Where would Peak Dwight Howard rank today?

[GeorgeMarcus]

And what does he actually do better in the postseason? He is less mobile, worse as a rim protector, worse on the perimetre, worse against pnrs… Put Embiid in Gobert’s place and the team would likely be better overall, but certainly not because Embiid better covers defensively poor teammates.

Honestly I think your assessment is completely off base. Embiid is a DPOY caliber player and has been throughout his career. Let's look at their team's respective defensive ratings every year they've been in the playoffs:

Embiid Playoff Def Rating:
21-22: 108.6 (-4.7)
20-21: 105.8 (-11.3)
19-20: 120.9
18-19: 93.0 (-21.3)
17-18: 98.6 (-9.5)

Gobert Playoff Def Rating:
21-22: 113.3
20-21: 117.1
19-20: 119.4 (-1.5)
18-19: 114.3
17-18: 106.1

Playoff defenses anchored by Embiid have absolutely dominated playoff defenses anchored by Gobert. The only season in which he didn't have a comfortable advantage was when he was forced to play in the clunkiest lineup of all time and share the front court with Horford (4 game sample). This isn't a "well he had Simmons" situation either because defense was far superior with Embiid than Ben. I think you're seriously underrating Embiid's mobility. Plus he's much stronger than Gobert.

Interesting how you did not actually answer my question outside of saying Embiid is stronger. We for the most part not talking about guarding Shaq or Gilmore here though, and the Jazz’s playoff defences were hardly undone by Gobert being insufficiently sturdy.

My answer to your question was disagreeing with essentially every premise you put forth, and then redirecting the conversation toward something quantifiable. Check me on this but I would bet a pretty penny Gobert was exploited via PnR far more than Embiid come playoff time. I also think back to the Raptors series where Embiid owned Siakam man to man, something I highly doubt Gobert is capable of doing. The mobility part in particular is not something I agree with.

[AEnigma]

Honestly I think your assessment is completely off base. Embiid is a DPOY caliber player and has been throughout his career. Let's look at their team's respective defensive ratings every year they've been in the playoffs:

Embiid Playoff Def Rating:
21-22: 108.6 (-4.7)
20-21: 105.8 (-11.3)
19-20: 120.9
18-19: 93.0 (-21.3)
17-18: 98.6 (-9.5)

Gobert Playoff Def Rating:
21-22: 113.3
20-21: 117.1
19-20: 119.4 (-1.5)
18-19: 114.3
17-18: 106.1

Playoff defenses anchored by Embiid have absolutely dominated playoff defenses anchored by Gobert. The only season in which he didn't have a comfortable advantage was when he was forced to play in the clunkiest lineup of all time and share the front court with Horford (4 game sample). This isn't a "well he had Simmons" situation either because defense was far superior with Embiid than Ben. I think you're seriously underrating Embiid's mobility. Plus he's much stronger than Gobert.

Interesting how you did not actually answer my question outside of saying Embiid is stronger. We for the most part not talking about guarding Shaq or Gilmore here though, and the Jazz’s playoff defences were hardly undone by Gobert being insufficiently sturdy.

My answer to your question was disagreeing with essentially every premise you put forth, and then redirecting the conversation toward something quantifiable. Check me on this but I would bet a pretty penny Gobert was exploited via PnR far more than Embiid come playoff time. I also think back to the Raptors series where Embiid owned Siakam man to man, something I highly doubt Gobert is capable of doing. The mobility part in particular is not something I agree with.

And Gobert was picking up Luka at the three-point line, so what are we doing here.

I agree, Gobert has probably been more exploited in the pnr overall, in a pure volume sense. I also acknowledge Jazz have worse defensive ratings than the 76ers. And the reason why? Well, Gobert has faced the 2017 Clippers, the 2017 Warriors, the 2018/19 Rockets, the 2020 Nuggets (with Jamal Murray), the small-ball 2021 Clippers, and the 2022 Mavericks. In contrast, the only truly high level pnr threat Embiid has dealt with in the eastern conference playoffs are the Hawks, and at minimum, I would always take Gobert’s defensive performance against the Rockets over Embiid’s defensive performance against the Hawks.

Embiid is a great player and a good defender, but no, dodging the best offences does not make him a better or more versatile playoff defender than Gobert.

[GeorgeMarcus]

Interesting how you did not actually answer my question outside of saying Embiid is stronger. We for the most part not talking about guarding Shaq or Gilmore here though, and the Jazz’s playoff defences were hardly undone by Gobert being insufficiently sturdy.

My answer to your question was disagreeing with essentially every premise you put forth, and then redirecting the conversation toward something quantifiable. Check me on this but I would bet a pretty penny Gobert was exploited via PnR far more than Embiid come playoff time. I also think back to the Raptors series where Embiid owned Siakam man to man, something I highly doubt Gobert is capable of doing. The mobility part in particular is not something I agree with.

And Gobert was picking up Luka at the three-point line, so what are we doing here.

I agree, Gobert has probably been more exploited in the pnr overall, in a pure volume sense. I also acknowledge Jazz have worse defensive ratings than the 76ers. And the reason why? Well, Gobert has faced the 2017 Clippers, the 2017 Warriors, the 2018/19 Rockets, the 2020 Nuggets (with Jamal Murray), the small-ball 2021 Clippers, and the 2022 Mavericks. In contrast, the only truly high level pnr threat Embiid has dealt with in the eastern conference playoffs are the Hawks, and at minimum, I would always take Gobert’s defensive performance against the Rockets over Embiid’s defensive performance against the Hawks.

Embiid is a great player and a good defender, but no, dodging the best defences does not make him a better or more versatile playoff defender than Gobert.

Ah come on, Gobert occasionally picking Luka up at the perimeter is not the same as manning him all game. Embiid extended out to guard Trae on several occasions as is expected in switch-heavy modern defenses.

I think we will have to agree to disagree. Embiid being +20 against the Hawks and Gobert being -46 against the Rockets had a lot more to do with their defensive impact than offensive impact (where Gobert is probably underrated tbh).

[TrueLakerFan]

I don’t know why Gobert is being brought up, Dwight is a much better player on both ends of the floor. Dwight would be around top 5 player in the league and DPOY.

[Chronz]

I don't recall Dwight being less mobile than the likes of gobert at all

[70sFan]

Yeah, Embiid faced much different offenses than Gobert. Embiid would be picked apart by Warriors, Rockets or hot Clippers as well.

Also, we don't mention that but Embiid played with significantly better defenders than Gobert (until now). It's much easier to sustain your defensive pressence when you have help from someone like Butler or Simmons than what Gobert had.

[ShaqAttac]

Gobert’s “issue” in the playoffs is that he cannot adequately punish teams skewing toward offence. Dwight absolutely could. Similar reason Embiiid is a better playoff performer despite being several shades below Gobert defensively.

I wouldn't say Embiid is several shades worse defensively... I would actually argue he has been a better post season defender than Gobert straight up

And what does he actually do better in the postseason? He is less mobile, worse as a rim protector, worse on the perimetre, worse against pnrs… Put Embiid in Gobert’s place and the team would likely be better overall, but certainly not because Embiid better covers defensively poor teammates.

He thicc