Official Scottie Barnes Thread - Part 5

[brownbobcat]

Neither do Franz and Paolo. Hence why their team sucks.

They are the focal points of their team's offence by virtue of there being no one better on their rebuilding team. Not because they actually have the skills to be good focal points.

Don't conflate their team sucking with their skillsets. Every player has their flaws, but anyone who's watched Banchero can tell he's easily showing more promise as an unguardable scorer. Has similar shooting issues, but much more fluid and gets all the way to the rim with ease.

Your assessment isn't based on results. He's sucked this season, as has Scottie. Describing a player as fluid or unguardable means nothing. Those are subjective observations.

I don't see the point in being contrarian for no reason. If you want some stats, go look at Banchero's FTA or FTR or ISO PPP. It's blatantly obvious that his first step and mobility at his size are much better than Barnes, who's a little physically awkward. If you can't even accept such a cursory observation, there's no point continuing the discussion.

For the record, "sucked" is also a subjective observation and one that's flat out wrong. Neither sucks, they're both good players - just not stars yet.

[C-R-E-A-M-]

https://www.raptorsrepublic.com/2023/03/13/scottie-barnes-is-one-of-the-worlds-best-passers/

[dTox]

This may not end well, since live audience are present

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[OakleyDokely]

https://www.raptorsrepublic.com/2023/03/13/scottie-barnes-is-one-of-the-worlds-best-passers/

very good post.

Barnes has a great ratio on his passing turnovers this season. Of his 74 passing turnovers, 32 were of the high-risk variety. That means close to half of his passing turnovers were just inches away from being assists. And while it would be silly to just assume that those become assists — they are turnovers, after all — at least the process behind these decisions is the same process that drives scoring. If you’re going to turn the ball over, you might as well be trying to reach a high outcome on the possession. Be dangerous.

Even with Barnes being dangerous, he still takes great care of the ball. He’s easily clearing the benchmark of the 2-to-1 assist to turnover ratio (4.8 to 2), and some of those could just as well be assists instead. This is a great indicator of his passing talent, vision, and process.

[Tha Cynic]

https://www.raptorsrepublic.com/2023/03/13/scottie-barnes-is-one-of-the-worlds-best-passers/

Was just about to post this. The "advantage assists" vs "no advantage" assists are very apparent when you watch Barnes pass vs others who may get assists but are clearly just being a beneficiary of the Raptors one pass make tough shot offense.

Also, the note about how half of those turnovers are due to high risk passes that are inches from being assists is why his combination of assist to turnover ratio and advantage passing is better than someone who simply has great assist to over ratio.

Once Barnes' offense gets better, he's going to be an elite playmaker in this league.

[GoRapstheoriginal]

Solid game for Barnes tonight

[niQ]

Read on Twitter

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[ItsDanger]

Yet some want to trade him? LOL. Just wait until the deadweight is removed from the roster. They're in the way and limiting his style.

[DreamTeam09]

Yet some want to trade him? LOL. Just wait until the deadweight is removed from the roster. They're in the way and limiting his style.

At what point does he become good enough to where ther "deadweight" doesn't matter because they understand that he's the best? Like if we inserted Jaylen Brown on this team magically, do you not believe he would be the top of the pecking order? If Ja was on this team, do you think FVV would have the ball more than JA??

At what point does the crème rise to the top?

LBJ came in, and ricky davis and larry hughes basically said he should be assimilating to them n the team, and LBJ proceeded to put up 27 n 9 game one and never looked back.

It's more on Scotty finding his way in the league rather than him being fazed out or something

[ItsDanger]

Yet some want to trade him? LOL. Just wait until the deadweight is removed from the roster. They're in the way and limiting his style.

At what point does he become good enough to where ther "deadweight" doesn't matter because they understand that he's the best? Like if we inserted Jaylen Brown on this team magically, do you not believe he would be the top of the pecking order? If Ja was on this team, do you think FVV would have the ball more than JA??

At what point does the crème rise to the top?

LBJ came in, and ricky davis and larry hughes basically said he should be assimilating to them n the team, and LBJ proceeded to put up 27 n 9 game one and never looked back.

It's more on Scotty finding his way in the league rather than him being fazed out or something

Sometimes management likes to put people in situations for them to take control on their own. Don't know if that's Scottie's style do that. It would be different if he was a 3 level scorer. I think this is the wrong approach in this respect because Scottie's style is to get everyone involved.

[deck]

https://www.raptorsrepublic.com/2023/03/13/scottie-barnes-is-one-of-the-worlds-best-passers/

very good post.

Barnes has a great ratio on his passing turnovers this season. Of his 74 passing turnovers, 32 were of the high-risk variety. That means close to half of his passing turnovers were just inches away from being assists. And while it would be silly to just assume that those become assists — they are turnovers, after all — at least the process behind these decisions is the same process that drives scoring. If you’re going to turn the ball over, you might as well be trying to reach a high outcome on the possession. Be dangerous.

Even with Barnes being dangerous, he still takes great care of the ball. He’s easily clearing the benchmark of the 2-to-1 assist to turnover ratio (4.8 to 2), and some of those could just as well be assists instead. This is a great indicator of his passing talent, vision, and process.

From my eye test, some of those high risk passes also fail on the receiving end. Scottie makes the right read and makes the right (albeit high risk) pass, but the receiver isn't ready for it.

[srhcan]

Yet some want to trade him? LOL. Just wait until the deadweight is removed from the roster. They're in the way and limiting his style.

At what point does he become good enough to where ther "deadweight" doesn't matter because they understand that he's the best? Like if we inserted Jaylen Brown on this team magically, do you not believe he would be the top of the pecking order? If Ja was on this team, do you think FVV would have the ball more than JA??

At what point does the crème rise to the top?

LBJ came in, and ricky davis and larry hughes basically said he should be assimilating to them n the team, and LBJ proceeded to put up 27 n 9 game one and never looked back.

It's more on Scotty finding his way in the league rather than him being fazed out or something

Scottie already showed it in his 1st season but he did not get the same support from the coach to go to top of the pecking order. Watch Thunderstruck movie where when the kid Brian proved his arrival in a game then the previous best player try to put Brian down; at that time the coach step in and put Brian on the top of the pecking order. Nurse could not do it.

[Reeko]

Yet some want to trade him? LOL. Just wait until the deadweight is removed from the roster. They're in the way and limiting his style.

At what point does he become good enough to where ther "deadweight" doesn't matter because they understand that he's the best? Like if we inserted Jaylen Brown on this team magically, do you not believe he would be the top of the pecking order? If Ja was on this team, do you think FVV would have the ball more than JA??

At what point does the crème rise to the top?

LBJ came in, and ricky davis and larry hughes basically said he should be assimilating to them n the team, and LBJ proceeded to put up 27 n 9 game one and never looked back.

It's more on Scotty finding his way in the league rather than him being fazed out or something

I think that Pascal and Fred are so established that even a guy like Jaylen Brown would have to work his way into the offensive system. Neither one of those guys is just going to hand the ball over to Brown and say "Lead us".

As for Ricky Davis and Larry Hughes, what did they ever win? Pascal and Fred have won a championship as key cogs of the team, Pascal is All NBA and Fred is an All Star. Now, Scottie is not LeBron but establishing yourself as the best player is a lot easier around the likes of Larry Hughes and Ricky Davis. Also LeBron came in as the most hyped high school prospect since Kareem and got drafted to one of the worst teams in the league, you better believe that the coaching staff were going to prioritize him getting as many opportunities as possible. Rookie LeBron already had a USG% of 28.2.

There are times when Scottie is too passive, but let's not take this to mean that he's been given the keys to the team but just refused to drive it.

[WuTang_CMB]

Luckily we selected scottie

[Los_29]

Yet some want to trade him? LOL. Just wait until the deadweight is removed from the roster. They're in the way and limiting his style.

At what point does he become good enough to where ther "deadweight" doesn't matter because they understand that he's the best? Like if we inserted Jaylen Brown on this team magically, do you not believe he would be the top of the pecking order? If Ja was on this team, do you think FVV would have the ball more than JA??

At what point does the crème rise to the top?

LBJ came in, and ricky davis and larry hughes basically said he should be assimilating to them n the team, and LBJ proceeded to put up 27 n 9 game one and never looked back.

It's more on Scotty finding his way in the league rather than him being fazed out or something

I think that Pascal and Fred are so established that even a guy like Jaylen Brown would have to work his way into the offensive system. Neither one of those guys is just going to hand the ball over to Brown and say "Lead us".

As for Ricky Davis and Larry Hughes, what did they ever win? Pascal and Fred have won a championship as key cogs of the team, Pascal is All NBA and Fred is an All Star. Now, Scottie is not LeBron but establishing yourself as the best player is a lot easier around the likes of Larry Hughes and Ricky Davis. Also LeBron came in as the most hyped high school prospect since Kareem and got drafted to one of the worst teams in the league, you better believe that the coaching staff were going to prioritize him getting as many opportunities as possible. Rookie LeBron already had a USG% of 28.2.

There are times when Scottie is too passive, but let's not take this to mean that he's been given the keys to the team but just refused to drive it.

There is nothing to really suggest that they wouldn’t hand the keys to a better offensive player. I mean, as a duo they rank near the bottom in usage. There aren’t many, if any more balanced offensive teams in the league. And that’s not a good thing. The best teams in the league have a clear pecking order.

Dreamteam09 is correct, the crème always rises to the top. No one would look at this year and say Scottie needs to take on more of an offensive role. Teams aren’t even guarding him out on the perimeter and he struggles to beat his man off the dribble. He’s just simply nowhere near good enough at this point. Giving him the keys would do far more harm than good. He probably doesn’t even want that given how passive he’s looked when others are out.

[Basketball_Jones]

I'd have to agree that Scottie should have already established himself now if he was that good. There were quite a few games Fred sat and he put up a dud. He actually plays better with Fred out there. Maybe next season.

[Reeko]

At what point does he become good enough to where ther "deadweight" doesn't matter because they understand that he's the best? Like if we inserted Jaylen Brown on this team magically, do you not believe he would be the top of the pecking order? If Ja was on this team, do you think FVV would have the ball more than JA??

At what point does the crème rise to the top?

LBJ came in, and ricky davis and larry hughes basically said he should be assimilating to them n the team, and LBJ proceeded to put up 27 n 9 game one and never looked back.

It's more on Scotty finding his way in the league rather than him being fazed out or something

I think that Pascal and Fred are so established that even a guy like Jaylen Brown would have to work his way into the offensive system. Neither one of those guys is just going to hand the ball over to Brown and say "Lead us".

As for Ricky Davis and Larry Hughes, what did they ever win? Pascal and Fred have won a championship as key cogs of the team, Pascal is All NBA and Fred is an All Star. Now, Scottie is not LeBron but establishing yourself as the best player is a lot easier around the likes of Larry Hughes and Ricky Davis. Also LeBron came in as the most hyped high school prospect since Kareem and got drafted to one of the worst teams in the league, you better believe that the coaching staff were going to prioritize him getting as many opportunities as possible. Rookie LeBron already had a USG% of 28.2.

There are times when Scottie is too passive, but let's not take this to mean that he's been given the keys to the team but just refused to drive it.

There is nothing to really suggest that they wouldn’t hand the keys to a better offensive player. I mean, as a duo they rank near the bottom in usage. There aren’t many, if any more balanced offensive teams in the league. And that’s not a good thing. The best teams in the league have a clear pecking order.

Dreamteam09 is correct, the crème always rises to the top. No one would look at this year and say Scottie needs to take on more of an offensive role. Teams aren’t even guarding him out on the perimeter and he struggles to beat his man off the dribble. He’s just simply nowhere near good enough at this point. Giving him the keys would do far more harm than good. He probably doesn’t even want that given how passive he’s looked when others are out.

A better offensive player like Giannis or Luka etc, sure. Not a guy like Brown who arguably isn't even as good as Siakam. They are nearly at the bottom in usage as a duo because they aren't good enough to warrant a super high usage. We sucked when Siakam's usage was at its highest, and Fred has straight up stunk most of the year.

Comparing Scottie's situation to LeBron's as a young player is not apt. There are plenty of examples of guys who had to wait their turns early on in their career before being handed the keys. You can argue that in the short term expanding Scottie's role would harm the team, but conversely you could make the argument that long term it would be in the team's best interest to get him comfortable with those reps.

[vulture]

This Scottie deserves a bigger role thing reminds me of when the Knicks thought that RJ Barrett deserved a bigger role despite being inefficient in a smaller role. Every fanbase thinks their promising young player is better than they are if they get a clear runaway.

[dTox]

This Scottie deserves a bigger role thing reminds me of when the Knicks thought that RJ Barrett deserved a bigger role despite being inefficient in a smaller role. Every fanbase thinks their promising young player is better than they are if they get a clear runaway.

Except RJ has been an inefficient chucker his whole career, undersized...and his teams perform better when he's off the floor....he is the opposite of Scottie in all those things I've mentioned Scottie

I don't see the similarities

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[vulture]

This Scottie deserves a bigger role thing reminds me of when the Knicks thought that RJ Barrett deserved a bigger role despite being inefficient in a smaller role. Every fanbase thinks their promising young player is better than they are if they get a clear runaway.

Except RJ has been an inefficient chucker his whole career, undersized...and his teams perform better when he's off the floor....he is the opposite of Scottie in all those things I've mentioned Scottie

I don't see the similarities

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They are both inefficient is the point and don’t deserve a bigger role until they can thrive in the role they are in.

Pascal thrived in a smaller role on crazy efficiency. Scottie has to put the work in and become a better shooter before you just hand him a higher usage he hasn’t earned.