Suns complain about Giannis FT attempts after hacking him all night. Footage included.

[ReddoverKobe]

The Suns do go to the basket quite a bit and still don't get calls. THAT is the problem and the reason why Williams is upset. Just admit to not watching the Suns play often and get your pass, dude. Seriously.

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Booker has attempted 153 shots in the restricted area this season. Giannis himself has taken 599. Giannis has just over 2x the FTA per context Booker does. Tell me again about that "drive" statistic that removes a lot of context.

Giannis lives in the paint and near the basket as that's where he's most effective. Booker is a shooter and thrives outside of the restricted since he's significantly smaller by comparison. Two different styles for two different players. And while Giannis purposely initiates contact as a means of drawing fouls, acting as though Booker doesn't draw contact driving to the basket is pretty funny. So, again, how often have you watched PHX play?

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Clearly you dont watch PHX play after he gave you those stats and after I gave you stats of the bucks/suns game. If facts dotn matter to you I see no reason to continue here. Have a good night.

[Pachinko_]

The evaluation and grading system for referees is robust, comprehensive and brutally unforgiving. It is not perfect. It feels bad when your team is on the short end of the stick. Complaining about it is lame and shows a complete lack of understanding of the NBA.

Good and bad calls are addressed after every game. After every game every official grades the other officials on the floor that game. Every call/non-call is evaluated and graded by the league office. NBA officials who consistently miss more calls outside of the range of human error find themselves out of the NBA. Those officials are reprimanded, fined and fired. The refs who keep their job do the best job of calling games. Period. There is no stable of 100 G-League refs who could come in and call games perfectly.

Oh yeah it's such a great system.
And yet somehow it leaves fans completely unable to articulate in simple English what exactly is an offensive foul in the NBA and what is not. Figure that one out.

[skones]

The Suns do go to the basket quite a bit and still don't get calls. THAT is the problem and the reason why Williams is upset. Just admit to not watching the Suns play often and get your pass, dude. Seriously.

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Booker has attempted 153 shots in the restricted area this season. Giannis himself has taken 599. Giannis has just over 2x the FTA per context Booker does. Tell me again about that "drive" statistic that removes a lot of context.

Giannis lives in the paint and near the basket as that's where he's most effective. Booker is a shooter and thrives outside of the restricted since he's significantly smaller by comparison. Two different styles for two different players. And while Giannis purposely initiates contact as a means of drawing fouls, acting as though Booker doesn't draw contact driving to the basket is pretty funny. So, again, how often have you watched PHX play?

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Where do you think a player is more likely to draw legitimate fouls and contact, attempting shots in the restricted area? Or outside of it? Very simple question with a very simple answer.

And we're going to complain about Book getting half of the FTA Giannis is? Cry me a river.

[Mr Puddles]

You literally just argued a minute ago that Giannis gets a favorable whistle, but that this whistle is earned due to his accolades.

And now you're saying he doesn't get favorable treatmentt.

That seems to be a bit of a contradictory message.

No question that he benefits, but folks also need to realize that that benefit is 100% earned. Dudes been a legitimate MVP candidate year in year out for 5 or 6 seasons. Do that in the NBA, and you're going to get that whistle.

Again, I support Monty's message of game be officiated equally, regardless of who has the ball in his hands. It's good that you seem to have changed your mind and agree now with Monty Williams that there should be no special charity cases, and that the game should be called objectively. Like I said before, this type of dialogue is how issues get resolved.

Well, no I didn't. In the landscape of the league, he gets a favorable whistle at times. There are also times where fouls are ignored as a result of his overall playstyle and how many times Giannis has gotten to the line already in game. Both things can be true, they aren't contradictory at all.

And no, I didn't change my mind, but if building straw men makes you feel better, have at it.

Buddy you literally went from saying:

No question Giannis gets favorable treatment by the refs, but he's earned it.

Spoiler:

No question that he benefits, but folks also need to realize that that benefit is 100% earned.

To saying that Giannis (or anyone else) shouldn't be receiving
preferential treatment by the refs.

Spoiler:

I don't think anyone should get preferential treatment in this league.

That's essentially what Monty was advocating here. Consistency in officiating, that if the game gets called tight, call it tight on both ends regardless of who's holding the ball.

I honestly don't care if you changed your mind or just formulated that poorly, I'm just glad you're on the right side of this issue when it comes to consistency in officiating, and doing away with favorable treatment guys like Giannis are receiving.

[skones]

Buddy you literally went from saying:

No question Giannis gets favorable treatment by the refs, but he's earned it.

Spoiler:

No question that he benefits, but folks also need to realize that that benefit is 100% earned.

To saying that Giannis (or anyone else) shouldn't be receiving
preferential treatment by the refs.

Spoiler:

I don't think anyone should get preferential treatment in this league.

That's essentially what Monty was advocating here. Consistency in officiating, that if the game gets called tight, call it tight on both ends regardless of who's holding the ball.

I honestly don't care if you changed your mind or just formulated that poorly, I'm just glad you're on the right side of this issue when it comes to consistency in officiating, and doing away with favorable treatment guys like Giannis are receiving.

Hey, buddy, I don't know what you don't understand. This is pretty straight forward.

You earn the whistle in the NBA. That's how it works. It's how it's worked for decades. Given that context, Giannis has earned it in the way the others who came before him have.

Does my opinion on whether it should work that way change anything? Nope.

I haven't formed anything poorly. You're just ignoring league context.

[Dennis Reynolds]

LOL. How many guys in this league can handle 3 and 4 guys sent at them possession after possession for a 7 game series with no help? There's been only one in the last twenty years. "couldn't carry the load for 1 whole series?" Just go ahead and ignore the context of that statement.

I think it's a fair expectation to have for an MVP level player. I never have this ridiculous expectation that the best player on the court needs to take out superior teams by himself but I don't see how it's wrong to criticize a player for a massive drop off in his efficiency, especially when you criticized his 2nd option for the very same thing. While we're at it, you also didn't answer my 1st question.

The reason I said 1 whole series is to point out that Giannis had plenty of rest before that series, it's not like he had to kill himself just to make it to the 2nd round.

Well then follow your own advice and give credit where credit is due. Giannis dragged his team to a 7 game series against the Eastern Conference Champion efficiency be damned. If I'm calling 21, 6, and 3 on that TS% crickets, you better believe I'm going to think a lot higher of the guy who's going for 34, 15, and 7.

I don't know how anyone could watch that Boston/Mke series and think that wasn't an exhausting slugfest in which both teams killed themselves independently of their first round matchup.

You keep moving goalposts. First you mention Jrue's lack of efficiency to show Giannis had no help but when I point out Giannis was inefficient as well you decide to post their full stats. Jrue actually averaged 21, 6 and 6 which is nice production for a 2nd option if you ignore efficiency which you keep doing for Giannis but not for Jrue. Jrue also had 44 assists and 14 TOs to Giannis' 50 assists and 36 TOs.

Yes, Giannis had to carry a huge load in that series but so did Butler when he faced the Celtics and he didn't have his efficiency fall off a cliff even though he had comparable, if not identical(lack of) help.

[Infinite Llamas]

Don't foul him, or get in the gym so you're built similar to him and can put up more resistance. Either way, the whining just means they have no answer for him, which is the same for the other 29 teams.

Lol, you realize that if guys could do that, they would do that right? It's not a thing you can just do. There's a reason they call him the Freak.

Probably like telling the Greg Kites and Greg Ostertags of the world to get into a gym and practice their passing and they can get vision as great as a Jokic. Some things are just genetically inherited.

[SkyBill40]

Booker has attempted 153 shots in the restricted area this season. Giannis himself has taken 599. Giannis has just over 2x the FTA per context Booker does. Tell me again about that "drive" statistic that removes a lot of context.

Giannis lives in the paint and near the basket as that's where he's most effective. Booker is a shooter and thrives outside of the restricted since he's significantly smaller by comparison. Two different styles for two different players. And while Giannis purposely initiates contact as a means of drawing fouls, acting as though Booker doesn't draw contact driving to the basket is pretty funny. So, again, how often have you watched PHX play?

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Clearly you dont watch PHX play after he gave you those stats and after I gave you stats of the bucks/suns game. If facts dotn matter to you I see no reason to continue here. Have a good night.

LMFAO. I watch EVERY game, EVERY season. Don't fall into the assumption trap,dude. Be better than that.

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[garrick]

Should and reality of this league are entirely different. I don't think anyone should get preferential treatment in this league. With that being said, Giannis also ACTUALLY gets fouled more than any player in this league. For everyone who argues he gets preferential treatment, I can sit here and point to a number of other players that ARE fouls that don't ultimately get called.

You literally just argued a minute ago that Giannis gets a favorable whistle, but that this whistle is earned due to his accolades.

And now you're saying he doesn't get favorable treatmentt.

That seems to be a bit of a contradictory message.



Again, I support Monty's message of game be officiated equally, regardless of who has the ball in his hands. It's good that you seem to have changed your mind and agree now with Monty Williams that there should be no special charity cases, and that the game should be called objectively. Like I said before, this type of dialogue is how issues get resolved.

What issue? Your coach crying and refusing to change his defense? Not sure how thats a league issue

It's not just Monty even Alex Caruso said on JJ's podcast that Giannis doesn't get called for offensive fouls. Now obviously Giannis does get charges called but there are a lot of non calls where he goes crashing into the defender and that is usually always called a charge.

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

[SkyBill40]

Booker has attempted 153 shots in the restricted area this season. Giannis himself has taken 599. Giannis has just over 2x the FTA per context Booker does. Tell me again about that "drive" statistic that removes a lot of context.

Giannis lives in the paint and near the basket as that's where he's most effective. Booker is a shooter and thrives outside of the restricted since he's significantly smaller by comparison. Two different styles for two different players. And while Giannis purposely initiates contact as a means of drawing fouls, acting as though Booker doesn't draw contact driving to the basket is pretty funny. So, again, how often have you watched PHX play?

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Where do you think a player is more likely to draw legitimate fouls and contact, attempting shots in the restricted area? Or outside of it? Very simple question with a very simple answer.

And we're going to complain about Book getting half of the FTA Giannis is? Cry me a river.

"Legitimate." Uh, sure, dude. A foul is a foul no matter where on the court it occurs. Contact is contact, be it on the perimeter or in the paint.

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[skones]

I think it's a fair expectation to have for an MVP level player. I never have this ridiculous expectation that the best player on the court needs to take out superior teams by himself but I don't see how it's wrong to criticize a player for a massive drop off in his efficiency, especially when you criticized his 2nd option for the very same thing. While we're at it, you also didn't answer my 1st question.

The reason I said 1 whole series is to point out that Giannis had plenty of rest before that series, it's not like he had to kill himself just to make it to the 2nd round.

Well then follow your own advice and give credit where credit is due. Giannis dragged his team to a 7 game series against the Eastern Conference Champion efficiency be damned. If I'm calling 21, 6, and 3 on that TS% crickets, you better believe I'm going to think a lot higher of the guy who's going for 34, 15, and 7.

I don't know how anyone could watch that Boston/Mke series and think that wasn't an exhausting slugfest in which both teams killed themselves independently of their first round matchup.

You keep moving goalposts. First you mention Jrue's lack of efficiency to show Giannis had no help but when I point out Giannis was inefficient as well you decide to post their full stats. Jrue actually averaged 21, 6 and 6 which is nice production for a 2nd option if you ignore efficiency which you keep doing for Giannis but not for Jrue. Jrue also had 44 assists and 14 TOs to Giannis' 50 assists and 36 TOs.

Yes, Giannis had to carry a huge load in that series but so did Butler when he faced the Celtics and he didn't have his efficiency fall off a cliff even though he had comparable, if not identical(lack of) help.

It's not a moved goalpost. If you're not looking at total volume relative to overall efficiency, you're doing it wrong. I shouldn't have to explain that but here we are. It's like saying a guy who scores 10 points at league average efficiency is just as effective or around as effective as the guy who scores 20 at the same percentage. It just doesn't work like that.

The Bucks, as a team had a TS% of 49.64% during the entirety of that series. That gives you an idea of the load he was actually carrying. Even the lauded Celtics offense was at around 56TS%.

[Ayt]

Lots of strawmanning going on here btw. The issue brought off wasn’t that Giannis got more free throws than Booker. Of course he did. It’s the disparity. 24 to 3. It’s not 20-10 or 19-8, more believable disparities. Booker drives a ton, enough to say that only 3 FTs would be quite the anomaly.

Booker averages 6 FTA on the season. It isn't like 3 is some huge outlier. If we ignore the game where he played only 4 minutes, in 9 of his 41 games (22%) he's had 3 FTA or less this season.

A ton of his drives end up as pull up jumpers or floaters which is why his free throw rate isn't higher overall. The Bucks also have fantastic defenders to throw at him, whereas the Suns have no one that can deal with Giannis, and they stupidly let him go one on one a lot.

[skones]

Giannis lives in the paint and near the basket as that's where he's most effective. Booker is a shooter and thrives outside of the restricted since he's significantly smaller by comparison. Two different styles for two different players. And while Giannis purposely initiates contact as a means of drawing fouls, acting as though Booker doesn't draw contact driving to the basket is pretty funny. So, again, how often have you watched PHX play?

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Where do you think a player is more likely to draw legitimate fouls and contact, attempting shots in the restricted area? Or outside of it? Very simple question with a very simple answer.

And we're going to complain about Book getting half of the FTA Giannis is? Cry me a river.

"Legitimate." Uh, sure, dude. A foul is a foul no matter where on the court it occurs. Contact is contact, be it on the perimeter or in the paint.

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So you don't want to answer the question honestly because it goes against what you're insinuating? Got it.

[Pachinko_]

It's not just Monty even Alex Caruso said on JJ's podcast that Giannis doesn't get called for offensive fouls. Now obviously Giannis does get charges called but there are a lot of non calls where he goes crashing into the defender and that is usually always called a charge.

yeah that kinda summarises the thread for me

[SkyBill40]

Where do you think a player is more likely to draw legitimate fouls and contact, attempting shots in the restricted area? Or outside of it? Very simple question with a very simple answer.

And we're going to complain about Book getting half of the FTA Giannis is? Cry me a river.

"Legitimate." Uh, sure, dude. A foul is a foul no matter where on the court it occurs. Contact is contact, be it on the perimeter or in the paint.

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So you don't want to answer the question honestly because it goes against what you're insinuating? Got it.

Already asked an answered. Go back and re-read the posts. Not my fault you fail to comprehend the message.

"Legitimate."

LMFAO.

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[jbk1234]

I'm fine if they want to no call the offensive player when he uses his shoulder to create space the way Giannis does, but you absolutely can't call the defender for a foul when he's thrown off balance by it and there's marginal contact as a result.

[SkyBill40]

I'm fine if they want to no call the offensive player when he uses his shoulder to create space the way Giannis does, but you absolutely can't call the defender for a foul when he's thrown off balance by it and there's marginal contact as a result.

I would be fine with that as well but to a degree. There's making space and there's making space .

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[skones]

"Legitimate." Uh, sure, dude. A foul is a foul no matter where on the court it occurs. Contact is contact, be it on the perimeter or in the paint.

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So you don't want to answer the question honestly because it goes against what you're insinuating? Got it.

Already asked an answered. Go back and re-read the posts. Not my fault you fail to comprehend the message.

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Lol, you didn't answer. I asked where it was more likely. Now you're gaslighting.

[SkyBill40]

So you don't want to answer the question honestly because it goes against what you're insinuating? Got it.

Already asked an answered. Go back and re-read the posts. Not my fault you fail to comprehend the message.

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Lol, you didn't answer. I asked where it was more likely. Now you're gaslighting.

Nah. Not even remotely. Nice tu quoque though.

A foul can occur ANYWHERE on the court. Does Giannis draw all of his fouls in the restricted area? No. So does that make those which are called outside of that less legitimate? By that logic, I guess they don't count.

Look, I'm not going to argue semantics here. Giannis draws a lot of fouls based on his style of play and where he excels; Booker, given his penchant for going to the basket should also draw a lot more fouls than he does, given he is quite frequently finding contact, yet he doesn't get those calls anywhere near as often despite being highly aggressive.

Games aren't called very consistently and that much is painfully obvious. Does Williams have a gripe? Yes. Is it going to rub some people wrong? Naturally. If hugely inconsistent officiating, or even seemingly inconsistent officiating were happening to your team with regularity, would you be pissed and tired of it?

OF COURSE YOU WOULD.


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[skones]

Already asked an answered. Go back and re-read the posts. Not my fault you fail to comprehend the message.

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Lol, you didn't answer. I asked where it was more likely. Now you're gaslighting.

Nah. Not even remotely. Nice tu quoque though.

A foul can occur ANYWHERE in the court. Does Giannis draw all of his fouls in the restricted area? No. So does that make those which are.called outside of that less legitimate?

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AGAIN, you are not answering the question. Where is contact more likely?

It's blatantly obvious you're avoiding the question. It's not lost on anyone.