Game 68: Phoenix Suns (37-30) @ Golden State Warriors (35-33) l Monday l 7:00pm l ESPN

[SunsRback4Good]

Last nights loss is on Monty.
It’s come to a point in the season he needs to play guys who know how to play.
TJ makes wide open shots. His defense is just as good as Craig. Maybe better.

I am a big fan of TJ Warren and I can guarantee you that he is worse than Craig on defense.

Other than that I agree with playing Warren over Craig. Torrey is having a TOUGH time on offense, in his last 10-12 games he can't score at all and he is damaging all our offensive schemes.

I hope Monty gives Warren an opportunity to play big minutes per game. Craig struggles on offense, Ross struggles on defense and KD and Shamet are out...perfect moment to put Warren out there.

I thought Craig was better defensively than Warren too. But then I watch him closely and he’s not really anything special. He’s no lockdown that’s for sure.
So I think for 20 min a game TJ can give the same amount of effort on D and much better offense than Craig.
Honestly, Craig has no business playing over TJ. I wonder if there’s any other coach in this league who would play Craig over TJ.

How many players are truly lockdown defenders in the league besides Butler, Smart, Dray and few others. That word gets overused too much but it’s difficult to be a “ lockdown” defender in a league where offense is more favored then defense.

[sunskerr]

Sucks to say but we are most likely beating up on the Kings and Warriors pretty routinely if KD didnt tweak that ankle. But it is what it is. Just have to make the playoffs healthy. Nobody will want to play us.

Can't really say who I'm worried about the most. Probably Denver, LAC, and Memphis in that order. Denver would have the MVP although I feel confident we could destroy him with KD and Booker. LAC is scary because they have star wings who defend and they got Plumlee for free. Memphis is scary because Ja could drop 50 against old man Paul.

Other teams not so much. So the side that has two of those three teams would be ideal to avoid. GS and Dallas could get hot from 3 and kill you but I think we are favored decently against both so its more uphill for them. If they beat you then they played a great series and hit some great shots and you shake hands.

[thamadkant]

Where KD fits here with Book and CP.

I mean CP will get his and fall back. Where is Ayton and Book in all this?

Monty has an issues with these guys already.

Prove me wrong.

Ever notice when Ayton scores a lot we lose?

Ayton hater symptom.


Ayton has scored 20 plus many games and Suns won comfortably. Don't make me pull out the basketball reference game logs as it would shut you down immediately.

27 points is not much considering Suns were shooting awful from 3pt and Ayton was scoring at near 70% downlow.


What YOU should be focusing on is the the Suns win record when they shoot under 35% from 3pt line. Now if you were a logical guy you would see a blatant pattern that jumps up.

Monty is too reliant on good 3pt shooting... and now mid range. Monty doesn't rely on free throw advantage or points in the paint... hence he likes his centers only catching lobs or sparingly shooting 15 footers with Ayton.... those plays are basically 3 to 4 times a game tops evem though Ayton shoots around 50%.

[thamadkant]

Ill pin this one on Moronty. Had it close so what does this superb tactician do??? Same ol same ol

I will always believe, unless proven otherwise, that Monty is the Suns' Mark Jackson if it were to be compared to the Warriors modern dynasty. Basically, the nice coach before the proper championship coach.

[MrMiyagi]

Sucks to say but we are most likely beating up on the Kings and Warriors pretty routinely if KD didnt tweak that ankle. But it is what it is. Just have to make the playoffs healthy. Nobody will want to play us.

Can't really say who I'm worried about the most. Probably Denver, LAC, and Memphis in that order. Denver would have the MVP although I feel confident we could destroy him with KD and Booker. LAC is scary because they have star wings who defend and they got Plumlee for free. Memphis is scary because Ja could drop 50 against old man Paul.

Other teams not so much. So the side that has two of those three teams would be ideal to avoid. GS and Dallas could get hot from 3 and kill you but I think we are favored decently against both so its more uphill for them. If they beat you then they played a great series and hit some great shots and you shake hands.

Can't wait to say the same thing come playoff time

[TeamTragic]

I think I speak for everyone here when I say that KERR > MONTY

There has to be a better coach out there.

[Jdiddy701]

I think I speak for everyone here when I say that KERR > MONTY

There has to be a better coach out there.

Not me. I wouldn’t trade Monty for any coach in the league and I’m sure the players and the front office feel that way too, except maybe Ayton. There isn’t a coach that’s perfect. Under Monty, there is a lot more good than bad. Grass isn’t always greener. The Suns have one of the best coaches in the league.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[lilfishi22]

I am a big fan of TJ Warren and I can guarantee you that he is worse than Craig on defense.

Other than that I agree with playing Warren over Craig. Torrey is having a TOUGH time on offense, in his last 10-12 games he can't score at all and he is damaging all our offensive schemes.

I hope Monty gives Warren an opportunity to play big minutes per game. Craig struggles on offense, Ross struggles on defense and KD and Shamet are out...perfect moment to put Warren out there.

I thought Craig was better defensively than Warren too. But then I watch him closely and he’s not really anything special. He’s no lockdown that’s for sure.
So I think for 20 min a game TJ can give the same amount of effort on D and much better offense than Craig.
Honestly, Craig has no business playing over TJ. I wonder if there’s any other coach in this league who would play Craig over TJ.

How many players are truly lockdown defenders in the league besides Butler, Smart, Dray and few others. That word gets overused too much but it’s difficult to be a “ lockdown” defender in a league where offense is more favored then defense.

And who has ever called Craig a lockdown defender?

[lilfishi22]

I think I speak for everyone here when I say that KERR > MONTY

There has to be a better coach out there.

One guy is a HOF'er and a multiple time champ as a player and coach so yeah hardly breaking news

[sunsbum]

Where KD fits here with Book and CP.

I mean CP will get his and fall back. Where is Ayton and Book in all this?

Monty has an issues with these guys already.

Prove me wrong.

Ever notice when Ayton scores a lot we lose?

Ayton hater symptom.


Ayton has scored 20 plus many games and Suns won comfortably. Don't make me pull out the basketball reference game logs as it would shut you down immediately.

27 points is not much considering Suns were shooting awful from 3pt and Ayton was scoring at near 70% downlow.


What YOU should be focusing on is the the Suns win record when they shoot under 35% from 3pt line. Now if you were a logical guy you would see a blatant pattern that jumps up.

Monty is too reliant on good 3pt shooting... and now mid range. Monty doesn't rely on free throw advantage or points in the paint... hence he likes his centers only catching lobs or sparingly shooting 15 footers with Ayton.... those plays are basically 3 to 4 times a game tops evem though Ayton shoots around 50%.

Go look at the W/L record when Ayton scores 20+ compared to when he scores less than 20. 40-56 is the suns record when Ayton scores 20+ points. The suns overall record with DA 160-135.... you do the math. hater.

[Puff]

I think I speak for everyone here when I say that KERR > MONTY

There has to be a better coach out there.

One guy is a HOF'er and a multiple time champ as a player and coach so yeah hardly breaking news

When you have an owner with an unlimited pocketbook, your team should have better players and Golden State does have better players than we do.

What Kerr has accomplished is history and cannot be denied. However, he has had far more tools to work with than what Monty Williams has had.

Mike Brown should have been a head coach again prior to this year. Kerr has had the privilege of Mike along with a lot of very talented assistant coaches on the bench with him. Mike is doing a fantastic job in Sacramento.

Someone wrote this week that The Warriors treat their players better than any other organization. Hopefully our new ownership can move up the list.

I will stick with Monty. I cannot stand the new coach in Atlanta.

[lilfishi22]

Ever notice when Ayton scores a lot we lose?

Ayton hater symptom.


Ayton has scored 20 plus many games and Suns won comfortably. Don't make me pull out the basketball reference game logs as it would shut you down immediately.

27 points is not much considering Suns were shooting awful from 3pt and Ayton was scoring at near 70% downlow.


What YOU should be focusing on is the the Suns win record when they shoot under 35% from 3pt line. Now if you were a logical guy you would see a blatant pattern that jumps up.

Monty is too reliant on good 3pt shooting... and now mid range. Monty doesn't rely on free throw advantage or points in the paint... hence he likes his centers only catching lobs or sparingly shooting 15 footers with Ayton.... those plays are basically 3 to 4 times a game tops evem though Ayton shoots around 50%.

Go look at the W/L record when Ayton scores 20+ compared to when he scores less than 20. 40-56 is the suns record when Ayton scores 20+ points. The suns overall record with DA 160-135.... you do the math. hater.

Was listening to the latest Timeline podcast and I'm wholly onboard with their comment that they're past asking more from DA at this point. He is who he is and he'll give you something a little different game in and game out. Dumping the ball into him more might mean he'll score more but...so what? We're again trading DA 2's for 3's on the other end. Last season when we were pretty healthy for most of the year, DA had 20 (out of 58) games where he scored 20 or more and we had a good record of 15-5 so about 75% win rate. The rest of the 38 games where he scored less than 20, we also had a good record of 30-8 so about a 79% win rate

I don't want to dig too deep into what the DA scoring 20pt+ actually means because there could be other factors involved like opponent strength or injuries to other guys which mean DA is forced to score more but also play with a less offensively talented team but to me, on the surface, whether he scores 20+ or not it just doesn't really move the needle.

[Jesus_H_Macy]

Ayton hater symptom.


Ayton has scored 20 plus many games and Suns won comfortably. Don't make me pull out the basketball reference game logs as it would shut you down immediately.

27 points is not much considering Suns were shooting awful from 3pt and Ayton was scoring at near 70% downlow.


What YOU should be focusing on is the the Suns win record when they shoot under 35% from 3pt line. Now if you were a logical guy you would see a blatant pattern that jumps up.

Monty is too reliant on good 3pt shooting... and now mid range. Monty doesn't rely on free throw advantage or points in the paint... hence he likes his centers only catching lobs or sparingly shooting 15 footers with Ayton.... those plays are basically 3 to 4 times a game tops evem though Ayton shoots around 50%.

Go look at the W/L record when Ayton scores 20+ compared to when he scores less than 20. 40-56 is the suns record when Ayton scores 20+ points. The suns overall record with DA 160-135.... you do the math. hater.

We're again trading DA 2's for 3's on the other end

There is definitely some truth to this, especially with the lack of FTs Ayton typically draws (his biggest weakness in my opinion, and the reason he isn't more aggressive going to the rim - he doesn't know the art of getting fouled, so he's worried about losing the ball or missing his shot if he's aggressive which is too often what happens when he is).

But what's better, trading DA 2's for 3's on the other end, or trading 0's for 3's when we go on a clank spree? Won't speak for others but I just get frustrated seeing a lack of balance. Makes sense for the Dubs to just run around the perimeter hunting 3s because they're unreal shooting, but us however.... Too many plays of rock pounding around the perimeter with dudes standing around and no apparent plan just to burn 20s of shot clock for a mediocre/bad jump shot (that Book will often make regardless, but that doesn't make it a good offense).

Different with KD out there, but going to be a while of watching this ugly ball before KD comes back. Personnel doesn't help (who wants Craig doing anything but cutting and taking corner 3s? - not I) but it just looks flat out ugly sometimes. I accept the possibility that's just because I don't have a good grasp of NBA offenses, but our O looks so gross some of the time that I really don't think that's necessary to be able to tell. Our offense is way more 5.0 than 0.5

[sunsfan1o1]

I thought Craig was better defensively than Warren too. But then I watch him closely and he’s not really anything special. He’s no lockdown that’s for sure.
So I think for 20 min a game TJ can give the same amount of effort on D and much better offense than Craig.
Honestly, Craig has no business playing over TJ. I wonder if there’s any other coach in this league who would play Craig over TJ.

How many players are truly lockdown defenders in the league besides Butler, Smart, Dray and few others. That word gets overused too much but it’s difficult to be a “ lockdown” defender in a league where offense is more favored then defense.

And who has ever called Craig a lockdown defender?

Monty Williams

[garrick]

How many players are truly lockdown defenders in the league besides Butler, Smart, Dray and few others. That word gets overused too much but it’s difficult to be a “ lockdown” defender in a league where offense is more favored then defense.

And who has ever called Craig a lockdown defender?

Monty Williams

A few players have said Craig was the toughest matchup for them but probably based on Craig a few seasons ago but he's become a bit slower which is only natural given his age.

I remember he had a block on Booker on a last minute shot when he was still in Denver.

[TeamTragic]

Anyone that starts Torrey Craig should be fired immediately.

This is a billion dollar franchise. Do **** better.

[bwgood77]

Ever notice when Ayton scores a lot we lose?

Ayton hater symptom.


Ayton has scored 20 plus many games and Suns won comfortably. Don't make me pull out the basketball reference game logs as it would shut you down immediately.

27 points is not much considering Suns were shooting awful from 3pt and Ayton was scoring at near 70% downlow.


What YOU should be focusing on is the the Suns win record when they shoot under 35% from 3pt line. Now if you were a logical guy you would see a blatant pattern that jumps up.

Monty is too reliant on good 3pt shooting... and now mid range. Monty doesn't rely on free throw advantage or points in the paint... hence he likes his centers only catching lobs or sparingly shooting 15 footers with Ayton.... those plays are basically 3 to 4 times a game tops evem though Ayton shoots around 50%.

Go look at the W/L record when Ayton scores 20+ compared to when he scores less than 20. 40-56 is the suns record when Ayton scores 20+ points. The suns overall record with DA 160-135.... you do the math. hater.

Go look at the W/L record when Booker scores 20+ points. These exercises are dumb, because when Ayton or Book are the main guys with lesser players around them, the team will inevitably be worse.

[garrick]

Ayton hater symptom.


Ayton has scored 20 plus many games and Suns won comfortably. Don't make me pull out the basketball reference game logs as it would shut you down immediately.

27 points is not much considering Suns were shooting awful from 3pt and Ayton was scoring at near 70% downlow.


What YOU should be focusing on is the the Suns win record when they shoot under 35% from 3pt line. Now if you were a logical guy you would see a blatant pattern that jumps up.

Monty is too reliant on good 3pt shooting... and now mid range. Monty doesn't rely on free throw advantage or points in the paint... hence he likes his centers only catching lobs or sparingly shooting 15 footers with Ayton.... those plays are basically 3 to 4 times a game tops evem though Ayton shoots around 50%.

Go look at the W/L record when Ayton scores 20+ compared to when he scores less than 20. 40-56 is the suns record when Ayton scores 20+ points. The suns overall record with DA 160-135.... you do the math. hater.

Go look at the W/L record when Booker scores 20+ points. These exercises are dumb, because when Ayton or Book are the main guys with lesser players around them, the team will inevitably be worse.

Yeah this is pretty silly, if he doesn't score enough people hate on him and if he scores a lot people hate on him because it doesn't produce results.

It would not have been as close a game without DA's 20+ points last night, we again went away from DA and felt like Book tried to do a little too much but I think it's really the lack of anyone else aside from Book and DA producing much on offense.

CP3 did pick up his scoring a bit but having zero offensive input from your bench and one of your starters is less than ideal.

[lilfishi22]

How many players are truly lockdown defenders in the league besides Butler, Smart, Dray and few others. That word gets overused too much but it’s difficult to be a “ lockdown” defender in a league where offense is more favored then defense.

And who has ever called Craig a lockdown defender?

Monty Williams

I'll need to see that quote

[lilfishi22]

Anyone that starts Torrey Craig should be fired immediately.

This is a billion dollar franchise. Do **** better.

Who do you start instead?