Is Fred VanFleet still on the agenda?

BadMofoPimp · Post #161 » by **BadMofoPimp** » Wed Mar 15, 2023 11:36 am

To me, Van isn't worth superstar money. Dude hasn't played more than 65 games in a single season in since 2018. Don't need part time players. I would pay him up to $25 mil per or let him go be a part timer with some other team.

Post #162 » by **Knightro** » Wed Mar 15, 2023 12:59 pm

BadMofoPimp wrote:To me, Van isn't worth superstar money. Dude hasn't played more than 65 games in a single season in since 2018. Don't need part time players. I would pay him up to $25 mil per or let him go be a part timer with some other team.

He’s on pace to play 70 this year.

And lowering his ridiculous minutes burden, which the Magic would obviously do, would probably help him with a lot of the bumps and bruises he picks up over the course of the season.

Fultz plays a shade under 30 MPG. FVV right now plays 37. So every 4th game FVV plays is the equivalent of playing a whole extra game compared to Fultz.

Lowering Fred’s minutes should really benefit him and the team acquiring him.

AaronB · Post #163 » by **AaronB** » Wed Mar 15, 2023 5:07 pm

Knightro wrote:
BadMofoPimp wrote:To me, Van isn't worth superstar money. Dude hasn't played more than 65 games in a single season in since 2018. Don't need part time players. I would pay him up to $25 mil per or let him go be a part timer with some other team.

He’s on pace to play 70 this year.

And lowering his ridiculous minutes burden, which the Magic would obviously do, would probably help him with a lot of the bumps and bruises he picks up over the course of the season.

Fultz plays a shade under 30 MPG. FVV right now plays 37. So every 4th game FVV plays is the equivalent of playing a whole extra game compared to Fultz.

Lowering Fred’s minutes should really benefit him and the team acquiring him.

Comically, if you give FVV 29+ MPR like Fultz, FVV and Fultz look frighteningly similar.

FVV scores slightly more points on more 3's, Assists are the same, Fultz is a better defender and rebounder.

Post #164 » by **Knightro** » Wed Mar 15, 2023 5:48 pm

AaronB wrote:Comically, if you give FVV 29+ MPR like Fultz, FVV and Fultz look frighteningly similar.

FVV scores slightly more points on more 3's, Assists are the same, Fultz is a better defender and rebounder.

This is also assuming FVV's efficiency/ability on both ends of the floor wouldn't be positively impacted at all by a lowered minutes threshold.

I also wouldn't say Fultz is a better defender, but defensive metrics are very fickle.

Residual-Heat · Post #165 » by **Residual-Heat** » Wed Mar 15, 2023 5:54 pm

assume they both get the same contract, FVV or DLO?

pepe1991 · Post #166 » by **pepe1991** » Wed Mar 15, 2023 5:58 pm

Residual-Heat wrote:assume they both get the same contract, FVV or DLO?

Vleet, to me.
I don't like Russell. I think he is self centric player who doesn't make anybody around him better and needs incredible amount of volumen to justfy existence ( and sucks on defense)

Max Power · Post #167 » by **Max Power** » Wed Mar 15, 2023 6:01 pm

I’d prefer we stick with Markelle Fultz or go in a different direction than Fred Van Vleet. If the Magic win the number 2 pick we’d be foolish not to grab Scoot Henderson. If we did go the free agent route on a point guard I’d rather try to take a swing at Trae Young or someone in that age group. Fred’s about to hit 30 and is declining already. He just doesn’t move the needle enough in my view.

JF5 · Post #168 » by **JF5** » Wed Mar 15, 2023 6:31 pm

Max Power wrote:I’d prefer we stick with Markelle Fultz or go in a different direction than Fred Van Vleet. If the Magic win the number 2 pick we’d be foolish not to grab Scoot Henderson. If we did go the free agent route on a point guard I’d rather try to take a swing at Trae Young or someone in that age group. Fred’s about to hit 30 and is declining already. He just doesn’t move the needle enough in my view.

This is why I'm weary of signing him. He's had a bit of an injury history. Has played over 70 games twice in history career and is about to hit 30. He's a bit ball dominate and his defense is likely to decline.

I just don't see the upside in signing him because even if he brings the spacing. Everything else would suffer.

Skybox · Post #169 » by **Skybox** » Wed Mar 15, 2023 6:39 pm

Residual-Heat wrote:assume they both get the same contract, FVV or DLO?

DLO isn't really a PG or even a "Lead Guard" ...as I often refer to the spot-like a scoring PG, but still a game manager, who gets others in good spots. IMO, He's another SG who can't (or won't) play without the ball in his hands...so he gets called a PG.

IMO, VanVleet's BBIQ as a PG AND as a scorer (not to mention defender) is far superior and a far better fit here...side by side, in a lineup, with tape measures out, DLO looks amazing...but we need some smart game management to goose our kids along the road to success.

**Don't get me wrong - DLO would be miles ahead of what we have today, but not at that money and not with better alternatives.

Rainwater · Post #170 » by **Rainwater** » Wed Mar 15, 2023 10:56 pm

KillMonger wrote:
Rainwater wrote:I would rather draft a PF than pursue FVV. Good player but I don't just think he fits.
Could you explain why?

Sent from my Pixel 7 using RealGM mobile app

Sorry I meant draft a PG rather than pursue FVV. Don't know where PF came from, lol. But in regard to FVV, he really doesn't fit the timeline. He is significantly older than the core at 29. I feel like by the time the magic are really ready to compete FVV will be leaving his prime. Don't think he is necessarily a winner. I think his game fits more with a team with vets rather than a team young guys.

Orlando Dawg · Post #171 » by **Orlando Dawg** » Thu Mar 16, 2023 12:39 am

Fred Van Jameer Fleet Nelson
No thanks

CZ Eddie · Post #172 » by **CZ Eddie** » Thu Mar 16, 2023 4:31 am

I can't believe so many of you want an average star to be our starting PG when the guy only has about three years of prime physical time left before he turns into an "old" NBA player.

Fultz not only fits our timeline waaay better but he's going to be better than this guy in a couple of years.

KillMonger · Post #173 » by **KillMonger** » Thu Mar 16, 2023 7:02 am

Rainwater wrote:
KillMonger wrote:
Rainwater wrote:I would rather draft a PF than pursue FVV. Good player but I don't just think he fits.
Could you explain why?

Sent from my Pixel 7 using RealGM mobile app

Sorry I meant draft a PG rather than pursue FVV. Don't know where PF came from, lol. But in regard to FVV, he really doesn't fit the timeline. He is significantly older than the core at 29. I feel like by the time the magic are really ready to compete FVV will be leaving his prime. Don't think he is necessarily a winner. I think his game fits more with a team with vets rather than a team young guys.

Interesting...i kind of feel the opposite i feel FVV is good enough to elevate the team but is not that big of a star for him to NOT know that the future is Paolo and Franz...he'll be able to shoulder some of the heavy lifting until paolo and franz are really ready to takeover the team because as of now they have some time to improve their weaknesses....Solid Vet, has won a chip....he could help speed up the culture change as a vet that knows what playing on a higher level looks like.....that being said FVV is just one option....we could go through the draft.....wait for a disgruntled star to pop up.....time will tell

Skybox · Post #174 » by **Skybox** » Thu Mar 16, 2023 12:26 pm

KillMonger wrote:
Rainwater wrote:
KillMonger wrote:Could you explain why?

Sent from my Pixel 7 using RealGM mobile app

Sorry I meant draft a PG rather than pursue FVV. Don't know where PF came from, lol. But in regard to FVV, he really doesn't fit the timeline. He is significantly older than the core at 29. I feel like by the time the magic are really ready to compete FVV will be leaving his prime. Don't think he is necessarily a winner. I think his game fits more with a team with vets rather than a team young guys.

Interesting...i kind of feel the opposite i feel FVV is good enough to elevate the team but is not that big of a star for him to NOT know that the future is Paolo and Franz...he'll be able to shoulder some of the heavy lifting until paolo and franz are really ready to takeover the team because as of now they have some time to improve their weaknesses....Solid Vet, has won a chip....he could help speed up the culture change as a vet that knows what playing on a higher level looks like.....that being said FVV is just one option....we could go through the draft.....wait for a disgruntled star to pop up.....time will tell

Exactly...if we get Scoot, he becomes a part of a young big 3 and maybe option #1. If we get Poole, I worry about a battle for hierarchy (but I'd like to try). FVV doesn't defer, but he makes WINNING decisions not selfish ones. His maturity and experience playing with better players is what gives me confidence that the chip on his shoulder will be about winning, not just money or stats. He's never been that kind of player.

Husky1 · Post #175 » by **Husky1** » Thu Mar 16, 2023 6:32 pm

This is a no brainer. We can get FVV and keep both picks. We need more Vets and prospects. Still too many question marks on our talent. Keeping the picks plus adding a solid vet is the way forward. He immediately lifts our floor to playoffs. Imagine if we had him all year, there’s about 10 games I can think of that with a steady vet we would of won. Need to keep both lotto picks as I reckon we’re ready to write off Chuma and JI. Hendricks is a must with bulls pick

Audi · Post #176 » by **Audi** » Thu Mar 16, 2023 8:54 pm

For those in favor of FVV: Do you see him as a part of our core beyond his first contract or more as a temporary stop gap between now and the time we start competing? 4 years of development for Franz and Paolo working with a vet is certainly a worthy cause, but if he's not part of the long term vision when it will matter most - wouldn't it be better to build all that chemistry with someone who is?

zaymon · Post #177 » by **zaymon** » Thu Mar 16, 2023 9:05 pm

Audi wrote:For those in favor of FVV: Do you see him as a part of our core beyond his first contract or more as a temporary stop gap between now and the time we start competing? 4 years of development for Franz and Paolo working with a vet is certainly a worthy cause, but if he's not part of the long term vision when it will matter most - wouldn't it be better to build all that chemistry with someone who is?

Temporary stop gap. We can even trade him for upgrade if opportunity comes.
We have no idea when it will matter most. Some teams improve fast.

Post #178 » by **Knightro** » Thu Mar 16, 2023 9:16 pm

Audi wrote:For those in favor of FVV: Do you see him as a part of our core beyond his first contract or more as a temporary stop gap between now and the time we start competing? 4 years of development for Franz and Paolo working with a vet is certainly a worthy cause, but if he's not part of the long term vision when it will matter most - wouldn't it be better to build all that chemistry with someone who is?

How long do you think it's going to take for the Magic to be competitive?

If you think it's gonna take four more years after this one, then Paolo and Franz ain't the guys a lot of people think they are.

The Magic should be in the playoffs next season. They should be trying to win one/multiple playoff series the year after that.

Audi · Post #179 » by **Audi** » Thu Mar 16, 2023 10:42 pm

Knightro wrote:
Audi wrote:For those in favor of FVV: Do you see him as a part of our core beyond his first contract or more as a temporary stop gap between now and the time we start competing? 4 years of development for Franz and Paolo working with a vet is certainly a worthy cause, but if he's not part of the long term vision when it will matter most - wouldn't it be better to build all that chemistry with someone who is?

How long do you think it's going to take for the Magic to be competitive?

If you think it's gonna take four more years after this one, then Paolo and Franz ain't the guys a lot of people think they are.

The Magic should be in the playoffs next season. They should be trying to win one/multiple playoff series the year after that.

Ah - I'm saying 'competing' in the sense of a finals appearance. The quicker the better, obviously, but I think it'll take 4+ years to get there. Even if Paolo and Franz turn out to be the studs we imagine, I still think we would be one, bigger-than-FVV, piece away from the promised land. Would love to be wrong!

Skybox · Post #180 » by **Skybox** » Fri Mar 17, 2023 11:47 am

Btw, for all of my stumping for FVV, I’d bet it’s most likely he re-signs in TOR. Realistically, a trade is our likeliest path to upgrading this summer. Theoretically, that puts a lot more players in play for us, but FVV would be a great fit. In the unlikely event that TOR decides to reStructure their team, I like our chances but after trading for Poeltl, it seems less likely that they’re headed that way.

Do you think Magic should go after FVV in the summer?