Zack Lowe going off on the conversation around the MVP race. He doesn’t like what it’s turned into. Starts at 16:40

I love how Lowe mentions defense, and says Jokic is no better than average, but then still doesn't care even though the other two candidates are defensive stalwarts, somehow Jokic's offensive stats still trump being amazing on both sides of the court.

They already mentioned Steph, Harden, Russ and many other players who won MVP without being above average defenders.

That's the whole point. I hate that MVP doesn't include defense. And those aren't the same, because they were not going up against insane defenders, except for Kawhi in one of those years. In the last 3 years, Jokic has gone up against top 5 defenders, who are also incredible offensive players, yet somehow Joker gets a pass.

[eyeatoma]

Read on Twitter

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[AleksandarN]

So far, Jokic has 43 wins, Giannis 39, Embiid 34.

It can be argued that Giannis was resting against bad teams, in games where his team didn't need him to win. But, that definitely wasn't the case with Embiid. At this point, Embiid shouldn't be in the conversation.

And yet he is, and has better odds than Giannis at this point, sorry. Most likely though this is Jokic's award until he retires.

Maybe they do but they also include games played and how that effects team records. There are many factors in MVP just some voters weigh them different.