Trade Discussion 22/23

[ozwizard8]

Kidd has personal problems with Wood, it's been clear since the 1st week, and a coach who drove away his top tier assistant, his 2 FA signings (Sterling Brown and Javale McGee) were total failures, is unable to draw up normal late game plays, can't utilize highly flawed but also very useful players (Wood and Bertans), and can't handle post game press conference has no place in this league, let alone lead a team with flawed roster and emotional player in a quasi-crisis like Luka.
Bucks figured out he's the problem and got rid of him, I wonder when will Mavs do the same, in the meantime their presstitutes are busy mocking the fanbase for stating the obvious.

Fire Rick and you get Kidd. Believe it or not Kidd is a pretty average coach in this league. Who says Kidd sign those two players? Even if he did those are vet. min and MLE contracts. So not a huge ****.

Highly flawed but also very useful players...
Wow do we have those? Seth Curry? Brook Lopez maybe? Those are flawed but very useful players.

Sorry but Bertans at this stage of his career is not a very useful player. Bertans was suffering to get minutes in a non-playoff team Wizards. Would Bertans get a vet min on open market? I think he'd return to Euroleague pretty soon. Dinwiddie had some flaws coming to Mavs but Kidd and the roster helped him peak. Bertans is beyond saving.

Wood is useful for bench-scoring. But he cannot play any team basketball or defense. C.Wood worked with like 6-7 coaches in the league. At some point, you need to blame Wood not the coaches. Useful for tanking teams.

***

One note on Wood's minutes would be his contract. We really dont know if Mavs FO wants Wood to play 35 mpg and pad his stats to increase his next contract. Him not extending the contract might be influencing his rotation minutes.

[Mavrelous]

Fire Rick and you get Kidd. Believe it or not Kidd is a pretty average coach in this league. Who says Kidd sign those two players? Even if he did those are vet. min and MLE contracts. So not a huge ****.

Highly flawed but also very useful players...
Wow do we have those? Seth Curry? Brook Lopez maybe? Those are flawed but very useful players.

Sorry but Bertans at this stage of his career is not a very useful player. Bertans was suffering to get minutes in a non-playoff team Wizards. Would Bertans get a vet min on open market? I think he'd return to Euroleague pretty soon. Dinwiddie had some flaws coming to Mavs but Kidd and the roster helped him peak. Bertans is beyond saving.

Wood is useful for bench-scoring. But he cannot play any team basketball or defense. C.Wood worked with like 6-7 coaches in the league. At some point, you need to blame Wood not the coaches. Useful for tanking teams.

***

One note on Wood's minutes would be his contract. We really dont know if Mavs FO wants Wood to play 35 mpg and pad his stats to increase his next contract. Him not extending the contract might be influencing his rotation minutes.

No one fired Rick, he quit, and to the most on this board, it came out of the blue along with the turmoil of Nelson being fired.
Bertans has been a positive every time he got real rotation minutes, Wood is athletic, long isolation scorer, who can be a great release valve when Luka is doubled, both could've been used much more than they are being used, I don't get the Bertans comments, yeah he's a very bad defender, but he's a great shooter, moves the ball extremely well, great on the fast break, every time he's called he does a great job, Sam Hauser is getting 15 MPG on the Celtics, Bertans isn't getting 11.
It's not like the Mavs are fielding OG and Jaylen Brown, Frank Ntilikina and Theo Pinson are getting PT over him
Both Sterling Brown and Javale played for Kidd and it was rumored he asked for them, with Javale it was obvious since he was promised the starting role, he wouldn't have been if Kidd wasn't the one asking for him or at least signing off on it.

[41Dirk41]

I'm pretty sure that the Mavs are playing Powell more minutes possible for be sure other teams understand how he sucks and avoid any bidding war next off season

I can't understand a couple of things:

- Some of you have probably right and he can't play any type of team basketball or defense but Powell? Can 4 Mavs players with Wood be worse than the same 4 players with Powell???

- If a owner trade a 1RP for a player who never had a really chance to crack the rotations (Kidd gave up on him after the training Camp)so could he be happy for what happens?

it's all surreal. Honestly.

[BliscoSantos]

Mavs have a lot of big men that's why Kidd isn't playing Wood more(his words)...is he dumb or does he think we(he fans) are? Who are this big men... McGee isn't playing, that leaves Maxi and Powell ..Morris also isn't playing

[Archx]

- Some of you have probably right and he can't play any type of team basketball or defense but Powell? Can 4 Mavs players with Wood be worse than the same 4 players with Powell???

Easy answers, which are too hard for Mavs coaching staff to figure out. But us amateurs, who are also just watching, can pretty much do it by the eye and reading stats.

Who can play with Wood? Well, apparently Luka, DFS, Josh and THJ did pretty well. They had one of the league's highest +45pt difference as a 5 man unit but Kidd used them together less than the garbage time players.

After the trade, the next two best 5 man lineups both feature Luka and Wood in it and no Powell. But hey, you know, apparently Powell is some kind of a defensive juggernaut and Luka should be traded (at least that's what some people are trying to convince us here today)

[Teffer10]

Mavs have a lot of big men that's why Kidd isn't playing Wood more(his words)...is he dumb or does he think we(he fans) are? Who are this big men... McGee isn't playing, that leaves Maxi and Powell ..Morris also isn't playing

I had to replay when I heard him say that to make sure I heard it right. This team is one of the worst interior defensive teams in the league so what does that say for the FO and coach.
And we only have 1 7 footer and only 2 over 6'10.

This team only has two NBA caliber bigs and Wood is one of them.

[fuller4379]

Lol you don't trade a 24 years old generational talent who's still under contract for the next three seasons at least.

I guess we will see soon if the Kyrie gamble works. This is Luka's fifth season and they have failed to surround him with any talent. Sure, the bad KP trade didn't help, but I don't trust the Mavs in being able to find decent talent to surround him in the future. In four years they have gotten beyond the first round of the playoffs once. I am looking at this in a logical manner as opposed to an emotional one. Management has built a very bad team around him. They have a lot of overpaid and underperforming players on their team. Outside of Luka and Kyrie, who on this team is a legitimate starter on a championship caliber team? Green and Kleber are the only two other players that have any value at all.

1. You’re not being logical at all. This is a horrendously bad take. In the history of the NBA there has been less than a handful of teams to win the NBA championship without a top 5ish player. All of team building in the NBA is all about finding the Luka Doncic’s of the world.

2. Dallas has had Luka and Kyrie for 10 games. I have food in my fridge that is older than their time playing together. I don’t know what you people thought this was going got be like but it was never going to be pretty all the time. They need time to gel. They need a offseason to work together and the team needs an offseason to figure out how to figure out the defense without DFS. DFS was our 3rd best on ball defender this season but I under estimated how important his defensive leadership was so they need to replace that.

3. Luka is signed through 25/26 and Kyrie looks great. Right now is the time to push all the chips into the middle and double down. We will have 2 1st round picks to trade in the offseason. There are a plethora of defenders and big men Dallas can target which is all this team really needs, especially considering Dallas actually has some young talent to develop.

4. If Dallas trades Luka 24 months from now he will still be equally as valuable to us and we could always start a rebuild then.

All in all trading Luka is a brain dead idea

What is brain dead is to keep surrounding Luka with players who would be 8th in the rotation on a normal playoff team and expecting the team to make a championship run. The Mavs franchise is heading into reverse. The third best player on the team is Josh Green. $50 million in cap space the next two years is dead space in THJ, Bertans, Kleber, and McGee. The Kyrie Irving deal is looking worse every day. If Kyrie leaves will have $25 million in cap space, but the free agents haven't been coming to Dallas. The best thing to do at this point is to trade Luka if they can get a haul similar to what Phoenix gave up for KD.

[Bob8]

I guess we will see soon if the Kyrie gamble works. This is Luka's fifth season and they have failed to surround him with any talent. Sure, the bad KP trade didn't help, but I don't trust the Mavs in being able to find decent talent to surround him in the future. In four years they have gotten beyond the first round of the playoffs once. I am looking at this in a logical manner as opposed to an emotional one. Management has built a very bad team around him. They have a lot of overpaid and underperforming players on their team. Outside of Luka and Kyrie, who on this team is a legitimate starter on a championship caliber team? Green and Kleber are the only two other players that have any value at all.

1. You’re not being logical at all. This is a horrendously bad take. In the history of the NBA there has been less than a handful of teams to win the NBA championship without a top 5ish player. All of team building in the NBA is all about finding the Luka Doncic’s of the world.

2. Dallas has had Luka and Kyrie for 10 games. I have food in my fridge that is older than their time playing together. I don’t know what you people thought this was going got be like but it was never going to be pretty all the time. They need time to gel. They need a offseason to work together and the team needs an offseason to figure out how to figure out the defense without DFS. DFS was our 3rd best on ball defender this season but I under estimated how important his defensive leadership was so they need to replace that.

3. Luka is signed through 25/26 and Kyrie looks great. Right now is the time to push all the chips into the middle and double down. We will have 2 1st round picks to trade in the offseason. There are a plethora of defenders and big men Dallas can target which is all this team really needs, especially considering Dallas actually has some young talent to develop.

4. If Dallas trades Luka 24 months from now he will still be equally as valuable to us and we could always start a rebuild then.

All in all trading Luka is a brain dead idea

What is brain dead is to keep surrounding Luka with players who would be 8th in the rotation on a normal playoff team and expecting the team to make a championship run. The Mavs franchise is heading into reverse. The third best player on the team is Josh Green. $50 million in cap space the next two years is dead space in THJ, Bertans, Kleber, and McGee. The Kyrie Irving deal is looking worse every day. If Kyrie leaves will have $25 million in cap space, but the free agents haven't been coming to Dallas. The best thing to do at this point is to trade Luka if they can get a haul similar to what Phoenix gave up for KD.

And how many wins would you get with 2 solid starters and 3 late first round picks instead of Luka, Kyrie gone of course? You would basically have a team similar to that before Kyrie trade and no Luka, which couldn't win a single game.

[BliscoSantos]

Kidd did good last year but this season he's Just been horrible...i don't think he's Head coach material...he's a good assistant but bad Head coach...the problem is Cuban won't fire him(because of the championship as a Player and good coaching Job last season) which means even if they do upgrade the roster next season the Mavs are gonna be playing basically without a coach(Just by Player inspiration)

[Mavrelous]

The Luka citicism is wild to me, this is the guy that took healthy prime clippers to 7, with a team lacking defensive players and beat heavy favourites Suns, the team was constantly 50 wins level team for 3 years.
He's struggling this year, and still almost leading the league in scoring, and doing it effeciently.
Luka may very well ask out, but I sure hope he doesn't, every year except this one has been a pure joy to watch.

[Archx]

The Luka citicism is wild to me, this is the guy that took healthy prime clippers to 7, with a team lacking defensive players and beat heavy favourites Suns, the team was constantly 50 wins level team for 3 years.
He's struggling this year, and still almost leading the league in scoring, and doing it effeciently.
Luka may very well ask out, but I sure hope he doesn't, every year except this one has been a pure joy to watch.

He was a very top MVP candidate until he got injured. We said at the start that Kidd will run him in to the ground. Now that it really happened, he's suddenly someone who Mavs have to get rid off to get better. Yep, that's the logic according to some here.

He's also dealing with injuries for some time now. He got injured already before the all star break and i guess he never fully recovered. Problem is, Kidd is not doing him any favours either by managing his minutes so insanely stupid.

This guy needs minutes to develop aswell, but i guess playing Frank was more important over the year.

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[arkuo]

Is there a world where this happens in 2 to 3 seasons?

C- Defensive center
PF- Doncic
SF- Green
SG- Hardy
PG- Irving

Because if neither Green or Hardy gets a shot at starting, I don't see the point of keeping them versus adding them in a package that can net a starter. That's an eventual THJ and Reggie Bullock replacement IMO.

PS- I want that center to be Jaren Jackson Jr in 2026 when he is UFA. Once he realizes Memphis is a mess and he can do better without Ja and his guns. The team will be completely without THJ, Bertans and Kleber by then.

[Rand10]

Is there a world where this happens in 2 to 3 seasons?

C- Defensive center
PF- Doncic
SF- Green
SG- Hardy
PG- Irving

Because if neither Green or Hardy gets a shot at starting, I don't see the point of keeping them versus adding them in a package that can net a starter. That's an eventual THJ and Reggie Bullock replacement IMO.

PS- I want that center to be Jaren Jackson Jr in 2026 when he is UFA. Once he realizes Memphis is a mess and he can do better without Ja and his guns. The team will be completely without THJ, Bertans and Kleber by then.

I don't see Hardy as a long term fit in the starting lineup. There's no way the trio of Hardy/Luka/Kyrie gets it done defensively. Moving him makes sense if that's what it takes to acquire a starter. I'm definitely hanging on to Green though.

[Mike lorenzo]

Is there a world where this happens in 2 to 3 seasons?

C- Defensive center
PF- Doncic
SF- Green
SG- Hardy
PG- Irving

Because if neither Green or Hardy gets a shot at starting, I don't see the point of keeping them versus adding them in a package that can net a starter. That's an eventual THJ and Reggie Bullock replacement IMO.

PS- I want that center to be Jaren Jackson Jr in 2026 when he is UFA. Once he realizes Memphis is a mess and he can do better without Ja and his guns. The team will be completely without THJ, Bertans and Kleber by then.

I don't think starting Hardy alongside Luka/KI is a good idea...although if he can replace THJ as a good 6 man that would be huge.. THJ+2 FRP (Unprotected) what would it give us?? I guess with the cap going up and only 2 years on a decreasing contract, Tim will be close to being a very mobile contract (Beasley was seen as positive, for example). Can this give us OG Anunoby?

[arkuo]

If Hardy can add a bit more defense to his game, he slots right in to replace THJ. Then there is no need to resign THJ to a fresh $80M for 4 year contract. You can trade him as an expiring for simply let him walk. Just with offense alone, I think Hardy can match THJ's scoring, so that cancels out. It's what they can bring on defense that would matter IMO. Hardy and Josh Green will eventually have big games and their numbers will eventually rise, as an effect, this would lead to a bigger contract when the time comes. So if Mavs have no plans to sign them to a bigger deal to keep them, then trading them for value is ideal.

[Bob8]

If Hardy can add a bit more defense to his game, he slots right in to replace THJ. Then there is no need to resign THJ to a fresh $80M for 4 year contract. You can trade him as an expiring for simply let him walk. Just with offense alone, I think Hardy can match THJ's scoring, so that cancels out. It's what they can bring on defense that would matter IMO. Hardy and Josh Green will eventually have big games and their numbers will eventually rise, as an effect, this would lead to a bigger contract when the time comes. So if Mavs have no plans to sign them to a bigger deal to keep them, then trading them for value is ideal.

The problem for Hardy is that he needs the ball in his hands and he won't get it with Luka and Kyrie here. You just can't play 3 high usage no D players in the same team and Hardy isn't efficient enough in comparison to other 2. Changing Kyrie for Ayton and letting Hardy play more would be the best case scenario for Mavs. Trading Hardy wouldn't bring you much anyway.

[leolozon]

The Luka citicism is wild to me, this is the guy that took healthy prime clippers to 7, with a team lacking defensive players and beat heavy favourites Suns, the team was constantly 50 wins level team for 3 years.
He's struggling this year, and still almost leading the league in scoring, and doing it effeciently.
Luka may very well ask out, but I sure hope he doesn't, every year except this one has been a pure joy to watch.

He was a very top MVP candidate until he got injured. We said at the start that Kidd will run him in to the ground. Now that it really happened, he's suddenly someone who Mavs have to get rid off to get better. Yep, that's the logic according to some here.

He's also dealing with injuries for some time now. He got injured already before the all star break and i guess he never fully recovered. Problem is, Kidd is not doing him any favours either by managing his minutes so insanely stupid. ]

He’s not doing himself any favour by still being out of shape in his 5th year. He doesn’t take his body seriously and he’s paying for it. Meanwhile, he’s supposedly a grandmaster in a video game. Anyone wants to take a guess at how many hours he spends playing video games to be able to be that good at it?

[Archx]

The Luka citicism is wild to me, this is the guy that took healthy prime clippers to 7, with a team lacking defensive players and beat heavy favourites Suns, the team was constantly 50 wins level team for 3 years.
He's struggling this year, and still almost leading the league in scoring, and doing it effeciently.
Luka may very well ask out, but I sure hope he doesn't, every year except this one has been a pure joy to watch.

He was a very top MVP candidate until he got injured. We said at the start that Kidd will run him in to the ground. Now that it really happened, he's suddenly someone who Mavs have to get rid off to get better. Yep, that's the logic according to some here.

He's also dealing with injuries for some time now. He got injured already before the all star break and i guess he never fully recovered. Problem is, Kidd is not doing him any favours either by managing his minutes so insanely stupid. ]

He’s not doing himself any favour by still being out of shape in his 5th year. He doesn’t take his body seriously and he’s paying for it. Meanwhile, he’s supposedly a grandmaster in a video game. Anyone wants to take a guess at how many hours he spends playing video games to be able to be that good at it?

He already has his dad's body shape I don't know, for some people it's more difficult to mantain great body, he's a pro athlete so in theory, he should be more in shape. But problem is, he's playing for his national team almost every year and has almost no time to rest. Every guy takes some time to heal and rehab and then when it's time to work out, he simply runs out of days to do so.

I guess a full off-season just for himself (like Jokic did), would be huge for him. The thing is, he won't have a lot of time this offseason aswell since he's AGAIN going to play for national team.(if i'm not mistaken).

[arkuo]

If Hardy can add a bit more defense to his game, he slots right in to replace THJ. Then there is no need to resign THJ to a fresh $80M for 4 year contract. You can trade him as an expiring for simply let him walk. Just with offense alone, I think Hardy can match THJ's scoring, so that cancels out. It's what they can bring on defense that would matter IMO. Hardy and Josh Green will eventually have big games and their numbers will eventually rise, as an effect, this would lead to a bigger contract when the time comes. So if Mavs have no plans to sign them to a bigger deal to keep them, then trading them for value is ideal.

The problem for Hardy is that he needs the ball in his hands and he won't get it with Luka and Kyrie here. You just can't play 3 high usage no D players in the same team and Hardy isn't efficient enough in comparison to other 2. Changing Kyrie for Ayton and letting Hardy play more would be the best case scenario for Mavs. Trading Hardy wouldn't bring you much anyway.

If you trade away Kyrie for a lesser dominant player, Luka will simply waive everyone off and go back to his usual dribbling for 19 seconds and do something late in the shot clock. You need a counter ballast to keep Luka in check. Kyrie has actual gravitas that Luka defers to him on some possessions including the 4th. Getting Ayton would mean Luka getting 50 point triple doubles and back to 4 other guys watching him dribble around. That might get you a lot of regular season wins but not a lot of playoff wins. Mavs have done that method for 4.5 years now.

[arkuo]

He was a very top MVP candidate until he got injured. We said at the start that Kidd will run him in to the ground. Now that it really happened, he's suddenly someone who Mavs have to get rid off to get better. Yep, that's the logic according to some here.

He's also dealing with injuries for some time now. He got injured already before the all star break and i guess he never fully recovered. Problem is, Kidd is not doing him any favours either by managing his minutes so insanely stupid. ]

He’s not doing himself any favour by still being out of shape in his 5th year. He doesn’t take his body seriously and he’s paying for it. Meanwhile, he’s supposedly a grandmaster in a video game. Anyone wants to take a guess at how many hours he spends playing video games to be able to be that good at it?

He already has his dad's body shape I don't know, for some people it's more difficult to mantain great body, he's a pro athlete so in theory, he should be more in shape. But problem is, he's playing for his national team almost every year and has almost no time to rest. Every guy takes some time to heal and rehab and then when it's time to work out, he simply runs out of days to do so.

I guess a full off-season just for himself (like Jokic did), would be huge for him. The thing is, he won't have a lot of time this offseason aswell since he's AGAIN going to play for national team.(if i'm not mistaken).

Luka wants to get his flowers and be worshipped like Spanoulis. He likes the attention, the highlights, the flashy cars, that lifestyle. But he's rushing things. Part of his injury is he doesn't have an actual offseason, after the NBA, he plays in Europe then the Olympics if there is one that year. Cuban has been opposed to this before because its the NBA team who shoulders most of the risk due to injury. But I dont think Luka is mature enough to figure that part yet. For a young person, you would like the attention, the lights, the cameras. So hopefully he has a Jokic moment and actually decides to lose weight from his own initiative. His man boobs have been bouncing bad this year every time he runs. He tries to do so many things, he'll end up without an NBA ring and an olympic medal altogether.