2022-23 Season Discussion and Review - the Blockbuster trade and playoff downfall

[lonea]

Not arguing your perspective here man that it might be time to move on and despite his unbelievable potential, he very likely might not ever reach it due to his soft hearted affable/ finesse mentality. And even I myself as a staunch Ayton supporter find his hot/cold motor and lack of aggression very frustrating/ grating as I've already stated too. But what I've asked you and others is simply what players/ returning value are most realistic (in any of your estimations) should we look to deal him for a more cost effective option? And which of the likely available trade packages would be best to recoup a modicum of equitable value given our current situation and roster composition? Which teams and which comparable positional players are actually legitimate realistic options for us given the professed concerns and contractual considerations with him?? I'm still asking the same questions (yet unanswered) about what our REALISTIC and LEGITIMATE options would be for him this summer?? I'm not adamantly opposed to moving him at all as long as the return is equitable towards recouping some lost value/assets/ talent or depth. OR the returning package yields some actual flexibility and assets to pursue other reasonable options whilst affording us the opportunity to upgrade other key positions of need or legitimate bench depth??

I'm just waiting for some reasonably realistic ideas around this premise that we might consider, discuss, postulate over. I've already mentioned two names I'd find to be more reasonable cheaper alternatives even aside from Mitchell in Valuncias and/ or Vucevic. And what they're value might be to us! So again, I'm asking any of those with vested interest in moving Ayton: You, Kenny Dorglas, Bigfoot, Sunskerr, Jdiddey, Sunsbum, etc. What are some realistic trade packages/ players/ assets (for purpose of discussion) that we might realistically consider as viable options here in this premise? What assets? Which players would be best options to replace him (and what would they bring that we need)?? most importantly before we can even discuss potential value packages for him, which teams would be truly and legitimately interested this summer?? Any answers to these specific questions is basically what I'm looking for here man?

Well, that's answer is very subjective in terms of the value.

But for starter, probably Robinson + Rose (team option). That would probably match the salary. Getting Quickley would be a huge boost.

Rose would replace Payne.

Seeing Payne is only partial guarantee next season, there would be teams that will be willing to take the contract.

Robinson? That guy cannot play serious basketball for more than 15 mpg. Not to mention Derrick Rose who is washed and finished unfortunately. SMH

You said DA is not the big game player, well he didn`t play too bad last two playoffs, right? You Ayton haters are too prone for overreactions it`s insane.

Heck, calling DA Kwame Brown is enough to discredit you from any serious discussion.

Love how some fools on here is making fun of Robinson.

This highlight package alone just shows how ayton SHOULD be playing as a center,

Watch on YouTube

https://youtu.be/dJf1RtcqSs8?t=117 <---- this is a good one

https://youtu.be/dJf1RtcqSs8?t=192 <---- ayton would probably do a layup instead... LOL

[bwgood77]

Well, that's answer is very subjective in terms of the value.

But for starter, probably Robinson + Rose (team option). That would probably match the salary. Getting Quickley would be a huge boost.

Rose would replace Payne.

Seeing Payne is only partial guarantee next season, there would be teams that will be willing to take the contract.

Robinson? That guy cannot play serious basketball for more than 15 mpg. Not to mention Derrick Rose who is washed and finished unfortunately. SMH

You said DA is not the big game player, well he didn`t play too bad last two playoffs, right? You Ayton haters are too prone for overreactions it`s insane.

Heck, calling DA Kwame Brown is enough to discredit you from any serious discussion.

Love how some fools on here is making fun of Robinson.

This highlight package alone just shows how ayton SHOULD be playing as a center,

Watch on YouTube

https://youtu.be/dJf1RtcqSs8?t=117 <---- this is a good one

https://youtu.be/dJf1RtcqSs8?t=192 <---- ayton would probably do a layup instead... LOL

Reminds me of people posting highlight reels of Ayton prior to the draft to support their argument that we should draft him over Luka.

[phnart]

Ayton...I wonder what motivates the guy. He acts like he is unwilling to fight for a gosh darn (I really want to swear hear) ball. I am sick to death of seeing physical teams push the Suns around. Who is going to get in someone's face and say enough on this team? They are so damn passive. I don't see a deep playoff run for a team with the type of personality the Suns have and it sucks.

[Qwigglez]

I thought the problem with Mitchell Robinson is his lack of motor. You guys think Ayton has a motor issue I think Mitchell Robinson is significantly worse. Plus, he can't move laterally and would easily get exploited in the playoffs. Ayton also is able to spread the floor. I'm taking Ayton 1000%.

Unsure why Ayton has been getting so much more hate too. He's averaging a career high 18.4 points per game, while not even taking a career high in FGA's per game. He is shooting a career high in FTA's too at 3 a game. I am hoping that improves more too but at least he hasn't regressed. Ayton is also taking more shots in the midrange too and he is hitting them at an elite clip for a center at 45% in the 10-16 range. I feel like Ayton gets a lot of heat especially for a being a team player too.

[GoodBehavior]

Ayton’s salary is ranked 36th. I think most people rank him in the bottom half of the 50th best active player in the league. In other words, he’s fairly ranked by salary. It’s strange that a player who is accurately rank gets so much hate. As a second option, he’ll get you around 20 and 10. Is there really a debate here? What exactly are people arguing about?

If you are pissed about his salary, blame the nba economics, not him. These athletes get inflated salary because of guys like me and you

[bwgood77]

Ayton’s salary is ranked 36th. I think most people rank him in the bottom half of the 50th best active player in the league. In other words, he’s fairly ranked by salary. It’s strange that a player who is accurately rank gets so much hate. As a second option, he’ll get you around 20 and 10. Is there really a debate here? What exactly are people arguing about?

If you are pissed about his salary, blame the nba economics, not him. These athletes get inflated salary because of guys like me and you

His salary is fairly high for his position right now, but that's because he is in the first year of his contract, and obviously the cap goes up. Most centers who are better, if teams didn't lock them in before they got a lot better (Robert Williams who is injured a lot and Jarrett Allen. Nic Claxton is a great deal now but expires next year and will probably get paid.

Other guys like Sabonis will get a monster contract soon....he is a super bargain now but expires next summer too.

[GoodBehavior]

Ayton’s salary is ranked 36th. I think most people rank him in the bottom half of the 50th best active player in the league. In other words, he’s fairly ranked by salary. It’s strange that a player who is accurately rank gets so much hate. As a second option, he’ll get you around 20 and 10. Is there really a debate here? What exactly are people arguing about?

If you are pissed about his salary, blame the nba economics, not him. These athletes get inflated salary because of guys like me and you

His salary is fairly high for his position right now, but that's because he is in the first year of his contract, and obviously the cap goes up. Most centers who are better, if teams didn't lock them in before they got a lot better (Robert Williams who is injured a lot and Jarrett Allen. Nic Claxton is a great deal now but expires next year and will probably get paid.

Other guys like Sabonis will get a monster contract soon....he is a super bargain now but expires next summer too.

He’s the seventh highest paid center. That’s where everyone ranks him (between 5 and 10). Again, he’s accurately valued

[Qwigglez]

Ayton’s salary is ranked 36th. I think most people rank him in the bottom half of the 50th best active player in the league. In other words, he’s fairly ranked by salary. It’s strange that a player who is accurately rank gets so much hate. As a second option, he’ll get you around 20 and 10. Is there really a debate here? What exactly are people arguing about?

If you are pissed about his salary, blame the nba economics, not him. These athletes get inflated salary because of guys like me and you

Ayton is heavily criticizes because he's a No 1 pick and Suns didn't draft Luka Doncic.
Many fans see when Ayton doesn't get rebounds that he is being lazy, not understanding the nuances of the game and coaches have different gameplans. They expect Ayton to dogfight any time the ball hits the rim or backboard. If Ayton is on the weakside he better grab the rebound, if Ayton is at the FT line he better grab the rebound, if Ayton is on the bench he should be grabbing the rebound. Some teams game plan to have multiple bodies on Ayton to force other Suns players to grab rebounds, some teams don't go for offensive rebounds, some teams run back on defense, it really depends. It doesn't matter though what the gameplan is though, if Ayton gets less than 10 rebounds a game he's trash, even though Ayton is No 8 in the league for rebounds per game.

Keep in mind that Ayton has 159 career double-doubles, Amare Stoudemire has played 14 NBA seasons and has 253 double doubles in his career, Jaren Jackson Jr has 17, Bam Adebayo has 147 even though he's been in the league 1 year longer than Ayton. Ayton and Embiid both have 34 double doubles this season too BTW.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Ayton’s salary is ranked 36th. I think most people rank him in the bottom half of the 50th best active player in the league. In other words, he’s fairly ranked by salary. It’s strange that a player who is accurately rank gets so much hate. As a second option, he’ll get you around 20 and 10. Is there really a debate here? What exactly are people arguing about?

If you are pissed about his salary, blame the nba economics, not him. These athletes get inflated salary because of guys like me and you

Ayton is heavily criticizes because he's a No 1 pick and Suns didn't draft Luka Doncic.
Many fans see when Ayton doesn't get rebounds that he is being lazy, not understanding the nuances of the game and coaches have different gameplans. They expect Ayton to dogfight any time the ball hits the rim or backboard. If Ayton is on the weakside he better grab the rebound, if Ayton is at the FT line he better grab the rebound, if Ayton is on the bench he should be grabbing the rebound. Some teams game plan to have multiple bodies on Ayton to force other Suns players to grab rebounds, some teams don't go for offensive rebounds, some teams run back on defense, it really depends. It doesn't matter though what the gameplan is though, if Ayton gets less than 10 rebounds a game he's trash, even though Ayton is No 8 in the league for rebounds per game.

Keep in mind that Ayton has 159 career double-doubles, Amare Stoudemire has played 14 NBA seasons and has 253 double doubles in his career, Jaren Jackson Jr has 17, Bam Adebayo has 147 even though he's been in the league 1 year longer than Ayton. Ayton and Embiid both have 34 double doubles this season too BTW.

If you're a fan of this team you have to accept that Ayton isn't always going to give you 100% in the regular season. He plays harder in the playoffs.

The one thing that bothers me is that he's never pushed through the bad whistle: making aggressive play after aggressive play, forcing the refs to make bad call after bad call until they finally figure it out and let him play. Maybe I'm just naive.

Something I wonder though is... we ship Mikal to BKN and he blossoms, increasing his PPG by 10 points (BW way ahead of that... I was very obviously way wrong on that). Would the same thing happen to DA if we sent him elsewhere?

..... And is there something about the colors purple and orange that refs hate? Because Mikal's whistle improved once he left. Would Ayton's? And would he become more aggressive partly as a result?

[lonea]

Something I wonder though is... we ship Mikal to BKN and he blossoms, increasing his PPG by 10 points (BW way ahead of that... I was very obviously way wrong on that). Would the same thing happen to DA if we sent him elsewhere?

..... And is there something about the colors purple and orange that refs hate? Because Mikal's whistle improved once he left. Would Ayton's? And would he become more aggressive partly as a result?

Bridges is getting high numbers now because he's a good player on a bad team. It's no different than when Booker was getting 70 pts a few years back.

But you have to remember, you can't teach aggressiveness, IQ, drive for the game.

If ayton isn't trying to dunk in traffic by year 5 of his career, he's not going to ever in his career.

[grumpysaddle]

Ayton’s salary is ranked 36th. I think most people rank him in the bottom half of the 50th best active player in the league. In other words, he’s fairly ranked by salary. It’s strange that a player who is accurately rank gets so much hate. As a second option, he’ll get you around 20 and 10. Is there really a debate here? What exactly are people arguing about?

If you are pissed about his salary, blame the nba economics, not him. These athletes get inflated salary because of guys like me and you

Ayton is heavily criticizes because he's a No 1 pick and Suns didn't draft Luka Doncic.
Many fans see when Ayton doesn't get rebounds that he is being lazy, not understanding the nuances of the game and coaches have different gameplans. They expect Ayton to dogfight any time the ball hits the rim or backboard. If Ayton is on the weakside he better grab the rebound, if Ayton is at the FT line he better grab the rebound, if Ayton is on the bench he should be grabbing the rebound. Some teams game plan to have multiple bodies on Ayton to force other Suns players to grab rebounds, some teams don't go for offensive rebounds, some teams run back on defense, it really depends. It doesn't matter though what the gameplan is though, if Ayton gets less than 10 rebounds a game he's trash, even though Ayton is No 8 in the league for rebounds per game.

Keep in mind that Ayton has 159 career double-doubles, Amare Stoudemire has played 14 NBA seasons and has 253 double doubles in his career, Jaren Jackson Jr has 17, Bam Adebayo has 147 even though he's been in the league 1 year longer than Ayton. Ayton and Embiid both have 34 double doubles this season too BTW.

If you're a fan of this team you have to accept that Ayton isn't always going to give you 100% in the regular season. He plays harder in the playoffs.

The one thing that bothers me is that he's never pushed through the bad whistle: making aggressive play after aggressive play, forcing the refs to make bad call after bad call until they finally figure it out and let him play. Maybe I'm just naive.

Something I wonder though is... we ship Mikal to BKN and he blossoms, increasing his PPG by 10 points (BW way ahead of that... I was very obviously way wrong on that). Would the same thing happen to DA if we sent him elsewhere?

..... And is there something about the colors purple and orange that refs hate? Because Mikal's whistle improved once he left. Would Ayton's? And would he become more aggressive partly as a result?

Camjo is also getting far more favorable whistles. There's little doubt that being on a team that is not in Phoenix correlates to friendlier calls by the zebras.

[Jarlaxle0204]

The reason I get frustrated with Ayton is because he has the tools to be an all time great in my opinion but is satisfied just earning his money. He plays like he doesn't care. He doesn't seem to have a love for the game from what I can tell. He doesn't fight hard for rebounds. He doesn't try to impose his prescense. He doesn't play with heart.

[sunsbg]

Robinson? That guy cannot play serious basketball for more than 15 mpg. Not to mention Derrick Rose who is washed and finished unfortunately. SMH

You said DA is not the big game player, well he didn`t play too bad last two playoffs, right? You Ayton haters are too prone for overreactions it`s insane.

Heck, calling DA Kwame Brown is enough to discredit you from any serious discussion.

Love how some fools on here is making fun of Robinson.

This highlight package alone just shows how ayton SHOULD be playing as a center,

Watch on YouTube

https://youtu.be/dJf1RtcqSs8?t=117 <---- this is a good one

https://youtu.be/dJf1RtcqSs8?t=192 <---- ayton would probably do a layup instead... LOL

Reminds me of people posting highlight reels of Ayton prior to the draft to support their argument that we should draft him over Luka.

It's one thing to get wrong on a player who's never played in the league. But hating on a good player and pushing for a proven scrub who's been in the league for a few years now is different story.

[lonea]

Love how some fools on here is making fun of Robinson.

This highlight package alone just shows how ayton SHOULD be playing as a center,

Watch on YouTube

https://youtu.be/dJf1RtcqSs8?t=117 <---- this is a good one

https://youtu.be/dJf1RtcqSs8?t=192 <---- ayton would probably do a layup instead... LOL

Reminds me of people posting highlight reels of Ayton prior to the draft to support their argument that we should draft him over Luka.

It's one thing to get wrong on a player who's never played in the league. But hating on a good player and pushing for a proven scrub who's been in the league for a few years now is different story.

Here.., video of "proven scrub" just manhandled the "good player" with an AND1

https://youtu.be/dJf1RtcqSs8?t=117

https://youtu.be/dJf1RtcqSs8?t=254 <--- more "proven scrub" play

Pull up some "good player" footage, you are going to find driving layups and fadeaway jumpers. LOL

Or are you confused on whose the good player and whose the "proven scrub"

[GoodBehavior]

The reason I get frustrated with Ayton is because he has the tools to be an all time great in my opinion but is satisfied just earning his money. He plays like he doesn't care. He doesn't seem to have a love for the game from what I can tell. He doesn't fight hard for rebounds. He doesn't try to impose his prescense. He doesn't play with heart.

I hear this argument a lot. But the reality is that ayton is missing an iso move, preventing him from getting to the next level. He’s elite at pnr, decent mid range shooter, above average defender but he lacks an offensive move. I think he cares and work harder than most people give him credit. Conversely i think his skill set is overrated though he still have time to develop that important facet of the game

[bwgood77]

Reminds me of people posting highlight reels of Ayton prior to the draft to support their argument that we should draft him over Luka.

It's one thing to get wrong on a player who's never played in the league. But hating on a good player and pushing for a proven scrub who's been in the league for a few years now is different story.

Here.., video of "proven scrub" just manhandled the "good player" with an AND1

https://youtu.be/dJf1RtcqSs8?t=117

https://youtu.be/dJf1RtcqSs8?t=254 <--- more "proven scrub" play

Pull up some "good player" footage, you are going to find driving layups and fadeaway jumpers. LOL

Or are you confused on whose the good player and whose the "proven scrub"

If you watched Mitchell Robinson every night for the Suns in a year they were gunning for the championship you'd hate him.

You are never pulling the opposing C away from the rim. I imagine in your highlight videos there are a lot of dunks since he can't shoot. All of his shots this season except 20 are at the rim. Out of those 20 shots that are 3ft or further, he has hit only 7 of them. He has only taken 2 shots out of 10 ft, and shoots 48% from the line. Teams would probably do hack a Robinson in the playoffs.

Look at his shot chart lol https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/robinmi01/shooting/2023

He also can't defend without fouling, and even though he blocks a lot of shots, he tries to block so many that he doesn't really play good defense and gets out of position often. If you think we get called for a lot of fouls now, imagine Robinson. He probably gets a bit of a benefit too playing in NY and at MSG.

[sunsbg]

It's one thing to get wrong on a player who's never played in the league. But hating on a good player and pushing for a proven scrub who's been in the league for a few years now is different story.

Here.., video of "proven scrub" just manhandled the "good player" with an AND1

https://youtu.be/dJf1RtcqSs8?t=117

https://youtu.be/dJf1RtcqSs8?t=254 <--- more "proven scrub" play

Pull up some "good player" footage, you are going to find driving layups and fadeaway jumpers. LOL

Or are you confused on whose the good player and whose the "proven scrub"

If you watched Mitchell Robinson every night for the Suns in a year they were gunning for the championship you'd hate him.


You are never pulling the opposing C away from the rim. I imagine in your highlight videos there are a lot of dunks since he can't shoot. All of his shots this season except 20 are at the rim. Out of those 20 shots that are 3ft or further, he has hit only 7 of them. He has only taken 2 shots out of 10 ft, and shoots 48% from the line. Teams would probably do hack a Robinson in the playoffs.

Look at his shot chart lol https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/robinmi01/shooting/2023

He also can't defend without fouling, and even though he blocks a lot of shots, he tries to block so many that he doesn't really play good defense and gets out of position often. If you think we get called for a lot of fouls now, imagine Robinson. He probably gets a bit of a benefit too playing in NY and at MSG.

Don't crush so hard his dreams of MR becoming an all star and leading the Suns to a championship after being a scrub for years.

[Jdiddy701]

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=e2jUjMUourhO2823KONxMg

It’s honestly incredible where the Suns have been in the standings after all the injuries they’ve had this season. This is why I have all the confidence in the world for Monty Williams. He doesn’t get enough credit with how great of a coach he is for this team. We need KD back asap and we will take off. We haven’t been healthy all season!

This is another reason why I’m not that high on the Kings, I don’t feel as if they’ve had much injuries this season. If Lakers, Suns, Warriors and Clippers had more of their main guys available, the Kings would probably be fighting for the play-in right now.


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[TeamTragic]

I just want to point out that Kal/CamJo seem to be utilized quite well by the Nets. I know they are still losing games but if you put DA on the Nets (maybe even the Pacers) I think we see a better DA.

The dollar stops with Monty who at the moment knows that his bench sucks yet won't play TJ Warren. Warren was starting on the Nets WITH Kyrie and KD. I won't even start on his rotations and how he pulls players when they gain momentum.

I get it though when it comes to DA. His energy is super low and he looks lost out there. Monty is getting paid to keep players motivated and put them in a position to succeed. I just don't think Monty has been putting DA in a position to succeed which based on the numbers might be an understatement.

Please stop with the hatred on CP3 because we know that he won't be our starter next season. At this stage we have to consider both a coaching change and possible moving Ayton if he is not a coachable player.

Personally I would rather get a new coach this offseason and see how DA responds. If he doesn't then explore moving on from him at the trade deadline.

[lonea]

It's one thing to get wrong on a player who's never played in the league. But hating on a good player and pushing for a proven scrub who's been in the league for a few years now is different story.

Here.., video of "proven scrub" just manhandled the "good player" with an AND1

https://youtu.be/dJf1RtcqSs8?t=117

https://youtu.be/dJf1RtcqSs8?t=254 <--- more "proven scrub" play

Pull up some "good player" footage, you are going to find driving layups and fadeaway jumpers. LOL

Or are you confused on whose the good player and whose the "proven scrub"

If you watched Mitchell Robinson every night for the Suns in a year they were gunning for the championship you'd hate him.

You are never pulling the opposing C away from the rim. I imagine in your highlight videos there are a lot of dunks since he can't shoot. All of his shots this season except 20 are at the rim. Out of those 20 shots that are 3ft or further, he has hit only 7 of them. He has only taken 2 shots out of 10 ft, and shoots 48% from the line. Teams would probably do hack a Robinson in the playoffs.

Look at his shot chart lol https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/robinmi01/shooting/2023

He also can't defend without fouling, and even though he blocks a lot of shots, he tries to block so many that he doesn't really play good defense and gets out of position often. If you think we get called for a lot of fouls now, imagine Robinson. He probably gets a bit of a benefit too playing in NY and at MSG.

I think you completely missed the point.

With Robinson, you are not taking shots away from Booker and Durant.

I could careless how much shots Robinson is taking.

Pssst, and ayton should be taking those shots Robinsons are taking. Not freaking fadeaway jumpers. He's not Dirk.