2022-23 Season Discussion and Review - the Blockbuster trade and playoff downfall

[Ghost of Kleine]

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[Ghost of Kleine]

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/270813/Mitchell-Robinson-Unhappy-About-Role-With-Knicks

knicks is that dumb organization

Perhaps this is a win scenario for all the Ayton haters out there that want him gone so vehemently at every opportunity? I mean even I as an obvious Ayton supporter ( avatar/ posts) if it's at all unclear, find his soft/ finesse mentality grating and very frustrating to say the least given his immense potential. So I'm not completely blind to the merit of moving him for a more cost effective and physically imposing presence ( to compliment Durant's elite FINESSE game).

But my question in this premise would be what exactly would a realistic framework for an Ayton for Mitchell trade look like??? And how could we extract equitable value for him ( OUR 1ST EVER/ ONLY #1 PICK IN FRANCHISE HISTORY) whose still elite in terms of efficiency and versatility? And post trade, would/ could Mitchell even provide the same kind of gravity to open things up for our perimeter players? Could he even score from midrange at all? What is the equitable value package for us with New York?

Should we look at cheaper options ( of course) such as Holmes, Capela, Poetl, etc with the value return addressing different positions with greater LEGITIMATE quality depth?? Overall the best options in terms of similar production at a lower pricetag would still be the same names I suggested back when this whole contract fiasco began with him. The two best options being Vucevic and Valuncias! Vucevic to open up the floor from three, and Valuncias for size, rebounding and a better modicum of floor spacing?? Any ideas on what our most realistic considerations could be here?

** I'd definitely want a pick inclusion or two to offset all that we gave away in the Durant deal though. And New York has plenty of available picks IF done prior to the draft!

Seeing this is his fifth year in the league, I think most "haters" gave him enough chance to redeem himself.

His skillset has stagnated since the championship year and there's not much going on at the defensive end. His defensive IQ is questionable at best. I think it was clearly shown in the GS game two nights ago when CP was playing D on Curry at the baseline and Ayton just stood there letting Curry attempt and layup. Even the announcer said, CP was expecting Ayton to trap Curry.

I have said it before, Ayton is not a big game player. He's shtting the bed every time he's given the opportunity.

Not arguing your perspective here man that it might be time to move on and despite his unbelievable potential, he very likely might not ever reach it due to his soft hearted affable/ finesse mentality. And even I myself as a staunch Ayton supporter find his hot/cold motor and lack of aggression very frustrating/ grating as I've already stated too. But what I've asked you and others is simply what players/ returning value are most realistic (in any of your estimations) should we look to deal him for a more cost effective option? And which of the likely available trade packages would be best to recoup a modicum of equitable value given our current situation and roster composition? Which teams and which comparable positional players are actually legitimate realistic options for us given the professed concerns and contractual considerations with him?? I'm still asking the same questions (yet unanswered) about what our REALISTIC and LEGITIMATE options would be for him this summer?? I'm not adamantly opposed to moving him at all as long as the return is equitable towards recouping some lost value/assets/ talent or depth. OR the returning package yields some actual flexibility and assets to pursue other reasonable options whilst affording us the opportunity to upgrade other key positions of need or legitimate bench depth??

I'm just waiting for some reasonably realistic ideas around this premise that we might consider, discuss, postulate over. I've already mentioned two names I'd find to be more reasonable cheaper alternatives even aside from Mitchell in Valuncias and/ or Vucevic. And what they're value might be to us! So again, I'm asking any of those with vested interest in moving Ayton: You, Kenny Dorglas, Bigfoot, Sunskerr, Jdiddey, Sunsbum, etc. What are some realistic trade packages/ players/ assets (for purpose of discussion) that we might realistically consider as viable options here in this premise? What assets? Which players would be best options to replace him (and what would they bring that we need)?? most importantly before we can even discuss potential value packages for him, which teams would be truly and legitimately interested this summer?? Any answers to these specific questions is basically what I'm looking for here man?

[lonea]

Perhaps this is a win scenario for all the Ayton haters out there that want him gone so vehemently at every opportunity? I mean even I as an obvious Ayton supporter ( avatar/ posts) if it's at all unclear, find his soft/ finesse mentality grating and very frustrating to say the least given his immense potential. So I'm not completely blind to the merit of moving him for a more cost effective and physically imposing presence ( to compliment Durant's elite FINESSE game).

But my question in this premise would be what exactly would a realistic framework for an Ayton for Mitchell trade look like??? And how could we extract equitable value for him ( OUR 1ST EVER/ ONLY #1 PICK IN FRANCHISE HISTORY) whose still elite in terms of efficiency and versatility? And post trade, would/ could Mitchell even provide the same kind of gravity to open things up for our perimeter players? Could he even score from midrange at all? What is the equitable value package for us with New York?

Should we look at cheaper options ( of course) such as Holmes, Capela, Poetl, etc with the value return addressing different positions with greater LEGITIMATE quality depth?? Overall the best options in terms of similar production at a lower pricetag would still be the same names I suggested back when this whole contract fiasco began with him. The two best options being Vucevic and Valuncias! Vucevic to open up the floor from three, and Valuncias for size, rebounding and a better modicum of floor spacing?? Any ideas on what our most realistic considerations could be here?

** I'd definitely want a pick inclusion or two to offset all that we gave away in the Durant deal though. And New York has plenty of available picks IF done prior to the draft!

Seeing this is his fifth year in the league, I think most "haters" gave him enough chance to redeem himself.

His skillset has stagnated since the championship year and there's not much going on at the defensive end. His defensive IQ is questionable at best. I think it was clearly shown in the GS game two nights ago when CP was playing D on Curry at the baseline and Ayton just stood there letting Curry attempt and layup. Even the announcer said, CP was expecting Ayton to trap Curry.

I have said it before, Ayton is not a big game player. He's shtting the bed every time he's given the opportunity.

Not arguing your perspective here man that it might be time to move on and despite his unbelievable potential, he very likely might not ever reach it due to his soft hearted affable/ finesse mentality. And even I myself as a staunch Ayton supporter find his hot/cold motor and lack of aggression very frustrating/ grating as I've already stated too. But what I've asked you and others is simply what players/ returning value are most realistic (in any of your estimations) should we look to deal him for a more cost effective option? And which of the likely available trade packages would be best to recoup a modicum of equitable value given our current situation and roster composition? Which teams and which comparable positional players are actually legitimate realistic options for us given the professed concerns and contractual considerations with him?? I'm still asking the same questions (yet unanswered) about what our REALISTIC and LEGITIMATE options would be for him this summer?? I'm not adamantly opposed to moving him at all as long as the return is equitable towards recouping some lost value/assets/ talent or depth. OR the returning package yields some actual flexibility and assets to pursue other reasonable options whilst affording us the opportunity to upgrade other key positions of need or legitimate bench depth??

I'm just waiting for some reasonably realistic ideas around this premise that we might consider, discuss, postulate over. I've already mentioned two names I'd find to be more reasonable cheaper alternatives even aside from Mitchell in Valuncias and/ or Vucevic. And what they're value might be to us! So again, I'm asking any of those with vested interest in moving Ayton: You, Kenny Dorglas, Bigfoot, Sunskerr, Jdiddey, Sunsbum, etc. What are some realistic trade packages/ players/ assets (for purpose of discussion) that we might realistically consider as viable options here in this premise? What assets? Which players would be best options to replace him (and what would they bring that we need)?? most importantly before we can even discuss potential value packages for him, which teams would be truly and legitimately interested this summer?? Any answers to these specific questions is basically what I'm looking for here man?

Well, that's answer is very subjective in terms of the value.

But for starter, probably Robinson + Rose (team option). That would probably match the salary. Getting Quickley would be a huge boost.

Rose would replace Payne.

Seeing Payne is only partial guarantee next season, there would be teams that will be willing to take the contract.

[sunskerr]

I'm asking any of those with vested interest in moving Ayton: You, Kenny Dorglas, Bigfoot, Sunskerr, Jdiddey, Sunsbum, etc. What are some realistic trade packages/ players/ assets (for purpose of discussion) that we might realistically consider as viable options here in this premise? What assets? Which players would be best options to replace him (and what would they bring that we need)?? most importantly before we can even discuss potential value packages for him, which teams would be truly and legitimately interested this summer?? Any answers to these specific questions is basically what I'm looking for here man?

Nah **** off. You know for a fact I only propose moving Ayton if it benefits the team. I have no "vested interest" in moving him. If we split him into a center that can do the dirt work and defend well enough (i.e. switch, block shots, rebound), while getting another piece like a PG or whatever then that's fine.

This type of bs when somebody brings up Ayton as a trade option and they jump to "oh you hate Ayton" is ridiculous. He isn't untouchable because he's not good enough to be untouchable. And we should move him if it helps the roster. If it doesn't, then don't!! Very simply approach.

[Jdiddy701]

I would trade Ayton for the following centers: Mitchell Robinson, Jarrett Allen, Clint Capela, and Nic Claxton. I think the Hawks would be the most interested team. If Ayton would be getting paid to what those center get paid, I’d be fine with him, but he’s not and that’s the problem.

All four of those centers are not as skilled as Ayton but do a much better job doing the little things on defense. Claxton would be my dream center going forward. He plays hard and doesn’t take possessions off.

If only James Jones pulled the trigger last year, we’d be so fun to watch with Sabonis and Booker.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[bwgood77]

I would trade Ayton for the following centers: Mitchell Robinson, Jarrett Allen, Clint Capela, and Nic Claxton. I think the Hawks would be the most interested team. If Ayton would be getting paid to what those center get paid, I’d be fine with him, but he’s not and that’s the problem.

All four of those centers are not as skilled as Ayton but do a much better job doing the little things on defense. Claxton would be my dream center going forward. He plays hard and doesn’t take possessions off.

If only James Jones pulled the trigger last year, we’d be so fun to watch with Sabonis and Booker.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don't understand the infatuation people here have with Mitchell Robinson. He's really not that good at all. I can understand being frustrated with Ayton, but you'd certainly be very frustrated with him. The others, yeah, they are very solid at what they do and are paid less than Ayton. Capela I think is close in pay, but he is solid on defense and the boards, if limited defensively.

[Ghost of Kleine]

I'm asking any of those with vested interest in moving Ayton: You, Kenny Dorglas, Bigfoot, Sunskerr, Jdiddey, Sunsbum, etc. What are some realistic trade packages/ players/ assets (for purpose of discussion) that we might realistically consider as viable options here in this premise? What assets? Which players would be best options to replace him (and what would they bring that we need)?? most importantly before we can even discuss potential value packages for him, which teams would be truly and legitimately interested this summer?? Any answers to these specific questions is basically what I'm looking for here man?

Nah **** off. You know for a fact I only propose moving Ayton if it benefits the team. I have no "vested interest" in moving him. If we split him into a center that can do the dirt work and defend well enough (i.e. switch, block shots, rebound), while getting another piece like a PG or whatever then that's fine.

This type of bs when somebody brings up Ayton as a trade option and they jump to "oh you hate Ayton" is ridiculous. He isn't untouchable because he's not good enough to be untouchable. And we should move him if it helps the roster. If it doesn't, then don't!! Very simply approach.

No reason to get triggered or all up in your emotions over my post man. I myself even agreed that it might legitimately be time to move on from Ayton. And I'm one of his biggest supporters obviously. It wasn't anything towards you personally or anyone else mentioned in the post beyond interest in knowing what types of premised frameworks or value packages any of you might envision since the topic or discussion of moving him does indicate vested interest obviously. So in that, it's only reasonable ( regardless of whether you/ others) like or dislike him to consider that any of you might have explored the idea of potential trades for improving the team or acquiring other assets, or even to regain a modicum of flexibility lost in the Durant trade.

There's nothing all that controversial about it as many here would have a vested interest in moving him IF it afforded us any of the above mentioned premises in trade. Even I myself have stated ( in those posts) and well before many times here various postulation on Ayton trade possibilities for us. So whether you and others actually hate Ayton or not has absolutely no bearing on my post interest beyond the possibility that you might have explored the possibilities of our options around trading Ayton for alternative options and/ or other premised assets.

Again, it was nothing personally directed towards any of you beyond interest in hearing any of your potential ideas on what our viable options might ge here. I could personally care less if you or others like him, hate him, love him, etc. I'm only interested in your perspectives and ideas on what our realistic options around this premise might be. Sorry if you mistook it or inferred it as a personal attack in some way as it honestly wasn't at all.

[Ghost of Kleine]

I would trade Ayton for the following centers: Mitchell Robinson, Jarrett Allen, Clint Capela, and Nic Claxton. I think the Hawks would be the most interested team. If Ayton would be getting paid to what those center get paid, I’d be fine with him, but he’s not and that’s the problem.

All four of those centers are not as skilled as Ayton but do a much better job doing the little things on defense. Claxton would be my dream center going forward. He plays hard and doesn’t take possessions off.

If only James Jones pulled the trigger last year, we’d be so fun to watch with Sabonis and Booker.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thank you! This is the kind of answers that I'm looking for towards the purpose of my post. And also further discussion on how we might be able to accomplish any of these trades. I've long been an adamant Ayton supporter due to his unbelievable untapped potential, as well as being our 1st overall pick in franchise history. And have longed as much as anyone for him to develop that aggressive, hungry, physical beast type mentality in interest of a championship. But even I for all of my patience afforded him am seriously starting to doubt he possesses the mental composition or behavioral substance to make the necessary leap ( at least with us)?

So I'm very honestly open to trading him if it leads to somehow upgrading the team in terms of talent/ depth, or even in terms of flexibility and acquired assets ( vested interest) which should be known I myself have as I've mentioned many trades on here even going back to the summer when we didn't extend him. I was looking for other ideas and perspectives on what our most realistic and best options might be ( beyond my usual outlier hypotheticals) and figured those already more open to moving him ( for whatever reasons) would have already explored legitimate possibilities here.

Thank you again Jdiddey for at least answering some of the potential options you'd find most palatable and beneficial for our team in an Ayton trade. Now it becomes any discussions on how we might facilitate such trades this summer ( given our current situation) and what we'd most like/ hope to get back??

[bwgood77]

I'm asking any of those with vested interest in moving Ayton: You, Kenny Dorglas, Bigfoot, Sunskerr, Jdiddey, Sunsbum, etc. What are some realistic trade packages/ players/ assets (for purpose of discussion) that we might realistically consider as viable options here in this premise? What assets? Which players would be best options to replace him (and what would they bring that we need)?? most importantly before we can even discuss potential value packages for him, which teams would be truly and legitimately interested this summer?? Any answers to these specific questions is basically what I'm looking for here man?

Nah **** off. You know for a fact I only propose moving Ayton if it benefits the team. I have no "vested interest" in moving him. If we split him into a center that can do the dirt work and defend well enough (i.e. switch, block shots, rebound), while getting another piece like a PG or whatever then that's fine.

This type of bs when somebody brings up Ayton as a trade option and they jump to "oh you hate Ayton" is ridiculous. He isn't untouchable because he's not good enough to be untouchable. And we should move him if it helps the roster. If it doesn't, then don't!! Very simply approach.

No reason to get triggered or all up in your emotions over my post man. I myself even agreed that it might legitimately be time to move on from Ayton. And I'm one of his biggest supporters obviously. It wasn't anything towards you personally or anyone else mentioned in the post beyond interest in knowing what types of premised frameworks or value packages any of you might envision since the topic or discussion of moving him does indicate vested interest obviously. So in that, it's only reasonable ( regardless of whether you/ others) like or dislike him to consider that any of you might have explored the idea of potential trades for improving the team or acquiring other assets, or even to regain a modicum of flexibility lost in the Durant trade.

There's nothing all that controversial about it as many here would have a vested interest in moving him IF it afforded us any of the above mentioned premises in trade. Even I myself have stated ( in those posts) and well before many times here various postulation on Ayton trade possibilities for us. So whether you and others actually hate Ayton or not has absolutely no bearing on my post interest beyond the possibility that you might have explored the possibilities of our options around trading Ayton for alternative options and/ or other premised assets.

Again, it was nothing personally directed towards any of you beyond interest in hearing any of your potential ideas on what our viable options might ge here. I could personally care less if you or others like him, hate him, love him, etc. I'm only interested in your perspectives and ideas on what our realistic options around this premise might be. Sorry if you mistook it or inferred it as a personal attack in some way as it honestly wasn't at all.

The thing is, you can't lump posters together. I think I have a pretty good read on what most people think of Ayton. I think some would trade him for peanuts and a couple of people may prefer to just get rid of him for nothing but I don't think most would want to trade him unless it was for a decent package.

I am certainly not opposed if it is for an upgrade either. I don't get bothered by Ayton as much as most, primarily because I knew what type of player he was coming into the league, which is why I wanted Luka. I liked Bagley and Bamba worse though.

I know he's not going to be super aggressive and that he's been and always will be mostly a finesse player. He is a very efficient shooter from most anywhere inside the arc, though he's regressed this year in that respect (mostly his first month or two, but a few bad shooting games since). I'd of course like to see him drive more and get to the line more but don't expect it.

The main thing I am disappointed in this year is his defensive regression. I posted the Contested shot leaders showing Brook Lopez way out in front in the Bucks game thread. Ayton used to be like top 10 in both contested 2s AND contested 3s. No one else ranked high on both lists, except I think Mobley as a rookie which was pretty crazy.

But for overall contested shots, Ayton ranked like top 5 because he was contesting so many.

I know he still puts his hand up most of the time and often alters shots and some guys miss, but often he doesn't get it close enough and on occasion doesn't do it at all.

I don't know why he has regressed, though I figured in the summer of 21 he worked on his hook shot and improved his efficiency on offense a ton last year and his D slightly regresssed, but this year he's regressed more. I know some of that is because of shuffling lineups, always playing with new players, making chemistry and cohesion a lot tougher for the players who haven't missed as many games because they have faced so many roster shuffles, but I don't think that accounts for nearly all the regression.

It probably had some to do with the distraction of free agency, and hopefully if he is still here next year he works on those things and gets back to his offense from last year and his defense from 2 years ago. I know people will always want more but I'd be very happy if those two things occurred.

As for trade options, as I've said, I just don't see many teams that need a C or ones that would trade a cheaper one and can absorb the difference. Charlotte for Plumlee and Rozier made sense to me and I liked that pretty well. Or FVV and a big. Or Poeltl and something.

But those options are gone. I don't know that a rebuilding team with tons of picks would want him. They will want to build up through the draft with rookie contracts.

And what decent team doesn't have a C or needs what Zach Lowe called him in a recent article..."a good 2 way C"?

[King4Day]

Please tell me we have trade options for deyawndre this summer

I think there will be and if we don't win it all this year, moving him might cause the team to make another big splash. Will be interesting to see how the offseason is approached.

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/270813/Mitchell-Robinson-Unhappy-About-Role-With-Knicks

knicks is that dumb organization

I know NY loves Quickley but Mitch and IQ for DA and slip CP3 in there while we're at it

[King4Day]

We lost because GS hit 19 3s and we hit 4. We shot poorly from deep and will never win with shooting like that (or very rarely). I imagine if we would have played the exact same game but instead of 4-21 from 2, we were 8-21 from 3, and won by 1, you wouldn't feel there was a lack of effort or plan. Bad shooting isn't a plan, even though we really don't have the 3 pt shooters in our lineup anymore with Okogie and Craig in there instead of Mikal and Cam (when KD's out).

Missing shots is one thing but being on our heels the whole game is something else. Offense hasn’t looked right since kd went down.
We don’t have the talent to keep up with good teams and our bench, which should still be solid with Warren and Ross, isn’t good

Yeah, had we given our chance fully healthy when Bridges and Cam got back, with Bridges getting better at creating and doing more offensively while players were out, I think we'd be looking really good. Even Bridges on the Redick podcast said they were really confident when they were about to be at full strength because they felt they'd be tougher than ever.

I wouldn't be scared of anyone had we gotten there with the improvements in his game. I think people failed to see the importance of Mikal on this team because he never missed a game, so he was always such a key cog in our phenomenal seasons the last two years. People look at those seasons as failure but still made it further than any SSOL team and won more games in a season than any SSOL team.

Anyway, we are probably a tad better than we would have been when/if KD is healthy (I think) but I doubt by much, and you can't necessarily count on his health, as you could have with Mikal.

So we just have to pray he stays healthy and we can figure out a way to replenish our talent when he's gone. It's unlikely we find another player as good as Mikal or a pair as good as him or Cam, but hopefully we find something post KD. I know many just expect to find some star, but most are drafted and with their teams since they are under control for so long, and those few that have moved are typically a lot older and miss a lot more games since they've been in the league for 10+ years (KD, Kawhi, AD, LeBron, Kyrie, George, Harden, etc). Even older stars that haven't moved are injured quite a bit like Curry and Lillard.

Hurts to read that :-/

Ultimately, I always remember, I had no control over it. Whether I wanted it or not means nothing.
I wanted DA over Luka but my thoughts had no play in why we drafted him.
I wanted to keep Bridges and was against a KD deal since the summer (after learning what it would cost) and that mindset means nothing. ugg

Gotta stay positive. Even if we don't win this year, we still have parts we can move to fill holes and can better fix the roster to align with our KD/Book combo.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Spoiler:

Nah **** off. You know for a fact I only propose moving Ayton if it benefits the team. I have no "vested interest" in moving him. If we split him into a center that can do the dirt work and defend well enough (i.e. switch, block shots, rebound), while getting another piece like a PG or whatever then that's fine.

This type of bs when somebody brings up Ayton as a trade option and they jump to "oh you hate Ayton" is ridiculous. He isn't untouchable because he's not good enough to be untouchable. And we should move him if it helps the roster. If it doesn't, then don't!! Very simply approach.

No reason to get triggered or all up in your emotions over my post man. I myself even agreed that it might legitimately be time to move on from Ayton. And I'm one of his biggest supporters obviously. It wasn't anything towards you personally or anyone else mentioned in the post beyond interest in knowing what types of premised frameworks or value packages any of you might envision since the topic or discussion of moving him does indicate vested interest obviously. So in that, it's only reasonable ( regardless of whether you/ others) like or dislike him to consider that any of you might have explored the idea of potential trades for improving the team or acquiring other assets, or even to regain a modicum of flexibility lost in the Durant trade.

There's nothing all that controversial about it as many here would have a vested interest in moving him IF it afforded us any of the above mentioned premises in trade. Even I myself have stated ( in those posts) and well before many times here various postulation on Ayton trade possibilities for us. So whether you and others actually hate Ayton or not has absolutely no bearing on my post interest beyond the possibility that you might have explored the possibilities of our options around trading Ayton for alternative options and/ or other premised assets.

Again, it was nothing personally directed towards any of you beyond interest in hearing any of your potential ideas on what our viable options might ge here. I could personally care less if you or others like him, hate him, love him, etc. I'm only interested in your perspectives and ideas on what our realistic options around this premise might be. Sorry if you mistook it or inferred it as a personal attack in some way as it honestly wasn't at all.

The thing is, you can't lump posters together. I think I have a pretty good read on what most people think of Ayton. I think some would trade him for peanuts and a couple of people may prefer to just get rid of him for nothing but I don't think most would want to trade him unless it was for a decent package.

I am certainly not opposed if it is for an upgrade either. I don't get bothered by Ayton as much as most, primarily because I knew what type of player he was coming into the league, which is why I wanted Luka. I liked Bagley and Bamba worse though.

I know he's not going to be super aggressive and that he's been and always will be mostly a finesse player. He is a very efficient shooter from most anywhere inside the arc, though he's regressed this year in that respect (mostly his first month or two, but a few bad shooting games since). I'd of course like to see him drive more and get to the line more but don't expect it.

The main thing I am disappointed in this year is his defensive regression. I posted the Contested shot leaders showing Brook Lopez way out in front in the Bucks game thread. Ayton used to be like top 10 in both contested 2s AND contested 3s. No one else ranked high on both lists, except I think Mobley as a rookie which was pretty crazy.

But for overall contested shots, Ayton ranked like top 5 because he was contesting so many.

I know he still puts his hand up most of the time and often alters shots and some guys miss, but often he doesn't get it close enough and on occasion doesn't do it at all.

I don't know why he has regressed, though I figured in the summer of 21 he worked on his hook shot and improved his efficiency on offense a ton last year and his D slightly regresssed, but this year he's regressed more. I know some of that is because of shuffling lineups, always playing with new players, making chemistry and cohesion a lot tougher for the players who haven't missed as many games because they have faced so many roster shuffles, but I don't think that accounts for nearly all the regression.

It probably had some to do with the distraction of free agency, and hopefully if he is still here next year he works on those things and gets back to his offense from last year and his defense from 2 years ago. I know people will always want more but I'd be very happy if those two things occurred.

As for trade options, as I've said, I just don't see many teams that need a C or ones that would trade a cheaper one and can absorb the difference. Charlotte for Plumlee and Rozier made sense to me and I liked that pretty well. Or FVV and a big. Or Poeltl and something.

But those options are gone. I don't know that a rebuilding team with tons of picks would want him. They will want to build up through the draft with rookie contracts.

And what decent team doesn't have a C or needs what Zach Lowe called him in a recent article..."a good 2 way C"?

Fair considerations here man. But as far as lumping posters together, when it comes to Ayton specifically, it really doesn't matter (irrelevant) as to whether or not you'd classify yourself as an Ayton advocate or an Ayton detractor (or hater) whatever because if the premise is asking what trades those with vested interests might have explored or considered, it can really apply to any suns fan with a vested interest in the team if we're discussing potentially trading Ayton ( this summer) as the discussion posts previous to mine mentioned. Again, I could care less whether they like or dislike Ayton personally. I'm interested in these people's ideas because of the possible inclinations they might possess to have already postulated on the possibilities.

Which was obviously correct and not all that controversy indicated by ioneas' and Jdiddys' responses. The only person who inferred it as a personal attack was sunskerr. But I've already said I was sorry if he mistook it as a personal attack and explained that it wasn't and that I only had interest in hearing more on their perspectives ( or really anyone's) that might have vested interest in trading Ayton. And even I myself have already stated that I'd have vested interest in moving him for the right reasonable alternative or value return. So it doesn't really have anything to do with grouping anyone together more than interest in hearing other perspectives from those who there might be a distinct possibility that have already pondered/ postulated on the possibilities that we'd have this summer. All of those names mentioned originally are known intellectuals with great basketball insights that can offer constructive perspective to the discussion.

And I thought it might be preferable to many to hear their more realistic perspectives on potential Ayton possibilities this summer than my random numerous outlier propositions, which is why I asked the questions in the first place. Because I believe that it may he a very legitimate consideration for discussion given our current roster composition and financially restrictive situation.

[Ghost of Kleine]

I think there will be and if we don't win it all this year, moving him might cause the team to make another big splash. Will be interesting to see how the offseason is approached.

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/270813/Mitchell-Robinson-Unhappy-About-Role-With-Knicks

knicks is that dumb organization

I know NY loves Quickley but Mitch and IQ for DA and slip CP3 in there while we're at it

Nice! In that scenario I'd wish we could get Grimes in place of quickly for his defensive tenacity. But overall I'd think either would be a solid get. I'd still push for the inclusion of a 1st too. Either Dallas' 1st this year or Washington's next year if we were to trade Ayton in a draft night deal as we'll definitely need a cost controlled talent influx to offset any potential depth we'd lose in free agency?

[bwgood77]

Missing shots is one thing but being on our heels the whole game is something else. Offense hasn’t looked right since kd went down.
We don’t have the talent to keep up with good teams and our bench, which should still be solid with Warren and Ross, isn’t good

Yeah, had we given our chance fully healthy when Bridges and Cam got back, with Bridges getting better at creating and doing more offensively while players were out, I think we'd be looking really good. Even Bridges on the Redick podcast said they were really confident when they were about to be at full strength because they felt they'd be tougher than ever.

I wouldn't be scared of anyone had we gotten there with the improvements in his game. I think people failed to see the importance of Mikal on this team because he never missed a game, so he was always such a key cog in our phenomenal seasons the last two years. People look at those seasons as failure but still made it further than any SSOL team and won more games in a season than any SSOL team.

Anyway, we are probably a tad better than we would have been when/if KD is healthy (I think) but I doubt by much, and you can't necessarily count on his health, as you could have with Mikal.

So we just have to pray he stays healthy and we can figure out a way to replenish our talent when he's gone. It's unlikely we find another player as good as Mikal or a pair as good as him or Cam, but hopefully we find something post KD. I know many just expect to find some star, but most are drafted and with their teams since they are under control for so long, and those few that have moved are typically a lot older and miss a lot more games since they've been in the league for 10+ years (KD, Kawhi, AD, LeBron, Kyrie, George, Harden, etc). Even older stars that haven't moved are injured quite a bit like Curry and Lillard.

Hurts to read that :-/

Ultimately, I always remember, I had no control over it. Whether I wanted it or not means nothing.
I wanted DA over Luka but my thoughts had no play in why we drafted him.
I wanted to keep Bridges and was against a KD deal since the summer (after learning what it would cost) and that mindset means nothing. ugg

Gotta stay positive. Even if we don't win this year, we still have parts we can move to fill holes and can better fix the roster to align with our KD/Book combo.

Yeah, with sports I always try to remember that...what's going to happen is going to happen regardless of how I feel...even game outcomes. Obviously I had strong feelings about this one though...but yeah, not much I can do but keep my fingers crossed.

And obviously the vast majority of the fanbase was super stoked about the trade so it's good for the fanbase and ticket sales for now.

[bwgood77]

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/270813/Mitchell-Robinson-Unhappy-About-Role-With-Knicks

knicks is that dumb organization

I know NY loves Quickley but Mitch and IQ for DA and slip CP3 in there while we're at it

Nice! In that scenario I'd wish we could get Grimes in place of quickly for his defensive tenacity. But overall I'd think either would be a solid get. I'd still push for the inclusion of a 1st too. Either Dallas' 1st this year or Washington's next year if we were to trade Ayton in a draft night deal as we'll definitely need a cost controlled talent influx to offset any potential depth we'd lose in free agency?

It's always funny reading a trade idea that I don't think the other team would do and then seeing your response which is usually the other team adding a first or two to the deal and usually a young prospect as well.

[bwgood77]

Fair considerations here man. But as far as lumping posters together, when it comes to Ayton specifically, it really doesn't matter (irrelevant) as to whether or not you'd classify yourself as an Ayton advocate or an Ayton detractor (or hater) whatever because if the premise is asking what trades those with vested interests might have explored or considered, it can really apply to any suns fan with a vested interest in the team if we're discussing potentially trading Ayton ( this summer) as the discussion posts previous to mine mentioned. Again, I could care less whether they like or dislike Ayton personally. I'm interested in these people's ideas because of the possible inclinations they might possess to have already postulated on the possibilities.

Which was obviously correct and not all that controversy indicated by ioneas' and Jdiddys' responses. The only person who inferred it as a personal attack was sunskerr. But I've already said I was sorry if he mistook it as a personal attack and explained that it wasn't and that I only had interest in hearing more on their perspectives ( or really anyone's) that might have vested interest in trading Ayton. And even I myself have already stated that I'd have vested interest in moving him for the right reasonable alternative or value return. So it doesn't really have anything to do with grouping anyone together more than interest in hearing other perspectives from those who there might be a distinct possibility that have already pondered/ postulated on the possibilities that we'd have this summer. All of those names mentioned originally are known intellectuals with great basketball insights that can offer constructive perspective to the discussion.

And I thought it might be preferable to many to hear their more realistic perspectives on potential Ayton possibilities this summer than my random numerous outlier propositions, which is why I asked the questions in the first place. Because I believe that it may he a very legitimate consideration for discussion given our current roster composition and financially restrictive situation.

As people have pointed out about calling people haters, I don't really like using words like "Ayton hater" or "Ayton supporter", but if I really had to it would be more like "Ayton complainer" and "Ayton non complainer". It's kind of like DarkHawk's post..about nothing you can do. So hope he plays well and if he doesn't, that sucks, but all players have their ups and downs. Like I said, I'm a bit frustrated with his defensive regression...so I hope somehow that turns around if he's around for awhile.

[PittsburghSuns]

The KD layup line injury completely ruined our season. I guess that’s what happens when you give up the farm for a guy who has become fragile as glass.

Even though CP3 is like dragging a corpse around the court would have been fun to see what this team could have done. Suns fans don’t deserve nice things ever for some basketball God reasoning.

Could have done??? KD will be back in two weeks, he didn't die in a crash plane, come on.

I assume you haven’t watched us play recently? Unless we are playing the Spurs, Pistons, or Rockets I honestly don’t know how this team will win more than a couple games the rest of the year? There is no guarantee KD will be back in two weeks that’s just when he will be reevaluated. We could fall into the play in games and it might be without KD.

[bwgood77]

We played fairly well pre KD after the all star break and since he went down we have played the Kings, Warriors and Bucks. Not necessarily games you can expect to win, especially missing your best player.

[garrick]

Tonight either the Clips or Warriors will lose which will bring them to 34 losses and put either team in the 6th spot.

Our schedule is tough & I don't really like depending on the opponents to lose their games but sometimes you need a little luck. Our schedule has been pretty brutal going into the final stretch of the season. We can use all the luck we can get to not fall out of the playoff standings.

[kennydorglas]

Theres no easy matchups in the West.
The WILD WEST is back.