NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2022-23 (pt 3)

[eyeatoma]

Yeah screw it. Embiid doesn’t deserve it but let’s give racism a chance. Team Perkins!

Huh?

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You didn't see Kendrick Perkins' rant that all white MVP winners only got the award because of their skin color? One of the most blatantly racist things said on tv in recent memory.

I doubt this guy's comment was directed at you because as far as I know you just think Embiid is the best player in the league and aren't racially motivated in your choices.

Oh I do think there is some racial bias. Not like perk said but it exists. Jokic definitely deserved one of his MVPs. But I do feel that at times black athletes get a lot of criticism that isn't mirrored for white stars. Anyways I get what he meant right now.

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[eyeatoma]

Read on Twitter

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[Dutchball97]

Huh?

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You didn't see Kendrick Perkins' rant that all white MVP winners only got the award because of their skin color? One of the most blatantly racist things said on tv in recent memory.

I doubt this guy's comment was directed at you because as far as I know you just think Embiid is the best player in the league and aren't racially motivated in your choices.

Oh I do think there is some racial bias. Not like perk said but it exists. Jokic definitely deserved one of his MVPs. But I do feel that at times black athletes get a lot of criticism that isn't mirrored for white stars. Anyways I get what he meant right now.

Sent from my SM-S918B using Tapatalk

That's already getting to dangerous territory imo. What criticism does Embiid get that Jokic does not for example? Embiid gets criticized for missing games and Jokic doesn't because Embiid missed a lot of games and Jokic doesn't. Embiid gets criticized for foul baiting and Jokic doesn't because of one of them trying to get a lot of foul calls and the other doesn't. On the other hand Jokic gets criticized for his defense and Embiid doesn't because Embiid is a good defender and Jokic isn't. Both of them get criticized for not achieving a lot in the post-season because both of them haven't achieved a lot in the post-season but we're supposed to hold Jokic to a higher standard because he won MVP despite you on multiple occassions stating that you believe Embiid should've won at least one of those awards? Like I literally cannot think of one single area where both Jokic and Embiid are lacking and only Embiid gets criticized. Claims of racism should really be accompanied by some sort of proof because otherwise such a statement is racist in itself.

Looking at MVP awards historically and then making the claim there is somehow a bias against black players is almost insane to me. Cousy and Pettit won a couple in the 50s when Russell was just getting started and the likes of Wilt and Oscar weren't in the league yet. No white player won in it in the 60s and the next was Cowens in 72/73 where he led the Celtics to by far the best record in the league. Walton won it in 77/78 in a weird race but his team swept Kareem's Lakers the year before and the Blazers had the best record this season even with Walton missing quite a few games. Bird threepeated from 84-86 and I hope I don't have to explain why that's based on skill and not his skin. Then we didn't see another white MVP for nearly 2 decades untill Nash (2x) and Dirk won it from 2005-2007. After them there was another decade+ without a white MVP before Jokic got his.

[eyeatoma]

You didn't see Kendrick Perkins' rant that all white MVP winners only got the award because of their skin color? One of the most blatantly racist things said on tv in recent memory.

I doubt this guy's comment was directed at you because as far as I know you just think Embiid is the best player in the league and aren't racially motivated in your choices.

Oh I do think there is some racial bias. Not like perk said but it exists. Jokic definitely deserved one of his MVPs. But I do feel that at times black athletes get a lot of criticism that isn't mirrored for white stars. Anyways I get what he meant right now.

Sent from my SM-S918B using Tapatalk

That's already getting to dangerous territory imo. What criticism does Embiid get that Jokic does not for example? Embiid gets criticized for missing games and Jokic doesn't because Embiid missed a lot of games and Jokic doesn't. Embiid gets criticized for foul baiting and Jokic doesn't because of one of them trying to get a lot of foul calls and the other doesn't. On the other hand Jokic gets criticized for his defense and Embiid doesn't because Embiid is a good defender and Jokic isn't. Both of them get criticized for not achieving a lot in the post-season because both of them haven't achieved a lot in the post-season but we're supposed to hold Jokic to a higher standard because he won MVP despite you on multiple occassions stating that you believe Embiid should've won at least one of those awards? Like I literally cannot think of one single area where both Jokic and Embiid are lacking and only Embiid gets criticized. Claims of racism should really be accompanied by some sort of proof because otherwise such a statement is racist in itself.

Looking at MVP awards historically and then making the claim there is somehow a bias against black players is almost insane to me. Cousy and Pettit won a couple in the 50s when Russell was just getting started and the likes of Wilt and Oscar weren't in the league yet. No white player won in it in the 60s and the next was Cowens in 72/73 where he led the Celtics to by far the best record in the league. Walton won it in 77/78 in a weird race but his team swept Kareem's Lakers the year before and the Blazers had the best record this season even with Walton missing quite a few games. Bird threepeated from 84-86 and I hope I don't have to explain why that's based on skill and not his skin. Then we didn't see another white MVP for nearly 2 decades untill Nash (2x) and Dirk won it from 2005-2007. After them there was another decade+ without a white MVP before Jokic got his.

It's cultural man. The way they criticized Allen Iverson reaked of racism. The dress code ****, was basically silencing the way many African americans liked to dress. Right now with the Embiid vs Jokic stuff?

The fact that Jokic is fat was considered endearing, while Embiid being criticized for his weight was a big problem. They even questioned his work ethic at one point. I think Dirk deserved the MVP, and Nash definitely deserved the 1 of them. I don't think he needed a second but also don't think it's racially motivated. I just don't think a black player putting up insane advanced stats would be excused for their somewhat average playoff success but then be on the verge of 3 peating. Jokic and his advanced stats seem to be immune to any sort of criticism. They even ignore defense even though it's clear as day that he doesn't hold a candle to Embiid or Giannis.

Media members mention that they have issues with voting for Giannis getting a 3 peat, but don't seem to have an issue with Jokic.

Read on Twitter

Then we can also consider how no one had much issue with Jokic losing his cool in the playoffs and being ejected, and injuring a Morris Twin (albeit retaliation, but you never hit someone in the back). Seems like if it was not Jokic, there would have been far more criticsm.

Read on Twitter

When you count the number of white voters to black voters for the MVP it's highly skewed towards white voters, something between 75/25 and 90/10. Im trying to find the link but it's quite lopsided. When you have that much of a skew, it's almost impossible to not get SOME racial bias.

[HMFFL]

Huh?

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You didn't see Kendrick Perkins' rant that all white MVP winners only got the award because of their skin color? One of the most blatantly racist things said on tv in recent memory.

I doubt this guy's comment was directed at you because as far as I know you just think Embiid is the best player in the league and aren't racially motivated in your choices.

Oh I do think there is some racial bias. Not like perk said but it exists. Jokic definitely deserved one of his MVPs. But I do feel that at times black athletes get a lot of criticism that isn't mirrored for white stars. Anyways I get what he meant right now.

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Thank you for the laugh first thing in the morning. Everything regarding Jokic has been deserving.

Jokic is currently a large favorite to win and has been. Joel Embiid is currently second in odds but as a decent underdog.

Enjoy the greatness that's happens. The Americans should step their game up if they want to beat the likes of Jokic Embiid, and Giannis. Info hope Joel Embiid wins an MVP eventually but he's just not comparable to the season Jokic is having.

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[eyeatoma]

You didn't see Kendrick Perkins' rant that all white MVP winners only got the award because of their skin color? One of the most blatantly racist things said on tv in recent memory.

I doubt this guy's comment was directed at you because as far as I know you just think Embiid is the best player in the league and aren't racially motivated in your choices.

Oh I do think there is some racial bias. Not like perk said but it exists. Jokic definitely deserved one of his MVPs. But I do feel that at times black athletes get a lot of criticism that isn't mirrored for white stars. Anyways I get what he meant right now.

Sent from my SM-S918B using Tapatalk

Thank you for the laugh first thing in the morning. Everything regarding Jokic has been deserving.

Jokic is currently a large favorite to win and has been. Joel Embiid is currently second in odds but as a decent underdog.

Enjoy the greatness that's happens. The Americans should step their game up if they want to beat the likes of Jokic Embiid, and Giannis. Info hope Joel Embiid wins an MVP eventually but he's just not comparable to the season Jokic is having.

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I'd say Embiid has made up a lot of ground the last 10 games or so. It's the same thing that happened with Jokic last season where Embiid was leading the second straw poll, and then he had a few sub par games, and Jokic was insane.

[Bum Adebayo]

Embiid has finally surpassed the 9 RPM mark, he is very close to Tatum now.

[Dutchball97]

Oh I do think there is some racial bias. Not like perk said but it exists. Jokic definitely deserved one of his MVPs. But I do feel that at times black athletes get a lot of criticism that isn't mirrored for white stars. Anyways I get what he meant right now.

Sent from my SM-S918B using Tapatalk

That's already getting to dangerous territory imo. What criticism does Embiid get that Jokic does not for example? Embiid gets criticized for missing games and Jokic doesn't because Embiid missed a lot of games and Jokic doesn't. Embiid gets criticized for foul baiting and Jokic doesn't because of one of them trying to get a lot of foul calls and the other doesn't. On the other hand Jokic gets criticized for his defense and Embiid doesn't because Embiid is a good defender and Jokic isn't. Both of them get criticized for not achieving a lot in the post-season because both of them haven't achieved a lot in the post-season but we're supposed to hold Jokic to a higher standard because he won MVP despite you on multiple occassions stating that you believe Embiid should've won at least one of those awards? Like I literally cannot think of one single area where both Jokic and Embiid are lacking and only Embiid gets criticized. Claims of racism should really be accompanied by some sort of proof because otherwise such a statement is racist in itself.

Looking at MVP awards historically and then making the claim there is somehow a bias against black players is almost insane to me. Cousy and Pettit won a couple in the 50s when Russell was just getting started and the likes of Wilt and Oscar weren't in the league yet. No white player won in it in the 60s and the next was Cowens in 72/73 where he led the Celtics to by far the best record in the league. Walton won it in 77/78 in a weird race but his team swept Kareem's Lakers the year before and the Blazers had the best record this season even with Walton missing quite a few games. Bird threepeated from 84-86 and I hope I don't have to explain why that's based on skill and not his skin. Then we didn't see another white MVP for nearly 2 decades untill Nash (2x) and Dirk won it from 2005-2007. After them there was another decade+ without a white MVP before Jokic got his.

It's cultural man. The way they criticized Allen Iverson reaked of racism. The dress code ****, was basically silencing the way many African americans liked to dress. Right now with the Embiid vs Jokic stuff?

The fact that Jokic is fat was considered endearing, while Embiid being criticized for his weight was a big problem. They even questioned his work ethic at one point. I think Dirk deserved the MVP, and Nash definitely deserved the 1 of them. I don't think he needed a second but also don't think it's racially motivated. I just don't think a black player putting up insane advanced stats would be excused for their somewhat average playoff success but then be on the verge of 3 peating. Jokic and his advanced stats seem to be immune to any sort of criticism. They even ignore defense even though it's clear as day that he doesn't hold a candle to Embiid or Giannis. When you look at the number of people voting, only 10% of the voters were African Americans.

Media members mention that they have issues with voting for Giannis getting a 3 peat, but don't seem to have an issue with Jokic.

Read on Twitter

Then we can also consider how no one had much issue with Jokic losing his cool in the playoffs and being ejected, and injuring a Morris Twin (albeit retaliation, but you never hit someone in the back). Seems like if it was not Jokic, there would have been far more criticsm.

Read on Twitter

When you count the number of white voters to black voters for the MVP it's highly skewed towards white voters, something between 75/25 and 90/10. Im trying to find the link but it's quite lopsided. When you have that much of a skew, it's almost impossible to not get SOME racial bias.

But that "SOME racial bias" could be absolutely marginal and as is often the case in American sports it can even work the other way around. To just look at the skin color of media members and then conclude that of course they're going to have a preference for people with the same skin color seems like projection to me. Any media member worth his salt, whether they're white, black or anything else, should be as impartial as possible.

"I just don't think a black player putting up insane advanced stats be excused for their somewhat average play-off success but then be on the verge of 3 peating". Although that's literally what would've happened if LeBron decided to stay in Cleveland instead of going to the Heat. Kobe fans were using the same tired and ridiculous arguments as Embiid/Giannis fans are now making against Jokic. Because LeBron/Jokic didn't win a title in previous seasons they now should not win a regular season MVP award, makes no sense, 0 sense at all.

You're also still talking like 2021 Giannis and 2023 Jokic are remotely in the same boat. Giannis ended 4th in MVP voting in 2021, even without any form of voter fatigue he wouldn't have won it.

"Jokic and his advanced stats"? I think you're intelligent enough to know all of the major advanced stats that are mentioned here existed in some form before anyone even knew Jokic existed. Advanced stats get criticized all the time and rightfully so. Identifying the weakness in these stats is what made it possible for better stats to be made. The main problem is that most people who criticize all advanced stats under the same umbrella always have a very limitted understanding of these advanced stats, if only for the fact that advanced stats aren't a monolith that give you the same results on every formula. THAT'S why Jokic is getting praised so much by people who do know what they're talking about. Sure Jokic' defense gets overrated by BPM and RAPTOR but nobody in their right mind is actually saying that's the reason why Jokic is the best player this season. He's not only topping the boxscore metrics, but also leads the league in +-, looks amazing in other +- based stats and leads every single composite metric that uses more advanced techniques like player tracking. Advanced stats measure wildly different things and the moment someone tops them all there is really no denying that this individual is the best player in that certain regular season, whether this individual COULD possibly be less valuable in the play-offs due to his defensive limitations isn't relevant at all. Yet you just posted another string of tweets by some random guy trying to argue that we should only look at the MVP race in a very specific lens (clutch shooting) and ignore the rest because that's literally the only way Embiid is having a better regular season than Jokic right now.

AI is also just a bad example. Yeah Stern was clearly racist against him but he's a HoFer, 11x All-Star, 7x All-NBA and even won a MVP in what most people consider to be one of the worst MVP choices ever so that racism didn't translate to award voting at all.

[eyeatoma]

That's already getting to dangerous territory imo. What criticism does Embiid get that Jokic does not for example? Embiid gets criticized for missing games and Jokic doesn't because Embiid missed a lot of games and Jokic doesn't. Embiid gets criticized for foul baiting and Jokic doesn't because of one of them trying to get a lot of foul calls and the other doesn't. On the other hand Jokic gets criticized for his defense and Embiid doesn't because Embiid is a good defender and Jokic isn't. Both of them get criticized for not achieving a lot in the post-season because both of them haven't achieved a lot in the post-season but we're supposed to hold Jokic to a higher standard because he won MVP despite you on multiple occassions stating that you believe Embiid should've won at least one of those awards? Like I literally cannot think of one single area where both Jokic and Embiid are lacking and only Embiid gets criticized. Claims of racism should really be accompanied by some sort of proof because otherwise such a statement is racist in itself.

Looking at MVP awards historically and then making the claim there is somehow a bias against black players is almost insane to me. Cousy and Pettit won a couple in the 50s when Russell was just getting started and the likes of Wilt and Oscar weren't in the league yet. No white player won in it in the 60s and the next was Cowens in 72/73 where he led the Celtics to by far the best record in the league. Walton won it in 77/78 in a weird race but his team swept Kareem's Lakers the year before and the Blazers had the best record this season even with Walton missing quite a few games. Bird threepeated from 84-86 and I hope I don't have to explain why that's based on skill and not his skin. Then we didn't see another white MVP for nearly 2 decades untill Nash (2x) and Dirk won it from 2005-2007. After them there was another decade+ without a white MVP before Jokic got his.

It's cultural man. The way they criticized Allen Iverson reaked of racism. The dress code ****, was basically silencing the way many African americans liked to dress. Right now with the Embiid vs Jokic stuff?

The fact that Jokic is fat was considered endearing, while Embiid being criticized for his weight was a big problem. They even questioned his work ethic at one point. I think Dirk deserved the MVP, and Nash definitely deserved the 1 of them. I don't think he needed a second but also don't think it's racially motivated. I just don't think a black player putting up insane advanced stats would be excused for their somewhat average playoff success but then be on the verge of 3 peating. Jokic and his advanced stats seem to be immune to any sort of criticism. They even ignore defense even though it's clear as day that he doesn't hold a candle to Embiid or Giannis. When you look at the number of people voting, only 10% of the voters were African Americans.

Media members mention that they have issues with voting for Giannis getting a 3 peat, but don't seem to have an issue with Jokic.

Read on Twitter

Then we can also consider how no one had much issue with Jokic losing his cool in the playoffs and being ejected, and injuring a Morris Twin (albeit retaliation, but you never hit someone in the back). Seems like if it was not Jokic, there would have been far more criticsm.

Read on Twitter

When you count the number of white voters to black voters for the MVP it's highly skewed towards white voters, something between 75/25 and 90/10. Im trying to find the link but it's quite lopsided. When you have that much of a skew, it's almost impossible to not get SOME racial bias.

But that "SOME racial bias" could be absolutely marginal and as is often the case in American sports it can even work the other way around. To just look at the skin color of media members and then conclude that of course they're going to have a preference for people with the same skin color seems like projection to me. Any media member worth his salt, whether they're white, black or anything else, should be as impartial as possible.

"I just don't think a black player putting up insane advanced stats be excused for their somewhat average play-off success but then be on the verge of 3 peating". Although that's literally what would've happened if LeBron decided to stay in Cleveland instead of going to the Heat. Kobe fans were using the same tired and ridiculous arguments as Embiid/Giannis fans are now making against Jokic. Because LeBron/Jokic didn't win a title in previous seasons they now should not win a regular season MVP award, makes no sense, 0 sense at all.

You're also still talking like 2021 Giannis and 2023 Jokic are remotely in the same boat. Giannis ended 4th in MVP voting in 2021, even without any form of voter fatigue he wouldn't have won it.

"Jokic and his advanced stats"? I think you're intelligent enough to know all of the major advanced stats that are mentioned here existed in some form before anyone even knew Jokic existed. Advanced stats get criticized all the time and rightfully so. Identifying the weakness in these stats is what made it possible for better stats to be made. The main problem is that most people who criticize all advanced stats under the same umbrella always have a very limitted understanding of these advanced stats, if only for the fact that advanced stats aren't a monolith that give you the same results on every formula. THAT'S why Jokic is getting praised so much by people who do know what they're talking about. Sure Jokic' defense gets overrated by BPM and RAPTOR but nobody in their right mind is actually saying that's the reason why Jokic is the best player this season. He's not only topping the boxscore metrics, but also leads the league in +-, looks amazing in other +- based stats and leads every single composite metric that uses more advanced techniques like player tracking. Advanced stats measure wildly different things and the moment someone tops them all there is really no denying that this individual is the best player in that certain regular season, whether this individual COULD possibly be less valuable in the play-offs due to his defensive limitations isn't relevant at all. Yet you just posted another string of tweets by some random guy trying to argue that we should only look at the MVP race in a very specific lens (clutch shooting) and ignore the rest because that's literally the only way Embiid is having a better regular season than Jokic right now.

AI is also just a bad example. Yeah Stern was clearly racist against him but he's a HoFer, 11x All-Star, 7x All-NBA and even won a MVP in what most people consider to be one of the worst MVP choices ever so that racism didn't translate to award voting at all.

Eh, I think at some point the advanced stats that make sense need to translate to playoff success. You can have all the high efficiency basketball you want, but if it doesn't win you title how much does it actually prove?

As I mentioned in the other thread I think the racial issues are more subtle. Subconscious racial bias exists in every day interactions, to assume that it doesn't impact sports or voting in the NBA is a little naive. I don't think it's a conaxous thing. I just think there is more leeway offered to Jokic as well as excuses made for him to mask his deficiencies that I don't see for the other candidates.

The premise that racism doesn't exist because we don't have many White MVPs also doesn't acknowledge that there weren't many white players worthy of that title.

You're right AI won the MVP. Stern also didn't like the thug culture that AI propogated.



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[eyeatoma]

Read on Twitter

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[HMFFL]

The odds have proven Embiid have changed due to Embiid's productivity lately.

Jokic is a -250 favorite, -400 at Caesars properties. Caesars is protecting themselves.

Embiid is a +300 dog

Giannis Antetokounmpo +600 to +750

Jayson Tatum +300 to +3600

https://www.vegasinsider.com/nba/odds/mvp/

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[Dutchball97]

It's cultural man. The way they criticized Allen Iverson reaked of racism. The dress code ****, was basically silencing the way many African americans liked to dress. Right now with the Embiid vs Jokic stuff?

The fact that Jokic is fat was considered endearing, while Embiid being criticized for his weight was a big problem. They even questioned his work ethic at one point. I think Dirk deserved the MVP, and Nash definitely deserved the 1 of them. I don't think he needed a second but also don't think it's racially motivated. I just don't think a black player putting up insane advanced stats would be excused for their somewhat average playoff success but then be on the verge of 3 peating. Jokic and his advanced stats seem to be immune to any sort of criticism. They even ignore defense even though it's clear as day that he doesn't hold a candle to Embiid or Giannis. When you look at the number of people voting, only 10% of the voters were African Americans.

Media members mention that they have issues with voting for Giannis getting a 3 peat, but don't seem to have an issue with Jokic.

Read on Twitter

Then we can also consider how no one had much issue with Jokic losing his cool in the playoffs and being ejected, and injuring a Morris Twin (albeit retaliation, but you never hit someone in the back). Seems like if it was not Jokic, there would have been far more criticsm.

Read on Twitter

When you count the number of white voters to black voters for the MVP it's highly skewed towards white voters, something between 75/25 and 90/10. Im trying to find the link but it's quite lopsided. When you have that much of a skew, it's almost impossible to not get SOME racial bias.

But that "SOME racial bias" could be absolutely marginal and as is often the case in American sports it can even work the other way around. To just look at the skin color of media members and then conclude that of course they're going to have a preference for people with the same skin color seems like projection to me. Any media member worth his salt, whether they're white, black or anything else, should be as impartial as possible.

"I just don't think a black player putting up insane advanced stats be excused for their somewhat average play-off success but then be on the verge of 3 peating". Although that's literally what would've happened if LeBron decided to stay in Cleveland instead of going to the Heat. Kobe fans were using the same tired and ridiculous arguments as Embiid/Giannis fans are now making against Jokic. Because LeBron/Jokic didn't win a title in previous seasons they now should not win a regular season MVP award, makes no sense, 0 sense at all.

You're also still talking like 2021 Giannis and 2023 Jokic are remotely in the same boat. Giannis ended 4th in MVP voting in 2021, even without any form of voter fatigue he wouldn't have won it.

"Jokic and his advanced stats"? I think you're intelligent enough to know all of the major advanced stats that are mentioned here existed in some form before anyone even knew Jokic existed. Advanced stats get criticized all the time and rightfully so. Identifying the weakness in these stats is what made it possible for better stats to be made. The main problem is that most people who criticize all advanced stats under the same umbrella always have a very limitted understanding of these advanced stats, if only for the fact that advanced stats aren't a monolith that give you the same results on every formula. THAT'S why Jokic is getting praised so much by people who do know what they're talking about. Sure Jokic' defense gets overrated by BPM and RAPTOR but nobody in their right mind is actually saying that's the reason why Jokic is the best player this season. He's not only topping the boxscore metrics, but also leads the league in +-, looks amazing in other +- based stats and leads every single composite metric that uses more advanced techniques like player tracking. Advanced stats measure wildly different things and the moment someone tops them all there is really no denying that this individual is the best player in that certain regular season, whether this individual COULD possibly be less valuable in the play-offs due to his defensive limitations isn't relevant at all. Yet you just posted another string of tweets by some random guy trying to argue that we should only look at the MVP race in a very specific lens (clutch shooting) and ignore the rest because that's literally the only way Embiid is having a better regular season than Jokic right now.

AI is also just a bad example. Yeah Stern was clearly racist against him but he's a HoFer, 11x All-Star, 7x All-NBA and even won a MVP in what most people consider to be one of the worst MVP choices ever so that racism didn't translate to award voting at all.

Eh, I think at some point the advanced stats that make sense need to translate to playoff success. You can have all the high efficiency basketball you want, but if it doesn't win you title how much does it actually prove?

As I mentioned in the other thread I think the racial issues are more subtle. Subconscious racial bias exists in every day interactions, to assume that it doesn't impact sports or voting in the NBA is a little naive. I don't think it's a conaxous thing. I just think there is more leeway offered to Jokic as well as excuses made for him to mask his deficiencies that I don't see for the other candidates.

The premise that racism doesn't exist because we don't have many White MVPs also doesn't acknowledge that there weren't many white players worthy of that title.

You're right AI won the MVP. Stern also didn't like the thug culture that AI propogated.



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The thing is a title doesn't just fall from the sky. You need good teammates to be able to win a title, that even goes for the greatest players of all-time. Sure Jokic hasn't won a title yet but when were the Nuggets ever considered a serious contender? This year is the first time where they actually have a full healthy team and they're still not nearly the favorite for the title. Celtics and Bucks are the main contenders, Suns with KD also look scary. Then you get 76ers and Nuggets at 4 and 5 and that's without taking into account a lot of people with PTSD that think the Warriors or Lakers are going to come out of nowhere and get to the finals.

Jokic gets called an underachiever by his haters but he has done what was expected or more every year. Once he has a year like 2011 LeBron or 2016 Curry where they really should've won a ring but came short then it's fair to criticize but as it stands the Nuggets have never been expected to make the finals so why blame Jokic for not performing miracles. Meanwhile the 76ers have been favored to get to the finals or at least the WCF on multiple occasions and kept falling short.

I really hope both Jokic and Embiid get a title at some point but mainly so people stop hating on them for something that doesn't make them better or worse players.

[HMFFL]

Embiid has finally surpassed the 9 RPM mark, he is very close to Tatum now.

And a career low in offensive rebs and total rebounds per game since his rookie season. The 1.8 offensive boards a game is the first time he's averaged under 2.1 in his career. He's averaging a career high in minutes per game.

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[losmi]

Oh I do think there is some racial bias. Not like perk said but it exists. Jokic definitely deserved one of his MVPs. But I do feel that at times black athletes get a lot of criticism that isn't mirrored for white stars. Anyways I get what he meant right now.

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Thank you for the laugh first thing in the morning. Everything regarding Jokic has been deserving.

Jokic is currently a large favorite to win and has been. Joel Embiid is currently second in odds but as a decent underdog.

Enjoy the greatness that's happens. The Americans should step their game up if they want to beat the likes of Jokic Embiid, and Giannis. Info hope Joel Embiid wins an MVP eventually but he's just not comparable to the season Jokic is having.

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I'd say Embiid has made up a lot of ground the last 10 games or so. It's the same thing that happened with Jokic last season where Embiid was leading the second straw poll, and then he had a few sub par games, and Jokic was insane.

Last 10 games, w-l-missed

Embiid 6-3-1
Jokic 7-3-0

Embiid had a nice week, 4 wins in a row, but right before that he was winless for 4 games.

[Bum Adebayo]

Embiid has finally surpassed the 9 RPM mark, he is very close to Tatum now.

And a career low in offensive rebs and total rebounds per game since his rookie season. The 1.8 offensive boards a game is the first time he's averaged under 2.1 in his career. He's averaging a career high in minutes per game.

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Yeah that has been the only weakness so far this season, for some reason he has become too lazy at the boards.
Wait, I just realized you may be thinking that I was talking about rebounds with RPM lol

[bebopdeluxe]

Oh I do think there is some racial bias. Not like perk said but it exists. Jokic definitely deserved one of his MVPs. But I do feel that at times black athletes get a lot of criticism that isn't mirrored for white stars. Anyways I get what he meant right now.

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Thank you for the laugh first thing in the morning. Everything regarding Jokic has been deserving.

Jokic is currently a large favorite to win and has been. Joel Embiid is currently second in odds but as a decent underdog.

Enjoy the greatness that's happens. The Americans should step their game up if they want to beat the likes of Jokic Embiid, and Giannis. Info hope Joel Embiid wins an MVP eventually but he's just not comparable to the season Jokic is having.

Sent from my SM-N975U using RealGM mobile app

I'd say Embiid has made up a lot of ground the last 10 games or so. It's the same thing that happened with Jokic last season where Embiid was leading the second straw poll, and then he had a few sub par games, and Jokic was insane.

Yup. I clearly remember the second Sixers-Nuggets game last season where Jokic was dominant...that was a major factor in the sea-change in the national narrative from Embiid to Jokic.

Embiid utterly spanked Jokic in their first meeting this season on national TV. If Embiid does that again - IN DENVER - on March 27th, he definitely has a shot to win MVP, advanced analytics be damned.

[CharityStripe34]

I could potentially see either Gianni or Embiid gaining some steam for MVP in this final stretch if both go on a hot-streak along with their respective clubs. How much is unknown, but I have seen that big-time National TV matchups (like Philly/Milwaukee last week) do play a decent factor in swaying some voters. Should be interesting to see.

[Chessboxer]

I could potentially see either Gianni or Embiid gaining some steam for MVP in this final stretch if both go on a hot-streak along with their respective clubs. How much is unknown, but I have seen that big-time National TV matchups (like Philly/Milwaukee last week) do play a decent factor in swaying some voters. Should be interesting to see.

I doubt it though. Your'e right, in theory it should, but this is Jokic wer'e talking about. Jokic can get humilated by Giannis/Embiid over the next 2 weeks and I don't think it will really change anything in the MVP voters minds.

[HotRocks34]

Embiid utterly spanked Jokic in their first meeting this season on national TV.

He didn't. PJ Tucker did.

After Philly did this (guard Jokic with a smaller player), the Clippers tried it with Kawhi, etc and Jokic ate big.

Sixers moved Tucker onto Jokic (guarding Jokic) in the second half. Philly was down 15 at the half. Stats for first half:

Jokic ----------> 16 points on 6/07 with 1 TO in first half (08 points in second half on 2/05 with 6 TO)
Embiid --------> 19 points on 8/16 with 3 TO in first half (28 points in second half on 8/15 with 3 TO)

Jokic blocked Embiid twice in the first half, and forced Embiid into a charge.

Tucker being put on Jokic changed the entire game flow.

Embiid said this himself following the game:

https://clutchpoints.com/sixers-news-joel-embiid-doc-rivers-reveal-true-x-factor-in-stopping-nikola-jokic-nuggets

“I thought in the second half, making that switch won us the game,” Embiid said of the move to have Tucker guard Jokic. He took Aaron Gordon after guarding Jokic in the first half. It was a move that was surprising given Jokic’s success against shorter defenders and Tucker’s defensive struggles. But it worked.

Jokic and the Nuggets were getting whatever they wanted with Embiid guarding Jokic in the first half. Denver scored 73 points in the first half.

Without Tucker guarding Jokic -- rather than having Embiid try to guard Jokic -- Denver likely wins the game.

Embiid's stats looked good in the game, but Tucker was the star of the show. If anyone spanked Jokic there, it was Tucker.

[Freighttrain]

We know Jokic isn't some kind of defensive stopper, nor does he claim to be one, but this is looking like some ole defence for the potential 3 time consecutive MVP. Too bad it's not valued the same way as offense, otherwise, Giannis/Embiid would probably be leading.

edit: the ending of the video is kinda cringe, but okay the point remains

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