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HEAT vs MAGIC // 3.11.2023 /// 7p

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Re: HEAT vs MAGIC // 3.11.2023 /// 7p 

Post#401 » by 3ammy3uck3ts » Mon Mar 13, 2023 1:12 pm

Pokuokic wrote:If I'm the Denver Nuggets I'm offering Murray/Gordan+ picks for Bam/Herro (Herro does not even need to be part of the deal, would even take Lowry's expiring deal) or filler next season your not getting a better fit next to Jokic and it's a amazing fit for Bam as well if the Heat/Heat fans don't think he's a franchise guy.


As a Heat fan it would suck to see him go but at this point I hope he’s traded just to see the **** storm and many years of mediocrity that follow.

I’d watch the Celtics, Cavs, Kings, and Nuggets for sure as targets. Maybe the Pelicans. 29 teams in the league would be calling.
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Re: HEAT vs MAGIC // 3.11.2023 /// 7p 

Post#402 » by MHeat0279 » Mon Mar 13, 2023 1:28 pm

3ammy3uck3ts wrote:
MHeat0279 wrote:
3ammy3uck3ts wrote:Mheat if you had to guess Bams shooting percentage in the playoffs when guarded by “time lord” what do you think it would be?


Did he get shut down or not? Bam doesnt have the skills to score at will like Embiid, Giannis etc etc those are elite players. Bam is not and you dont build a franchise around non elite players. Up until last season all it took was a tall guy to disable Bam's limited offensive game, this year his jumper is a lot better and as you can see he can score more, but to call him elite is crazy.


Who said he’s Embiid or Gianni’s? Who said he’s the first option on a championship team? You equate elite with PPG when that’s only a fraction of the game (a fraction Bam is also pretty damn good at). I mean hell you just said yourself he’s improving, so why have you been acting like he’s a finished product?

What did he have in game 7? What did he have last game against the Celtics this season vs “Timelord”


Not equating Elite with PPG, lets take for example Giannis ( an elite player who can score basically at will ) he is in fourth place in PPG but also tied up in 2nd place in defense rebounds per game with Nikola. He is elite because he can take over and impact a game only dominant players can do, not only a couple of games here and there, he can dominate a whole series. I am not acting like he is a finished product because as you can see by his improvement in his jumper he is not a finished product, i just do not see him as ever reaching elite potential and therefore building a team around him not a smart decision. Nothing wrong with not being elite, plenty of extremely good players retired without a ring in their resume.
My second point here is we as a team have not worked Bam the right way, how can you explain after 6 years in the league a guy with his size doesnt have a semi reliable post offensive game? sometimes i wonder what the hell our coaching staff is doing during the offseason, what is this very good development progame we have? we get some scrubs to shoot a good percentage from 3 during a season and then they drop off back to their norm? is that even called development, because i see Vincent and company exactly with the same crappy game from when they came to the league. Have they developed a go to move? No they havent, all they do is shoot 3's at a horrible clip and then we call them DEVELOPED. Coaching and trainers need to be replaced, all of them. That would be a start.
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Re: HEAT vs MAGIC // 3.11.2023 /// 7p 

Post#403 » by MHeat0279 » Mon Mar 13, 2023 1:36 pm

Jfh20 wrote:
Pharenheit wrote:
3ammy3uck3ts wrote:
You can talk **** all you want lol he’s just a player on my favorite team but at least be reasonable. The **** some of you say is just flat out wrong and is easily debunked if you just take 2 minutes and open your eyes lol. You all see a tough stretch of games and come out the woodworks saying he’s trash and a finished product and this and that and completely forget everything else he’s done this season. He’s been the ONE constant and he was an all star for a reason.

You guys are attacking the one guy that’s showed up majority of the season.


I’ve opened my eyes and don’t like what I see. He’s made a lot of improvements but I’m not ready to call him a franchise guy until I see that he can make the 3 consistently or can recruit someone of worth to Miami two of which likely won’t happen


hes not a franchise guy, not even close. no one we draft, since wade, has been a franchise guy or even close to it... and apparently riley had to be convinced to take wade, he wanted another bust as well (kaman) or something. I think it could also be spo making these picks, youd think riley would give him some leeway to building his own teams... and just take who the coach wants. We need to clean house.


I am not sure if Wade messed us all up or really opened our eyes, as soon as that guy stepped in Miami, you could see the talent and how easy and natural was for him to score in multiple ways, the balls he had from the very beginnig taking that last shot to beat the Hornets in the playoffs. Thanks God we had Stan as coach back then, Spobot probably would have glue his a ss to the bench or make him play PF or Center.
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Re: HEAT vs MAGIC // 3.11.2023 /// 7p 

Post#404 » by MHeat0279 » Mon Mar 13, 2023 1:52 pm

Shewasfly wrote:
Pharenheit wrote:I genuinely hope I’m wrong on Bam and that he can be that guy. But which star player doesn’t shoot 3s in todays nba. It’s essentially a prerequisite in todays game

You've been on point with your posts, but I disagree with the last sentence. Wade would be just as dominant today not shooting 3s. And of course we all know Giannis is the best player in the league while being a horrid 3 point shooter.

But I know what the response will be for that: "Wade was a generational talent/Giannis is a freak of nature, that's too high of a standard to go by" which I will concede. But you know who isn't a generational talent who can be first option and dominate when he wants to without 3s? Jimmy Butler. It was actually funny watching people turn Jimmy's blase approach into the worst thing ever, when the fact that Jimmy can give you 25-30 while looking like he's not giving af, is a testament to how great he is.

Since last year, when I was actually one of the biggest defenders of Bam, I thought Bam could have that same approach. So I was one of the loudest ones saying Bam doesn't need to develop a 3. I thought he can just be a bully downlow and be a source of constant rim pressure. One that we could dump the ball down to and generate 2 points, easy. And further more be something in the offense that could actually help pull defenders away from our shooters/supporting cast, the way that stars do for their teammates.

But that hasn't been the case. Bam has improved on offense, but the way that Bam scores, has none of those desired effects. Since we all love twitter threads, there was a twitter thread on it that was posted previously. I wish I was on that platform to find it. But the gist is, he scores inside, but he's more finesse than anything, and the defense often doesn't have to move much to defend him. They are okay with single covered contested mid range jumpers in the paint, even if he can now make them at a decent clip. Basically, it doesn't move the needle in the way I'd hoped.

All that is to say, the realization that I've come to that we all need to eventually come to, is that what is hampering Bam and is a part of what hurts this offense, is that he's not a C. But he is forced to play as one because of his offensive and other limitations. The way that Bam scores has further solidified himself as a PF, and so your conclusion that he must develop a 3 is correct. This does not get into how defensively him at C is also a detriment, since he is not a good rebounder and absolutely cannot hang with defending bigger, stronger players without help.


this is a very interesting point of view and extremely well explained. I think part of his shortcomings on offense, especially in the post is our coaching and training here in Miami. Its unnaceptable he can not score down in the post after all this years. Anthony Mason was an allstart in his stint with the Heat, much older than Bam, and he was almost scoring at will down in the post, drawing fouls and disrupting the other team's defenders in the paint. There is absolutely no reason for Bam not to have a more rounded game and dominate most of the competition every night, he is athletic, decent size, very good defender ( not really a shot blocker, in part because a lot of the time he needs to be guarding the perimeter as well, because our perimeter players are a traffic cone )
Bottom line in my mind i think he can be better and more consistent than wha he is right now, i dont think he will ever be Elite because he doesnt have the natural scoring touch, but he can definitely improve more all around.
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Re: HEAT vs MAGIC // 3.11.2023 /// 7p 

Post#405 » by MHeat0279 » Mon Mar 13, 2023 1:53 pm

3ammy3uck3ts wrote:
Pokuokic wrote:If I'm the Denver Nuggets I'm offering Murray/Gordan+ picks for Bam/Herro (Herro does not even need to be part of the deal, would even take Lowry's expiring deal) or filler next season your not getting a better fit next to Jokic and it's a amazing fit for Bam as well if the Heat/Heat fans don't think he's a franchise guy.


As a Heat fan it would suck to see him go but at this point I hope he’s traded just to see the **** storm and many years of mediocrity that follow.

I’d watch the Celtics, Cavs, Kings, and Nuggets for sure as targets. Maybe the Pelicans. 29 teams in the league would be calling.


Bammy we are already mediocre, of course we would be worse without Bam, but we are not winning crap with what we have right now, not now and not in 10 years.
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Re: HEAT vs MAGIC // 3.11.2023 /// 7p 

Post#406 » by 3ammy3uck3ts » Mon Mar 13, 2023 1:57 pm

MHeat0279 wrote:
3ammy3uck3ts wrote:
Pokuokic wrote:If I'm the Denver Nuggets I'm offering Murray/Gordan+ picks for Bam/Herro (Herro does not even need to be part of the deal, would even take Lowry's expiring deal) or filler next season your not getting a better fit next to Jokic and it's a amazing fit for Bam as well if the Heat/Heat fans don't think he's a franchise guy.


As a Heat fan it would suck to see him go but at this point I hope he’s traded just to see the **** storm and many years of mediocrity that follow.

I’d watch the Celtics, Cavs, Kings, and Nuggets for sure as targets. Maybe the Pelicans. 29 teams in the league would be calling.


Bammy we are already mediocre, of course we would be worse without Bam, but we are not winning crap with what we have right now, not now and not in 10 years.


With an extra piece or 2 last season and no injuries in 2020 we probably already have a championship, good morning!
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Re: HEAT vs MAGIC // 3.11.2023 /// 7p 

Post#407 » by MHeat0279 » Mon Mar 13, 2023 2:07 pm

3ammy3uck3ts wrote:
MHeat0279 wrote:
3ammy3uck3ts wrote:
As a Heat fan it would suck to see him go but at this point I hope he’s traded just to see the **** storm and many years of mediocrity that follow.

I’d watch the Celtics, Cavs, Kings, and Nuggets for sure as targets. Maybe the Pelicans. 29 teams in the league would be calling.


Bammy we are already mediocre, of course we would be worse without Bam, but we are not winning crap with what we have right now, not now and not in 10 years.


With an extra piece or 2 last season and no injuries in 2020 we probably already have a championship, good morning!


Assumption, lakers destroyed us with size. Nothing you could do about that, not even Bam. Also our shooters were unconscious from 3 bubble year, as you can see that was not the normal output from our guys. So a lot of things ( like always ) have to go the right way in order to win it all.
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Re: HEAT vs MAGIC // 3.11.2023 /// 7p 

Post#408 » by 3ammy3uck3ts » Mon Mar 13, 2023 2:13 pm

MHeat0279 wrote:
3ammy3uck3ts wrote:
MHeat0279 wrote:
Bammy we are already mediocre, of course we would be worse without Bam, but we are not winning crap with what we have right now, not now and not in 10 years.


With an extra piece or 2 last season and no injuries in 2020 we probably already have a championship, good morning!


Assumption, lakers destroyed us with size. Nothing you could do about that, not even Bam. Also our shooters were unconscious from 3 bubble year, as you can see that was not the normal output from our guys. So a lot of things ( like always ) have to go the right way in order to win it all.


I feel like having our best rebounder, defender, and 2nd and 3rd leading scorers/playmakers for the playoffs would’ve helped alot in the series to be honest.

A lot of things always have to go right for teams to win the championship
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Re: HEAT vs MAGIC // 3.11.2023 /// 7p 

Post#409 » by wade44 » Mon Mar 13, 2023 3:45 pm

Shewasfly wrote:
Pharenheit wrote:I genuinely hope I’m wrong on Bam and that he can be that guy. But which star player doesn’t shoot 3s in todays nba. It’s essentially a prerequisite in todays game

You've been on point with your posts, but I disagree with the last sentence. Wade would be just as dominant today not shooting 3s. And of course we all know Giannis is the best player in the league while being a horrid 3 point shooter.

But I know what the response will be for that: "Wade was a generational talent/Giannis is a freak of nature, that's too high of a standard to go by" which I will concede. But you know who isn't a generational talent who can be first option and dominate when he wants to without 3s? Jimmy Butler. It was actually funny watching people turn Jimmy's blase approach into the worst thing ever, when the fact that Jimmy can give you 25-30 while looking like he's not giving af, is a testament to how great he is.

Since last year, when I was actually one of the biggest defenders of Bam, I thought Bam could have that same approach. So I was one of the loudest ones saying Bam doesn't need to develop a 3. I thought he can just be a bully downlow and be a source of constant rim pressure. One that we could dump the ball down to and generate 2 points, easy. And further more be something in the offense that could actually help pull defenders away from our shooters/supporting cast, the way that stars do for their teammates.

But that hasn't been the case. Bam has improved on offense, but the way that Bam scores, has none of those desired effects. Since we all love twitter threads, there was a twitter thread on it that was posted previously. I wish I was on that platform to find it. But the gist is, he scores inside, but he's more finesse than anything, and the defense often doesn't have to move much to defend him. They are okay with single covered contested mid range jumpers in the paint, even if he can now make them at a decent clip. Basically, it doesn't move the needle in the way I'd hoped.

All that is to say, the realization that I've come to that we all need to eventually come to, is that what is hampering Bam and is a part of what hurts this offense, is that he's not a C. But he is forced to play as one because of his offensive and other limitations. The way that Bam scores has further solidified himself as a PF, and so your conclusion that he must develop a 3 is correct. This does not get into how defensively him at C is also a detriment, since he is not a good rebounder and absolutely cannot hang with defending bigger, stronger players without help.


For sure guys like Wade, Jimmy, and Giannis are special cases where they’re so polarizing in other facets of their game that a 3 point shot is not required. Put even 2009 Wade in todays game he averages 35 a game no question. But someone with a much more limited offensive skill set in Bam needs to add that weapon to his game to make up for what he lacks. Also agreed Bam is a natural PF playing out of position because he can’t shoot. He’s a talented guy but awkward in fit for any team because of the way the game is played today
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Re: HEAT vs MAGIC // 3.11.2023 /// 7p 

Post#410 » by Jfh20 » Mon Mar 13, 2023 5:02 pm

MHeat0279 wrote:
Jfh20 wrote:
Pharenheit wrote:
I’ve opened my eyes and don’t like what I see. He’s made a lot of improvements but I’m not ready to call him a franchise guy until I see that he can make the 3 consistently or can recruit someone of worth to Miami two of which likely won’t happen


hes not a franchise guy, not even close. no one we draft, since wade, has been a franchise guy or even close to it... and apparently riley had to be convinced to take wade, he wanted another bust as well (kaman) or something. I think it could also be spo making these picks, youd think riley would give him some leeway to building his own teams... and just take who the coach wants. We need to clean house.


I am not sure if Wade messed us all up or really opened our eyes, as soon as that guy stepped in Miami, you could see the talent and how easy and natural was for him to score in multiple ways, the balls he had from the very beginnig taking that last shot to beat the Hornets in the playoffs. Thanks God we had Stan as coach back then, Spobot probably would have glue his a ss to the bench or make him play PF or Center.


ya, spo thinks basketball is like algebra or calculus or something... its not rocket science.... just build a basketball team from position 1 through 5 and thats all. we dont need to complicate things and try to find some 5 foot center that jumps like air jordan and shoot the logo three also... and as we remember, wade almost knocked spo out in that one series against indiana and jimmy too... hes not exactly a players coach thats for sure and doubt many like him.
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Re: HEAT vs MAGIC // 3.11.2023 /// 7p 

Post#411 » by gom » Tue Mar 14, 2023 11:56 pm

LOL at this criticism about Spo who can coach rings around any of you and most of the coaches in the nba (Pop is still better... sorry). How did the level of this forum fall so far? Try harder.
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Re: HEAT vs MAGIC // 3.11.2023 /// 7p 

Post#412 » by Shewasfly » Thu Mar 16, 2023 12:07 am

Jfh20 wrote:
MHeat0279 wrote:
Jfh20 wrote:
hes not a franchise guy, not even close. no one we draft, since wade, has been a franchise guy or even close to it... and apparently riley had to be convinced to take wade, he wanted another bust as well (kaman) or something. I think it could also be spo making these picks, youd think riley would give him some leeway to building his own teams... and just take who the coach wants. We need to clean house.


I am not sure if Wade messed us all up or really opened our eyes, as soon as that guy stepped in Miami, you could see the talent and how easy and natural was for him to score in multiple ways, the balls he had from the very beginnig taking that last shot to beat the Hornets in the playoffs. Thanks God we had Stan as coach back then, Spobot probably would have glue his a ss to the bench or make him play PF or Center.


ya, spo thinks basketball is like algebra or calculus or something... its not rocket science.... just build a basketball team from position 1 through 5 and thats all. we dont need to complicate things and try to find some 5 foot center that jumps like air jordan and shoot the logo three also... and as we remember, wade almost knocked spo out in that one series against indiana and jimmy too... hes not exactly a players coach thats for sure and doubt many like him.

I feel like this is the opposite of what we actually see. Wade actually LOVES Spo lol. And remember when we had the big 3, the criticism of Spo was that he was too much of a players coach and wouldn't be able to keep them in check. It wasn't until the Bosh "we just wanna chill" comments after a couple of years of them being together, that that narrative changed.

Tbh Wade seems to have kept a better relationship with Spo than Riley. Riley made the mistake of taking out his anger with LeBron on Wade, and even despite Riley seemingly since realizing the error of that, their relationship has never fully recovered.
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Re: HEAT vs MAGIC // 3.11.2023 /// 7p 

Post#413 » by Jfh20 » Thu Mar 16, 2023 2:31 am

gom wrote:LOL at this criticism about Spo who can coach rings around any of you and most of the coaches in the nba (Pop is still better... sorry). How did the level of this forum fall so far? Try harder.


lol oh right, i forgot this FO and coaching staff can do no wrong!! and how dare the fans have any criticism for this FO on the verge of becoming lottery bound....
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Re: HEAT vs MAGIC // 3.11.2023 /// 7p 

Post#414 » by gom » Thu Mar 16, 2023 5:17 am

Jfh20 wrote:
gom wrote:LOL at this criticism about Spo who can coach rings around any of you and most of the coaches in the nba (Pop is still better... sorry). How did the level of this forum fall so far? Try harder.


lol oh right, i forgot this FO and coaching staff can do no wrong!! and how dare the fans have any criticism for this FO on the verge of becoming lottery bound....


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