Suns complain about Giannis FT attempts after hacking him all night. Footage included.

[SkyBill40]

It's mind bending that anyone can think Giannis - a physical freak who plays with a relenting urge to get to the rim - and the Suns shooting mid range jump shots should get an equal amount of free throws.

The Suns do go to the basket quite a bit and still don't get calls. THAT is the problem and the reason why Williams is upset. Just admit to not watching the Suns play often and get your pass, dude. Seriously.

Sent from my [Samsung Z4 Fold] using RealGM mobile app

[ReddoverKobe]

It's mind bending that anyone can think Giannis - a physical freak who plays with a relenting urge to get to the rim - and the Suns shooting mid range jump shots should get an equal amount of free throws.

The Suns do go to the basket quite a bit and still don't get calls. THAT is the problem and the reason why Williams is upset. Just admit to not watching the Suns play often and get your pass, dude. Seriously.

Sent from my [Samsung Z4 Fold] using RealGM mobile app

There are these things called shot charts. They are new and exciting, before you come in here with your nonsense check them out.

Take the suns fan crying about Booker. He took 27 shots last night. I believe 2 were in the restricted area. But sure, he should just get ft's because I guess. We'll ignore the Bucks game plan of having lopez lay off Ayton and protecting the paint, giving up mid range jumpers, will ignore who was guarding Booker for most of the game and lets ignore what shots he ended up taking. Ya'll are wild

[Pachinko_]

Giannis is an aggressive player and that's great; however, he and others who use the tactic of size to drop a shoulder and plow through a defender should be called for what it is but isn't: An offensive foul.

No, sorry, that is not enough to make it an offensive foul.

First the defender needs to beat the dribbler to the spot, occupy the spot with a legal guarding positioning of his body, and only then it's an offensive foul. Because otherwise it would be too easy to just jump and throw yourself in front of any person dribbling and ooops, you ploughed into me, offensive foul! But that's not basketball, well not any kind of basketball that people would want to watch anyway.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

Don't foul him, or get in the gym so you're built similar to him and can put up more resistance. Either way, the whining just means they have no answer for him, which is the same for the other 29 teams.

Lol, you realize that if guys could do that, they would do that right? It's not a thing you can just do. There's a reason they call him the Freak.

Hit the weights, close the gap, either way the complaining about someone that is physically gifted and put in the work is getting old.

[old skool]

Complaining about officiating is lame. Especially immediately after your team loses.

Antetokounmpo creates contact almost every time he drives to the basket. He gets hit almost every time he drives as well. The refs are in an impossible situation trying in a split second to decide who gets the whistle. So they make split second errors from time to time, both helping and hurting Antetokounmpo. There are tons of examples both ways. And if you need to see it in slow motion to judge for yourself, think about how absurd it is to complain that it was called differently in real time.

The NBA reviews every foul and every non-call in every game, every play. If the NBA was finding that refs were missing Antetokounmpo fouls, the refs would correct that over time. Fans who are convinced that somehow the heavily supervised NBA officiating system continually makes mistakes with a given player are just showing their lack of NBA knowledge.

[SkyBill40]

Giannis is an aggressive player and that's great; however, he and others who use the tactic of size to drop a shoulder and plow through a defender should be called for what it is but isn't: An offensive foul.

No, sorry, that is not enough to make it an offensive foul.

First the defender needs to beat the dribbler to the spot, occupy the spot with a legal guarding positioning of his body, and only then it's an offensive foul. Because otherwise it would be too easy to just jump and throw yourself in front of any person dribbling and ooops, you ploughed into me, offensive foul! But that's not basketball, well not any kind of basketball that people would want to watch anyway.

I wasn't getting super technical about it and I'm aware of the rule as writ; however, there are many instances where he's done precisely as I said, defender set or not, and there's been no call. That's a problem with a lack of balanced officiating.

Officiating in general, so long as it continues to be handled by humans, will always be subjective and judgmental. There's a lot of gray area and leeway provided which leads to situations precisely like this.

Sent from my [Samsung Z4 Fold] using RealGM mobile app

[Pachinko_]

I wasn't getting super technical about it and I'm aware of the rule as writ; however, there are many instances where he's done precisely as I said, defender set or not, and there's been no call. That's a problem with a lack of balanced officiating.

Officiating in general, so long as it continues to be handled by humans, will always be subjective and judgmental. There's a lot of gray area and leeway provided which leads to situations precisely like this.

Sent from my [Samsung Z4 Fold] using RealGM mobile app

I agree with you except for one word you used: "balanced"
I would say "consistent" instead because "balanced" can be taken as if there is an intentional effort by the NBA to favour the Bucks, and for the life of me I can't think of any reason why the NBA would do that for the smallest market team that only a few thousand people in MKE and a few thousand in Greece watch. It makes no sense.

[SkyBill40]

It's mind bending that anyone can think Giannis - a physical freak who plays with a relenting urge to get to the rim - and the Suns shooting mid range jump shots should get an equal amount of free throws.

The Suns do go to the basket quite a bit and still don't get calls. THAT is the problem and the reason why Williams is upset. Just admit to not watching the Suns play often and get your pass, dude. Seriously.

Sent from my [Samsung Z4 Fold] using RealGM mobile app

There are these things called shot charts. They are new and exciting, before you come in here with your nonsense check them out.

Take the suns fan crying about Booker. He took 27 shots last night. I believe 2 were in the restricted area. But sure, he should just get ft's because I guess. We'll ignore the Bucks game plan of having lopez lay off Ayton and protecting the paint, giving up mid range jumpers, will ignore who was guarding Booker for most of the game and lets ignore what shots he ended up taking. Ya'll are wild

Your sarcasm doesn't help your case whatsoever, but you go on ahead if that gives you some warm and cozy vibe. Makes no real difference to me.

If you're denoting the restricted area, specifically the dotted under the hoop, sure, he maybe only took two shots; however, Booker does drive to the basket pretty regularly and strongly but rarely does he get calls for it when others more likely would. Just go ahead and be clear you don't watch the Suns play outside of when it's against your team. It's cool. I'll give you a pass for it. And to the point of Booker getting free throws just because is, well, stupid. That's not the gripe here at all.

The Bucks laying off Ayton and letting him shoot us at their peril seeing he's a pretty decent shooter inside 15 feet. It worked for them last night but isn't guaranteed to work every time. Trapping Booker with a double is a better plan, but you have to pick your poison and hope it doesn't kill you for it.

Sent from my [Samsung Z4 Fold] using RealGM mobile app

[ReddoverKobe]

The Suns do go to the basket quite a bit and still don't get calls. THAT is the problem and the reason why Williams is upset. Just admit to not watching the Suns play often and get your pass, dude. Seriously.

Sent from my [Samsung Z4 Fold] using RealGM mobile app

There are these things called shot charts. They are new and exciting, before you come in here with your nonsense check them out.

Take the suns fan crying about Booker. He took 27 shots last night. I believe 2 were in the restricted area. But sure, he should just get ft's because I guess. We'll ignore the Bucks game plan of having lopez lay off Ayton and protecting the paint, giving up mid range jumpers, will ignore who was guarding Booker for most of the game and lets ignore what shots he ended up taking. Ya'll are wild

Your sarcasm doesn't help your case whatsoever, but you go on ahead if that gives you some warm and cozy vibe. Makes no real difference to me.

If you're denoting the restricted area, specifically the dotted under the hoop, sure, he maybe only took two shots; however, Booker does drive to the basket pretty regularly and strongly but rarely does he get calls for it when others more likely would. Just go ahead and be clear you don't watch the Suns play outside of when it's against your team. It's cool. I'll give you a pass for it. And to the point of Booker getting free throws just because is, well, stupid. That's not the gripe here at all.

The Bucks laying off Ayton and letting him shoot us at their peril seeing he's a pretty decent shooter inside 15 feet. It worked for them last night but isn't guaranteed to work every time. Trapping Booker with a double is a better plan, but you have to pick your poison and hope it doesn't kill you for it.

Sent from my [Samsung Z4 Fold] using RealGM mobile app

What do other games have to do with last night?

[SkyBill40]

I wasn't getting super technical about it and I'm aware of the rule as writ; however, there are many instances where he's done precisely as I said, defender set or not, and there's been no call. That's a problem with a lack of balanced officiating.

Officiating in general, so long as it continues to be handled by humans, will always be subjective and judgmental. There's a lot of gray area and leeway provided which leads to situations precisely like this.

Sent from my [Samsung Z4 Fold] using RealGM mobile app

I agree with you except for one word you used: "balanced"
I would say "consistent" instead because "balanced" can be taken as if there is an intentional effort by the NBA to favour the Bucks, and for the life of me I can't think of any reason why the NBA would do that for the smallest market team that only a few thousand people in MKE and a few thousand in Greece watch. It makes no sense.

I'll agree with your assertion of word choice as "consistent" is what I was alluding to when I mentioned " balanced."

Giannis may play on one of the smallest market teams, but he's one of the league's cornerstone players now and therefore he is given what seems to be a lot more weight and protection by the officials than what should be. That lack of consistency is why the league has lost fans over time and why retaining (and gaining new) fans is so important. If the officials really called the games as the rulebook stipulates, I don't think it would be as remotely entertaining as it is now.

Sent from my [Samsung Z4 Fold] using RealGM mobile app

[Pachinko_]

Your sarcasm doesn't help your case whatsoever, but you go on ahead if that gives you some warm and cozy vibe. Makes no real difference to me.

I'd like to take a moment here to congratulate you for being able switch from respond in a civilised manner to people who are making a civilised argument while also responding appropriately to people attacking you. It's fkn hard, I'm not joking, well done

[SkyBill40]

There are these things called shot charts. They are new and exciting, before you come in here with your nonsense check them out.

Take the suns fan crying about Booker. He took 27 shots last night. I believe 2 were in the restricted area. But sure, he should just get ft's because I guess. We'll ignore the Bucks game plan of having lopez lay off Ayton and protecting the paint, giving up mid range jumpers, will ignore who was guarding Booker for most of the game and lets ignore what shots he ended up taking. Ya'll are wild

Your sarcasm doesn't help your case whatsoever, but you go on ahead if that gives you some warm and cozy vibe. Makes no real difference to me.

If you're denoting the restricted area, specifically the dotted under the hoop, sure, he maybe only took two shots; however, Booker does drive to the basket pretty regularly and strongly but rarely does he get calls for it when others more likely would. Just go ahead and be clear you don't watch the Suns play outside of when it's against your team. It's cool. I'll give you a pass for it. And to the point of Booker getting free throws just because is, well, stupid. That's not the gripe here at all.

The Bucks laying off Ayton and letting him shoot us at their peril seeing he's a pretty decent shooter inside 15 feet. It worked for them last night but isn't guaranteed to work every time. Trapping Booker with a double is a better plan, but you have to pick your poison and hope it doesn't kill you for it.

Sent from my [Samsung Z4 Fold] using RealGM mobile app

What do other games have to do with last night?

Because Williams is referencing a longstanding pattern and not just focusing on a singular occurrence. Last night is just the trigger for him to speak out.

Sent from my [Samsung Z4 Fold] using RealGM mobile app

[SkyBill40]

Your sarcasm doesn't help your case whatsoever, but you go on ahead if that gives you some warm and cozy vibe. Makes no real difference to me.

I'd like to take a moment here to congratulate you for being able switch from respond in a civilised manner to people who are making a civilised argument while also responding appropriately to people attacking you. It's fkn hard, I'm not joking, well done

Uh... thanks? LOL.

I'm honestly too old to get that worked up about stuff, especially someone who I don't personally know or consider high value in their specific opinion. When I was younger... perhaps... I wouldn't have been as measured.

Sent from my [Samsung Z4 Fold] using RealGM mobile app

[CIN-C-STAR]

The Suns dont have anyone that even comes close to matching up with Giannis physically, and Monty has never had a good game plan for guarding him going all the way back to the Finals imo.
Ayton is too slow, and everyone else is too small and weak. If you dont have a good TEAM game plan for Giannis, or one of the handful of guys in the league with a chance of matching up with him, then you should absolutely expect to get wrecked by him just like the Suns did -- he's the best player in the league after all.
So to me this is just sour grapes.

And for those complaining that Giannis initiates the contact and still gets the call and that's unfair -- yeah no crap. That's the whole NBA, has been for some time now, and your favorite player does it too.
It's just more egregious when it's Giannis because he's the biggest, fastest, strongest, most agile guy in the league, which allows him to really take advantage of the idiotic way the league calls fouls in order to boost scoring (because fans love watching guys shoot FTs, apparently, or at least the league office thinks so).
Plenty of us have said it's stupid for years, but nothing will change because casuals apparently dig it and most invested fans only seem to selectively care about this when it hurts their team.
Frankly, FIBA and even college are refereed in a much better way. They still have this concept called "incidental contact," which the NBA has basically done away with unless you're a big guy in the post, and they don't let the offensive players throw themselves into the defender and call it a block because the defender wasn't completely set -- because those leagues have common sense and understand that if the defenders are always stationary to avoid blocking calls, it's impossible to guard someone who is moving.
So don't hate the player, hate the game. NBA reffing is stupid but it's not a Giannis problem. Guys used to work on moves to create separation to get their shot off. Now guys all over the league work with trainers on creating contact with defenders, not on creating space, so they can be gifted cheap FTs. It's silly really but it won't change unless they change the reffing leaguewide (which stars like Booker would hate and complain about endlessly because it would make passing and teamwork more valuable instead of the high usage iso game we see so much of now).

[Pachinko_]

If the officials really called the games as the rulebook stipulates, I don't think it would be as remotely entertaining as it is now.

How do you mean? I've thought about this a little bit, and I've concluded that I don't actually mind if the NBA has some quirks like people travelling and palming, 5 second violations never called, people just holding the ball without dribbling for 20 seconds at the end of games etc. But I really need it to be consistent and predictable otherwise it's just a confusing cluster.

[SkyBill40]

If the officials really called the games as the rulebook stipulates, I don't think it would be as remotely entertaining as it is now.

How do you mean? I've thought about this a little bit, and I've concluded that I don't actually mind if the NBA has some quirks like people travelling and palming, 5 second violations never called, people just holding the ball without dribbling for 20 seconds at the end of games etc. But I really need it to be consistent and predictable otherwise it's just a confusing cluster.

I mean as black or white as the rules state. But the rulebook leaves for a lot of interpretation and ambiguity, leading to the many judgment calls we see on the nightly. If they called the game straight up, and per the defined rules, I think the game would play very, very, differently.

Then again, what do I know? I'm just a fan watching the game and hoping for the best outcome for my team while trying to remain objective and see the game as it should be played. I am a fan of the game itself, but I am also a fan of my team and that subjectivity sometimes clouds the greater picture.

Truth be told, I simply cannot stand some of the violations which are given a free pass every single game by players who have more name recognition than others: palming/carrying, traveling, double dribbles, etc. We both know this kind of nonsense happens every single game, but what is the real solution? Call everything and interrupt the flow of the game, or let those rare occurrences happen without calls and keep the excitement going? I'd rather the game be called straight and consistently but don't see how it ever can be.


Sent from my [Samsung Z4 Fold] using RealGM mobile app

[skones]

It's mind bending that anyone can think Giannis - a physical freak who plays with a relenting urge to get to the rim - and the Suns shooting mid range jump shots should get an equal amount of free throws.

The Suns do go to the basket quite a bit and still don't get calls. THAT is the problem and the reason why Williams is upset. Just admit to not watching the Suns play often and get your pass, dude. Seriously.

Sent from my [Samsung Z4 Fold] using RealGM mobile app

Booker has attempted 153 shots in the restricted area this season. Giannis himself has taken 599. Giannis has just over 2x the FTA per context Booker does. Tell me again about that "drive" statistic that removes a lot of context.

[Pachinko_]

Truth be told, I simply cannot stand some of the violations which are given a free pass every single game by players who have more name recognition than others: palming/carrying, traveling, double dribbles, etc. We both know this kind of nonsense happens every single game, but what is the real solution? Call everything and interrupt the flow of the game, or let those rare occurrences happen without calls and keep the excitement going? I'd rather the game be called straight and consistently but don't see how it ever can be.

Same, and I'm a big Giannis fan, he's pretty much the only reason I started watching NBA again 10 years ago.
I really really wish they called everything that he does, it annoys the crap out of me when he palms the ball, or takes ages to shoot a FT, or the other thing he does which is never called: he dribbles the ball once or twice to kinda "gather it" (whatever the **** that means), then holds it for a couple of seconds to make up his mind what to do next, and then he starts dribbling again! And the refs never call it which is always a WTF moment for me, again and again for 10 years straight LOL
And then a random ref calls it every once in a while, Giannis pretends to be surprised, and everybody pretends this was the right call especially today because reasons LOL

And the most frustrating thing is that when he plays with the NT in FIBA he does none of that, ever. So I know he can absolutely play properly and still be absolutely devastating, but in the NBA he really has no option but to abuse the rules, because everybody else does and if he didn't it would leave him at a disadvantage for no reason whatsoever. So frustrating.

[old skool]

I wasn't getting super technical about it and I'm aware of the rule as writ; however, there are many instances where he's done precisely as I said, defender set or not, and there's been no call. That's a problem with a lack of balanced officiating.

Officiating in general, so long as it continues to be handled by humans, will always be subjective and judgmental. There's a lot of gray area and leeway provided which leads to situations precisely like this.

Sent from my [Samsung Z4 Fold] using RealGM mobile app

The evaluation and grading system for referees is robust, comprehensive and brutally unforgiving. It is not perfect. It feels bad when your team is on the short end of the stick. Complaining about it is lame and shows a complete lack of understanding of the NBA.

Good and bad calls are addressed after every game. After every game every official grades the other officials on the floor that game. Every call/non-call is evaluated and graded by the league office. NBA officials who consistently miss more calls outside of the range of human error find themselves out of the NBA. Those officials are reprimanded, fined and fired. The refs who keep their job do the best job of calling games. Period. There is no stable of 100 G-League refs who could come in and call games perfectly.

Williams knows the situation. He is just frustrated at his team's inability to deal with it.

[SkyBill40]

It's mind bending that anyone can think Giannis - a physical freak who plays with a relenting urge to get to the rim - and the Suns shooting mid range jump shots should get an equal amount of free throws.

The Suns do go to the basket quite a bit and still don't get calls. THAT is the problem and the reason why Williams is upset. Just admit to not watching the Suns play often and get your pass, dude. Seriously.

Sent from my [Samsung Z4 Fold] using RealGM mobile app

Booker has attempted 153 shots in the restricted area this season. Giannis himself has taken 599. Giannis has just over 2x the FTA per context Booker does. Tell me again about that "drive" statistic that removes a lot of context.

Giannis lives in the paint and near the basket as that's where he's most effective. Booker is a shooter and thrives outside of the restricted since he's significantly smaller by comparison. Two different styles for two different players. And while Giannis purposely initiates contact as a means of drawing fouls, acting as though Booker doesn't draw contact driving to the basket is pretty funny. So, again, how often have you watched PHX play?

Sent from my [Samsung Z4 Fold] using RealGM mobile app