Clips 12-10 in the Russ Era

HotRocks34 · Post #361 » by **HotRocks34** » Sat Mar 11, 2023 2:26 pm

Based on what Lue is saying it appears that the team is going to go with Mann and a big down the stretch of games for now (rather than Russ and a Fake Big playing Small Ball).

So, for example, closing a game with Mann and Zubac on the floor rather than Russ and Batum.

This is what was done against the Raptors. The closing lineup was, I think...........Mann, Gordon, George, Leonard, Zubac.

Now that comes at a cost. You''re basically trading Russ' offense for Mann's/big's defense. Lue talked about this after the win. But the plan worked, and the Clippers finished with a 107 DRTG for the game. A very good number. Their DRTG for the season is 114.

Lue said postgame that Mann and Gordon (finished the game) had trouble dealing with Toronto's on-ball pressure later in the contest (and implied Russ would not have had that trouble). But the gameplan worked and Russ was totally cool with the situation. LA won.

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Getting a former MVP and future Hall of Famer who is playing for $700,000 and knows his role, and is all-in for the team? A guy who starts for you but is ok with not playing down the stretch of games but will cheer on the team in those situations and not sulk?

Great job by the Clippers to pick up Russ.

Post #362 » by **og15** » Sat Mar 11, 2023 2:56 pm

HotRocks34 wrote:
og15 wrote:
NCHeels2008 wrote:RW is balling, great pickup. Such a steal getting him to get bought out, can only imagine how good the Lakers would be with a PG like him

This is a post that could maybe be made if the last two years just didn't happen

..but even if they didn't happen it would still be questionable to make this post haha.

Haha. Yeah, it's for sure not a steal to get a starter for $700,000 to fill a need (ballhandler and play maker) that the team couldn't fill before.

NCHeels definitely got me there!

Now, if the Clippers had to trade the equivalent of KCP, Harrell and Kuzma, as well as three second-round picks, to pickup Westbrook for $40+ million a year, then I'd feel like it was questionable to assert that the Clips got Russ as a steal.

Fortunately, that's not the case. That was the mistake the Lakers made, not the Clippers.

Getting a starter who is averaging 14/3/8 for $700,000 (vet minimum) while giving up nothing to get him?

Yep, that's a steal. Exactly as the post said.

Read the bolded, that's what I'm responding to, hence the "if the last two years didn't happen". Westbrook fit on the Lakers doesn't become better even if he was making less money, it was just a bad fit.

HotRocks34 · Post #363 » by **HotRocks34** » Sat Mar 11, 2023 3:02 pm

Ok. So let's take a look at salaries for players in 2022-2023. Here's the list from BBREF. This won't include everyone (or everyone at their current number) because it doesn't include, say, Russ at his Clippers figure. To get the highest to lowest salaries, click on the 2022-23 tab:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/players.html

The third-highest figure is Russ at 47 million. Of course, the Clippers didn't sign him for that. They got him for the vet minimum (I think pro-rated for how much of the season was left) of like $700,000.

If you go to the bottom of the list, there are 12 players (entries) listed making less than $700,000 this year. Basically a bunch of nobodies, as far as I can tell.

I'd have to look at a list of buyouts to see how much each person is contributing to their team. Off the top of my head, Love is one of the only guys I can think of who is starting. And he's averaging 7/7/1. Love is 34, same age as Russ. Nice pickup for the Heat, definitely a big bargain. Beverley is starting and averaging 4/5/4 for the Bulls. Russ is starting for the Clippers and averaging 14/3/8.

I don't think there are any other buyout guys starting for their teams. Justin Holiday has started a few games for Dallas.

None of the other buyout guys is a former MVP. Kevin Love could well get in the Hall of Fame, I guess.

Beverley is signed for about $800,000 with the Bulls. Love signed for $3.1 million for the rest of the year with Miami.

So, Beverley comes closest to Russ' situation. He's 34 years old, just as Russ and Love are. Given all the variables involved, Beverley is a heck of a pickup for the Bulls.

Russ is the true anomaly though, the clear "steal" (at least so far) of all the buyout guys and low-contract guys.

If you look at the BBREF contract list, and go upwards from the bottom of the cheapest guys, the first guy who is any kind of real factor on his team is Jock Landale, making $1.5 million this year. Landale is the backup center for Phoenix and is a solid contributor.

So this is the overall landscape we're looking at when assessing Westbrook's relative value and cost. The only comparable figure at the moment is Beverley. Now, some other low-contract buyout guy could break out in the playoffs (someone like Terrance Ross) and prove themselves to be a great bargain pickup.

Whatever the case, both objectively speaking on his own merits and relatively speaking compared to other low-salary guys, Westbrook has been a steal pickup for the Clippers. Simply put, no other player of his caliber is playing for such a small salary. And he's still productive. And he's apparently a great locker room leader, etc.

This is what this thread is about. It's not about whatever mistakes the Lakers made in what they gave up to get Russ, or in what they chose to pay Russ. It's not about how the Lakers are playing without Russ. It's about what Russ is doing for the Clippers in light of how little they are paying him and because of the fact that they gave nothing up to get him.

HotRocks34 · Post #364 » by **HotRocks34** » Sat Mar 11, 2023 11:27 pm

Clippers (36-33) defeat Knicks in LA. Clippers have now won 3 in a row after starting the Russ Era 0-5.

Not a great game for Russ or his backup Mann, but Kawhi and George stepped up big.

Closing lineup..................Gordon, George, Kawhi, Morris, Zubac

Lue continues to experiment with lineups, including closing lineups. He may just ride the hot hand game by game.

xb3at band1tx · Post #365 » by **xb3at band1tx** » Sat Mar 11, 2023 11:27 pm

Lue finding out you shouldn't close with Russ

HotRocks34 · Post #366 » by **HotRocks34** » Sat Mar 11, 2023 11:30 pm

xb3at band1tx wrote:Lue finding out you shouldn't close with Russ

Lue is favoring defense right now (so no Russ).

Last 2 games, they've had a really good DRTG.

If it works, use it.

xinxin · Post #367 » by **xinxin** » Sat Mar 11, 2023 11:39 pm

they've been winning since they've been benching Russ from 3rd to 4th quarter..

I could see Russ pouting in the bench though.. ha ha

C3H6N6O6 · Post #368 » by **C3H6N6O6** » Sat Mar 11, 2023 11:40 pm

Why not just bring Russ off the bench if you are not going to give him starter minutes? It is to keep Paul George happy?
He didn't play in the 4th quarter today.

Homer38 · Post #369 » by **Homer38** » Sat Mar 11, 2023 11:54 pm

The clippers will be fine if Lue is not forced to play Westbrook in the fourth quarter...This is the key and it was a major problem for Ham and Vogel with the lakers.They were forced to play him many minutes no matter what.It help the clippers that Westbrook don't make like 47 millions for them....

HotRocks34 · Post #370 » by **HotRocks34** » Sat Mar 11, 2023 11:56 pm

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HotRocks34 · Post #371 » by **HotRocks34** » Sun Mar 12, 2023 12:01 am

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MoneyMo · Post #372 » by **MoneyMo** » Sun Mar 12, 2023 12:03 am

Russ looked cooked today

HotRocks34 · Post #373 » by **HotRocks34** » Sun Mar 12, 2023 12:22 am

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Pharmcat · Post #374 » by **Pharmcat** » Sun Mar 12, 2023 12:22 am

This team is STACKED

Pointgod · Post #375 » by **Pointgod** » Sun Mar 12, 2023 12:24 am

HotRocks34 wrote:Clippers (36-33) defeat Knicks in LA. Clippers have now won 3 in a row after starting the Russ Era 0-5.

Not a great game for Russ or his backup Mann, but Kawhi and George stepped up big.

Closing lineup..................Gordon, George, Kawhi, Morris, Zubac

Lue continues to experiment with lineups, including closing lineups. He may just ride the hot hand game by game.

That’s a solid closing lineup.

Homer38 · Post #376 » by **Homer38** » Sun Mar 12, 2023 12:26 am

No doubt Westbrook is a first ballot HOF and he was great in his prime.But he is not the same player who had too many minutes with the lakers.Both can be true

xb3at band1tx · Post #377 » by **xb3at band1tx** » Sun Mar 12, 2023 12:30 am

C3H6N6O6 wrote:Why not just bring Russ off the bench if you are not going to give him starter minutes? It is to keep Paul George happy?
He didn't play in the 4th quarter today.

Lue is clever, giving Russ the starting spot but managing him with much lower minutes is a good way to assuage egos and make sure WB can't do too much damage.

madmaxmedia · Post #378 » by **madmaxmedia** » Sun Mar 12, 2023 12:31 am

C3H6N6O6 wrote:Why not just bring Russ off the bench if you are not going to give him starter minutes? It is to keep Paul George happy?
He didn't play in the 4th quarter today.

We have multiple guys that could start but not get starter's minutes, or vice versa. Matchups, units, and who's got a hot hand all play a role every night right now. The only 2 steadfasts are Paul George and Kawhi Leonard.

On this team this year, starting or not doesn't really matter or determine whether you'll finish games. I think the team is used to and okay with it. If everyone's got a leash, then the converse is you could go back in anytime and get another chance to help the team win.

madmaxmedia · Post #379 » by **madmaxmedia** » Sun Mar 12, 2023 12:35 am

Homer38 wrote:No doubt Westbrook is a first ballot HOF and he was great in his prime.But he is not the same player who had too many minutes with the lakers.Both can be true

Right now he's actually averaging 2 more MPG than with the Lakers, I think around 20-25 MPG would be ideal. But he is taking 3 less shots per game (and hitting much higher FG%) which is just as or more important.

HotRocks34 · Post #380 » by **HotRocks34** » Sun Mar 12, 2023 1:05 am

Russ postgame after the Knicks win

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