moocow007 wrote:nykballa2k4 wrote:moocow007 wrote:Depends on whether you went overboard (the other way) to begin with. Same as was the case with Randle.
Fans tend to get carried away with IMO a lot of unrealistic expectations of players and coaches. The same way to basically expect Randle to be Lebron James (basically soloing by himself for team success) was unfair and unrealistic, expecting Thibodeau to take a team that only had Randle as his Lebron James to anything was also unrealistic.
Folks saw what Randle could do in his MIP season and expected that to be the norm regardless of who was (or rather wasn't) on his floor with him. Folks bring up Thibs time with the Bulls and expected that to be the norm regardless of what players he had to coach here (compared to what he had in Chicago). Just as it was unfair and unrealistic to expect Randle to keep single handedly carrying the Knicks to anything, it was unfair and unrealistic to expect Thibs to get a team that had Randle as the only real talent to anything.
There's a reason talent and team building are critical for success in professional sports. If it wasn't every team would be winning right? Why would any team not want to win if talent and team building wasn't important? Up until the additions of Brunson and Hart this team lacked the talent and team to do much of anything. Without more talent and better teammates Randle would have to be prime Lebron and Thibs would have to be Red Auerbach to do what fans demanded that they be able to do. Talking fantasy land not reality.
That's also the reason why you never saw me want to lynch Randle nor chuck Thibs out with the dirty bath water. Both player and coach are very very good but they are not elite elite. So for them to be successful you need to give them help and not expect them to pull miracles out their butt. The Knicks FO (the party that should bear most of the blame) appears to have gotten things right more and more often than they did when they started.
If anything it's the FO that should be getting a good amount of credit for how they are playing now (they got Brunson and they got Hart, adding significant talent and team play) just like they deserved a good amount of the blame when they sucked (by making mind boggling contract offers/signings and head scratching collection followed by punting of draft picks...and not much of anything else).
Sound arguments.
My wishlist at this point is for a) Thibs to actually create functional inbounds plays for the final 2 minutes. b) to make sure Randle is not handling the ball near double teams on big possessions. If we are not going to use Rose, than perhaps we need to call Wall or something just to have a true ball handler in reserve.
Yeah.
Item a) may be hard as Thibs (and every other veteran coach that's been successful) tend to be set in their ways. I do see some changes now from when he was coaching other teams so that is a plus but I wouldn't expect significant changes.
I mean I don't see any other teams failing to inbounds the ball. It's really inexplicable.
As far as b) goes I think we're already seeing that. Rather than Randle getting the ball out by the 3 point line early in the shot clock and watching him dribble the clock down (trying to figure out who to pass it to or whether he should take it himself...like a Lebron James would), we're seeing Brunson manage the clock in those situations. Randle still gets the ball but it's usually when he's in a better position to do something with it. Not all the time, but definitely noticeably more often than in previous seasons.
Randle doesn't have to be LeBron, but high-post iso is very different from beyond the arc Iso. With or without Brunson, the latter should NEVER happen.
Is he always successful? No. But he's more successful than ever before. Part of it is because the vibe has changed but also because he's getting the ball in more advantageous situations where he can try to use his talent to exploit the defender than being a one man gang. Also even the top players in the league aren't always successful...fans seem to forget that (and Randle is clearly not among the top players in the league).
There is a difference between result and process. The end of the Heat game was bad process despite the miracle result. Success here is simply taking a good or reasonable last second shot. Failure is the Carlton.
Was it his fault for being that one man gang?
50/50, a better, smarter player would talk with the coach about options.
I'll go back to what I said before, who was he going to pass it to and, more importantly, he's a PF not a PG and not Lebron James like, so expecting him to be able to figure all that out (when to pass, when to shoot, when to do everything...especially in crunch time) is a bit unrealistic to say the least...and that's why he failed (cause he's not Lebron James like). Folks act surprised when that happens for some reason.
Taking LeBron out of the math here... The ball should be passed in to either directly to a ball handler or to a C (like Hart with good ft%) and then go to a ball handler (Rose, IQ, Kemba, Fournier). Off ball motion or just clear out should give Randle a chance to get the ball in position.
Difference this season? With Brunson, he's not had to do that...and the result is he's playing terrific cause he's now focusing on what he actually is real good at (scoring rather than trying to be a Lebron like one man gang).
Agree that Brunson is a huge help, but the notion that the ball has to start in your stars hands regardless of position is just a false place to start. Did they directly inbounds to Ewing, Mourning, Shaq, Malone back in the day? No.
