Most Overrated Player in the Top 10

[formula 400]

Duncan and Russell

[brutalitops]

Possibly magic? It's hard to call any of them over-rated, Infact i think Russell/Lebron/Duncan is generally still under-rated

[70sFan]

The fact that Russell is the first choice by most here clearly shows how little improvement in basketball knowledge there is on regular basketball community. It's so painfully wrong, but I guess he didn't score enough - right?

[zimpy27]

I find this difficult to answer. The top 3 guys are overrated by different people.

Jordan is probably the most overrated by some who see him as mythological being. I don't know if this is what you ask in OP though.

[soxfan2003]

Even though in terms of career/longevity in the NBA, one can easily make argument that Lebron has had the best and is even the GOAT non big if you value longevity, IMO if you kind of look at it from a basketball purist POV, he is the most overrated. Let me first say Lebron's athleticism is extraordinary and he is a very smart basketball player. In terms of athleticism, I may only rate 80's Jordan and Wilt higher..

Despite not being a great or even very good 3 point shooter, probably no star player in NBA history other than Steph Curry has benefitted from the 3 point shot as much as Lebron. Some may say Ray Allen but he would still have been a star in a pure 2 ball era with his overall skillset and ability to shoot from everywhere. And not one is arguing RA as a top 20 player all time.

Without the 3 point shot, teams would be playing a lot more bigs that can defend the paint/rebound and it would be tougher for Lebron (or Giannis) to play his athletic bully ball so effectively. So without the 3 point shot, it just becomes much easier to just pack the paint on him and his deadly kick and drive game is just not nearly as effective. A pack the paint defense doesn't work well when Lebron is surrounded by decent 3 point shooters but it work better if the 3 point shot isn't an option and Lebron forced to pass the ball out to 2 point shooters. And then at that point, Lebron's lack of perimeter shooting becomes more of a problem unless he wants to play more of a post-up PF game which limits his effectiveness as well

Lebron would still be a tremendous fast break option/playmaker without the 3 ball but a lot of his value in the halfcourt would be markedly reduced. Magic Johnson may have had a slow perimeter shot but he could shoot. Check out his free throw percentages and Magic was the better post-up option.

I am not saying Lebron wouldn't be a superstar or an MVP winner without the 3 ball but what I am saying is he wouldn't be in the GOAT conversation and it would be much tougher for him to win championships.

The 3 other non bigs in this top 10 list have enough shooting ability from 2 point land on the perimeter(Bird, Jordan, Magic) that their games still work well without the 3 ball. Magic/Bird both won championships when the 3 was pretty much a non factor.

Bird/Magic and even Jordan to a lesser extent didn't really grow up with the 3 ball so their games developed without it. One could make the argument that same would hold true for Lebron but evidence to the contrary is the guy knows he was going to get fouled a lot and never became a very good free throw shooter for a perimeter scorer.

[MaxZaslofskyJr]

Easily Bill Russell.
He benefits the most by the convoluted logic that would dictate that a 10 dollar bill in a wallet with four 5 s means more than a 20 dollar bill in wallet with a four 1 s.

[Statlanta]

The guys heavily promoted by TV so Jordan/LeBron/Magic/Bird

[Roger Murdock]

It's LeBron for me, but you can't say that around here anymore especially ever since he broke the all time scoring record. Great great great player, don't get me wrong, outstanding longevity. I just don't view him as a lock at #2. Top 6? Absolutely.

As for those people negging older guys like Magic and Bird for a lack of longevity, how do you think LeBron would have held up in the 80s when there was no load management culture? When guys couldn't afford to spend 2 million dollars a year on their bodies? When the supplements industry was not as widespread throughout the NBA? I bet you he wouldn't have played for 20 seasons and if by some miracle he did, I doubt he'd be playing the way he is today.

So you knock LeBron because in some absurd hypothetical where he played in a league 23 years earlier he probably would have been injured more or gotten HIV? Bird threw his back out doing manual labor. Magic ruined his career f'ing around. Jordan would have had a long career without quitting. Hakeem had a long career, Barkley, Malone etc.

Imagine how overrated Wade is. Wade was irrelevant 8 years ago and they are contemporaries. He'd probably have been washed after his rookie contract if he played in the 1980s given your absurd logic. Same with Dwight Howard, Carmelo Anthony, etc.

LeBron is an insane outlier for people who joined the league at his own time. Look at him vs the other ATGs of his generation. He joined the league 4 years before Durant and looks way more reliable.

[Roger Murdock]

The answer to this question is EASILY Wilt Chamberlain

Worst playoff performer of the 10 by a mile.
He's held at diety status for what he did early in his career - 50ppg, all the scoring records, but that was actually him at his worst. Ben Taylor on thinking basketball discusses why those seasons are wildly overrated, he doesnt think they are top-100 offensive seasons in NBA history because he sabotaged the teams offense at expense of his personal stat collections. The biggest blackhole in NBA history. 20+ FGA per assist. The teams offenses stunk because the strategy was 'pass to wilt, have him shoot or turn it over, nobody else do anything'.

If Wilt actually played the passer/defender/high efficiency scorer role he was amazing at later in his career, early on, he might have won 7-8 championships and be the GOAT. Instead his selfish play got in his own way.

To the people who think 50 points per game is proof of his all time greatness let me ask you this. If 2019 James Harden decided to stop passing, and took 40 shots per game instead of 25, and his assists dropped from 8 to 2, do you think he would have been a better player or a worse player?

[Reeko]

It's LeBron for me, but you can't say that around here anymore especially ever since he broke the all time scoring record. Great great great player, don't get me wrong, outstanding longevity. I just don't view him as a lock at #2. Top 6? Absolutely.

As for those people negging older guys like Magic and Bird for a lack of longevity, how do you think LeBron would have held up in the 80s when there was no load management culture? When guys couldn't afford to spend 2 million dollars a year on their bodies? When the supplements industry was not as widespread throughout the NBA? I bet you he wouldn't have played for 20 seasons and if by some miracle he did, I doubt he'd be playing the way he is today.

So you knock LeBron because in some absurd hypothetical where he played in a league 23 years earlier he probably would have been injured more or gotten HIV? Bird threw his back out doing manual labor. Magic ruined his career f'ing around. Jordan would have had a long career without quitting. Hakeem had a long career, Barkley, Malone etc.

Imagine how overrated Wade is. Wade was irrelevant 8 years ago and they are contemporaries. He'd probably have been washed after his rookie contract if he played in the 1980s given your absurd logic. Same with Dwight Howard, Carmelo Anthony, etc.

LeBron is an insane outlier for people who joined the league at his own time. Look at him vs the other ATGs of his generation. He joined the league 4 years before Durant and looks way more reliable.

And all of those players had serious declines as they got older, with Malone being the exception who somehow managed to still play 80 games a season in his late 30s and average 22 and 8.

Yeah 8 years ago D Wade was that irrelevant 33 year old All Star averaging 22/5/4 lol.

Listen if you don't think that modern science, and his willingness to spend absurd amounts of money on his body impacted his career longevity then there's really nothing to discuss.

Regardless, I never said that that was my reason for knocking him, there's a litany of other reasons that I could cite. I was just pointing it out as a reason not to knock guys like Magic and Bird who didn't have the same advantages. Or do you not believe that modern therapies could have potentially helped prolong their careers?

Up until last season, Durant was still in the conversation as the best player in the world. LeBron isn't even mentioned in those discussions any more.

[-Sammy-]

Olajuwon is the first guy I'd take out of this top 10, though his two-year peak might be a top-five peak.

You honestly don't believe that Hakeem >>> Bill Russell in the 60s and 90s

Is this a question?

I think Russell is the most overrated because of the very skewed 13 rings. Ya'll really think Russell would have won a ring on a team other than the Celtics?

The man has nine rings as a player; you can argue that the rings are worth less due to era, but you can only do so much to explain away nine rings. His role on those teams speaks for itself, too; he wasn't just along for the ride.

[-Sammy-]

LOL when did Duncan make the top 10????? only on this board smh

Who's taking Duncan's place on the OP's list?

[Dutchball97]

Jordan - While I agree with the premise that Jordan is #1, it's not super clear to me so potentially somewhat overrated here.
LeBron - #2 is a very fair placing for LeBron but like with MJ I don't think the case is so inarguable that he's 2nd at worst when there are more GOAT candidates around.
Kareem - Fairest statement out of anyone on this list imo.
Russell - Unlike the majority apparently I think this statement underrates Russell if anything because I think he's a tier above Wilt and Duncan, while belonging with the 3 guys above him.
Wilt - I have him as a fringe GOAT candidate and either 5th or 6th on my list so it's kind of correct but barely.
Duncan - top 5 just outside the GOAT debate is pretty much right where I have him.
Shaq - Kind of like Wilt I broadly agree but barely as I do have him as a top 3 peak but have him ranked 7th instead of 6th.
Magic - I don't agree he's the best offensive player and top 5 is also significantly higher than I have him.
Bird - Agreed but I've seen realistic longevity and consistency based arguments that could place him out of the top 10.
Hakeem - Has everything needed to be consensus top 10 except for accolades, which aren't particularly important for my evaluation.

So I either agree or sort of agree with every statement except for Magic so he's the standout for me.

[Bob Ross]

I dontbthink any of them are over rated. Gun to my head I would pick Hakeem if I had to, but I dont feel good about it

[nikster]

give each of these players you have listed in the top 10...Larry Bird's body and athleticism and see how they are. Almost every single one of those players except Magic and Bird, hit the genetic lottery and most of their dominance was predicated on them having a physical and athletic advantage. So essentially most of the centers and Lebron are way overrated and guys like Kobe, West, Havlicek, Oscar and Baylor are underrated because they relied on skill mostly.

Poor Magic, the 6 foot 9 220 pound point guard who didn't have any genetic or physical advantages over his peers.

Athleticism is part of the game, knocking players for being good athletes is ridiculous

[rzzzzz]

For me, although I LOVE defense, it's Russell. I think he's an all timer for a lot of reasons, but I just don't have him as a GOAT candidate. I understand the rings argument, and love the winning resume, but a title in his time just isn't the same as a later title. His team was stacked and the league was tiny. I have him at the back of my second tier, around #7/8, due to his lack of offense

All the teams were stacked. All the best players on so few teams! You can only play 5 at a time. And Russell won everything. NCAAs when segregation was rampant. The Olly’s when it was amateur. He was injured his 2nd year with Boston, and legitimately got beat by Wilt and an extremely stacked 6er team in ‘67. That’s it. Every other time he competed, he won. If he could time travel to today, he would still be blocking shots to himself and tossing touchdown fast break passes. Directing traffic, and putting in points at clutch moments when his shooters were stifled. Just about the only time he loses is in conversation, decades later, not on the court.

(I know I rant, but I watched the man beat Wilt, Jerry and Elgin, and everybody else that he encountered, not just during his prime years, but his whole career from college jr until he retired.)

[jazzfan1971]

I never saw wilt or Russel. It's really hard for me to judge them. For instance does Jerry west belong in the top 10? No idea. Never saw him play.

It would be easier for me to rank eras and start in the magic/bird era.

None of the guys on that list struck me as over rated though.

It seems to me that this board has gotten much better at rating players over the years. I used to struggle with some guys ratings, but I think people in general at least on Realgm have caught up to me and there really isn't anyone I feel is that overrated currently.

Maybe Vanderbilt and Beasley. But, I think that is just a small sample size problem.

[Wolveswin]

I find this difficult to answer. The top 3 guys are overrated by different people.

Jordan is probably the most overrated by some who see him as mythological being. I don't know if this is what you ask in OP though.

Jordan is a mythological being but Wilt with his 10,100 women, track star who is faster than Bolt, and better at karate than Lee?!?

Jordan off the court persona became bigger than his on court. He wasn’t the first, but became the GOAT at marketing, shoes, world popularity, and WAY more than basketball. Rightfully so, Jordan gets the GOAT treatment for more than the 6 rings for his basketball achievements. I don’t think that is mythical but the reality that MJ became.

[jehosafats]

Olajuwon is the first guy I'd take out of this top 10, though his two-year peak might be a top-five peak.

As of today, Olajuwon is still #1 in blocks, #14 rebounds, #10 steals, and #12 points. He was phenomenal throughout his career.

[Mean_Streets]

I would say Wilt.

- In '63, his team went 31-49 with him averaging 45 ppg (I expect more impact, regardless of supporting cast)
- Lakers got worse on offense when they signed him.
- Sixers offense didn't miss a beat when they traded him to LA

There is alot of evidence that suggest that his crazy stats didn't translate to this high impact player that you would expect.