Game 68: Phoenix Suns (37-30) @ Golden State Warriors (35-33) l Monday l 7:00pm l ESPN

[bwgood77]

Go look at the W/L record when Ayton scores 20+ compared to when he scores less than 20. 40-56 is the suns record when Ayton scores 20+ points. The suns overall record with DA 160-135.... you do the math. hater.

Go look at the W/L record when Booker scores 20+ points. These exercises are dumb, because when Ayton or Book are the main guys with lesser players around them, the team will inevitably be worse.

Yeah this is pretty silly, if he doesn't score enough people hate on him and if he scores a lot people hate on him because it doesn't produce results.

It would not have been as close a game without DA's 20+ points last night, we again went away from DA and felt like Book tried to do a little too much but I think it's really the lack of anyone else aside from Book and DA producing much on offense.

CP3 did pick up his scoring a bit but having zero offensive input from your bench and one of your starters is less than ideal.

Yeah, DA has 27/12 on over 68% shooting while Paul, Craig and Okogie are like 9/26 and Paul, Craig and Booker are 0-7 from 3 but you only hear about Ayton is the reason we lost. It really doesn't matter what he does or how well he plays at this point, when conversing here so it's pretty pointless.

[lilfishi22]

Go look at the W/L record when Ayton scores 20+ compared to when he scores less than 20. 40-56 is the suns record when Ayton scores 20+ points. The suns overall record with DA 160-135.... you do the math. hater.

We're again trading DA 2's for 3's on the other end

There is definitely some truth to this, especially with the lack of FTs Ayton typically draws (his biggest weakness in my opinion, and the reason he isn't more aggressive going to the rim - he doesn't know the art of getting fouled, so he's worried about losing the ball or missing his shot if he's aggressive which is too often what happens when he is).

But what's better, trading DA 2's for 3's on the other end, or trading 0's for 3's when we go on a clank spree? Won't speak for others but I just get frustrated seeing a lack of balance. Makes sense for the Dubs to just run around the perimeter hunting 3s because they're unreal shooting, but us however.... Too many plays of rock pounding around the perimeter with dudes standing around and no apparent plan just to burn 20s of shot clock for a mediocre/bad jump shot (that Book will often make regardless, but that doesn't make it a good offense).

Different with KD out there, but going to be a while of watching this ugly ball before KD comes back. Personnel doesn't help (who wants Craig doing anything but cutting and taking corner 3s? - not I) but it just looks flat out ugly sometimes. I accept the possibility that's just because I don't have a good grasp of NBA offenses, but our O looks so gross some of the time that I really don't think that's necessary to be able to tell. Our offense is way more 5.0 than 0.5

My point isn't to suggest we go to DA less as that equals more W's but just that we just don't know what we're getting from DA game to game. Yes, for this particular game it wouldn't have gotten close without his contribution but I think we're kind of at the point where he's just inconsistent in his effort and impact, I almost don't care to expect him to do more because he's he's just going to give us what he's going to give us and to expect certain levels of production from him game to game is opening ourselves up for disappointment.

[Jesus_H_Macy]

We're again trading DA 2's for 3's on the other end

There is definitely some truth to this, especially with the lack of FTs Ayton typically draws (his biggest weakness in my opinion, and the reason he isn't more aggressive going to the rim - he doesn't know the art of getting fouled, so he's worried about losing the ball or missing his shot if he's aggressive which is too often what happens when he is).

But what's better, trading DA 2's for 3's on the other end, or trading 0's for 3's when we go on a clank spree? Won't speak for others but I just get frustrated seeing a lack of balance. Makes sense for the Dubs to just run around the perimeter hunting 3s because they're unreal shooting, but us however.... Too many plays of rock pounding around the perimeter with dudes standing around and no apparent plan just to burn 20s of shot clock for a mediocre/bad jump shot (that Book will often make regardless, but that doesn't make it a good offense).

Different with KD out there, but going to be a while of watching this ugly ball before KD comes back. Personnel doesn't help (who wants Craig doing anything but cutting and taking corner 3s? - not I) but it just looks flat out ugly sometimes. I accept the possibility that's just because I don't have a good grasp of NBA offenses, but our O looks so gross some of the time that I really don't think that's necessary to be able to tell. Our offense is way more 5.0 than 0.5

My point isn't to suggest we go to DA less as that equals more W's but just that we just don't know what we're getting from DA game to game. Yes, for this particular game it wouldn't have gotten close without his contribution but I think we're kind of at the point where he's just inconsistent in his effort and impact, I almost don't care to expect him to do more because he's he's just going to give us what he's going to give us and to expect certain levels of production from him game to game is opening ourselves up for disappointment.

Ya that was more of a rhetorical question than directed at you, you had just happened to call that out. Sometimes I wish we would just force feed Ayton regardless of what happens or what kind of game he’s having just so it can be put to rest whether or not it benefits us and he can handle it. For better or for worse. I’m on the Ayton fan side of the ledger but the inconsistency is real and frustrating. More than anything to do with him on O what is most frustrating is the slip he’s had on D since ‘20-‘21. Having that version of Ayton defense on this team would make a bigger difference than if he was more consistent on O

[lilfishi22]

There is definitely some truth to this, especially with the lack of FTs Ayton typically draws (his biggest weakness in my opinion, and the reason he isn't more aggressive going to the rim - he doesn't know the art of getting fouled, so he's worried about losing the ball or missing his shot if he's aggressive which is too often what happens when he is).

But what's better, trading DA 2's for 3's on the other end, or trading 0's for 3's when we go on a clank spree? Won't speak for others but I just get frustrated seeing a lack of balance. Makes sense for the Dubs to just run around the perimeter hunting 3s because they're unreal shooting, but us however.... Too many plays of rock pounding around the perimeter with dudes standing around and no apparent plan just to burn 20s of shot clock for a mediocre/bad jump shot (that Book will often make regardless, but that doesn't make it a good offense).

Different with KD out there, but going to be a while of watching this ugly ball before KD comes back. Personnel doesn't help (who wants Craig doing anything but cutting and taking corner 3s? - not I) but it just looks flat out ugly sometimes. I accept the possibility that's just because I don't have a good grasp of NBA offenses, but our O looks so gross some of the time that I really don't think that's necessary to be able to tell. Our offense is way more 5.0 than 0.5

My point isn't to suggest we go to DA less as that equals more W's but just that we just don't know what we're getting from DA game to game. Yes, for this particular game it wouldn't have gotten close without his contribution but I think we're kind of at the point where he's just inconsistent in his effort and impact, I almost don't care to expect him to do more because he's he's just going to give us what he's going to give us and to expect certain levels of production from him game to game is opening ourselves up for disappointment.

Ya that was more of a rhetorical question than directed at you, you had just happened to call that out. Sometimes I wish we would just force feed Ayton regardless of what happens or what kind of game he’s having just so it can be put to rest whether or not it benefits us and he can handle it. For better or for worse. I’m on the Ayton fan side of the ledger but the inconsistency is real and frustrating. More than anything to do with him on O what is most frustrating is the slip he’s had on D since ‘20-‘21. Having that version of Ayton defense on this team would make a bigger difference than if he was more consistent on O

I look at DA the same as any other streaky rhythm shooter. If you force feed a guy like Ross or Okogie or someone streaky and ask expect them to give you good production, they'll give it to you because of the volume/opportunity but that efficiency just won't be there. But if he's in rhythm and he's getting himself open for 3's, he's going to hit them.

The defensive regression is surprising. It could certainly be just not having a versatile defender like Crowder who was a massive voice on defence.

[sunsbum]

Ayton hater symptom.


Ayton has scored 20 plus many games and Suns won comfortably. Don't make me pull out the basketball reference game logs as it would shut you down immediately.

27 points is not much considering Suns were shooting awful from 3pt and Ayton was scoring at near 70% downlow.


What YOU should be focusing on is the the Suns win record when they shoot under 35% from 3pt line. Now if you were a logical guy you would see a blatant pattern that jumps up.

Monty is too reliant on good 3pt shooting... and now mid range. Monty doesn't rely on free throw advantage or points in the paint... hence he likes his centers only catching lobs or sparingly shooting 15 footers with Ayton.... those plays are basically 3 to 4 times a game tops evem though Ayton shoots around 50%.

Go look at the W/L record when Ayton scores 20+ compared to when he scores less than 20. 40-56 is the suns record when Ayton scores 20+ points. The suns overall record with DA 160-135.... you do the math. hater.

Go look at the W/L record when Booker scores 20+ points. These exercises are dumb, because when Ayton or Book are the main guys with lesser players around them, the team will inevitably be worse.

The suns are 12-4 when book scores 30+ ppg this season, while 12-14 when DA "gets fed" and goes for 20 or more. I don't need stats to tell me Book positively impacts the game, he passes the eye test with flying colors. DA is just a fart in the wind. Suns are 8-1 this season w/o DA, 11-16 w/o booker. LAST YEAR 18-6 w/o DA, 8-6 w/o booker. So the past two season the suns were a whopping 26-7 without Ayton. At this point I wonder if most of you simp for Ayton just for the sake of not being wrong. BBbbbbbut ooon another team. Bro this guy couldnt step up with 17 of our starters out and the lineup consisted of all DeAndre Ayton's. could you imagine 5 DA's on the court? It would be a perpetual ball fumbling GIF

[kennydorglas]

Ever notice when Ayton scores a lot we lose?

Ayton hater symptom.


Ayton has scored 20 plus many games and Suns won comfortably. Don't make me pull out the basketball reference game logs as it would shut you down immediately.

27 points is not much considering Suns were shooting awful from 3pt and Ayton was scoring at near 70% downlow.


What YOU should be focusing on is the the Suns win record when they shoot under 35% from 3pt line. Now if you were a logical guy you would see a blatant pattern that jumps up.

Monty is too reliant on good 3pt shooting... and now mid range. Monty doesn't rely on free throw advantage or points in the paint... hence he likes his centers only catching lobs or sparingly shooting 15 footers with Ayton.... those plays are basically 3 to 4 times a game tops evem though Ayton shoots around 50%.

Go look at the W/L record when Ayton scores 20+ compared to when he scores less than 20. 40-56 is the suns record when Ayton scores 20+ points. The suns overall record with DA 160-135.... you do the math. hater.

This is the definition of tank commander