Where would Peak Karl Malone rank today?

[Matt15]

Where would peak Malone rank in today's league overall?

[Dutchball97]

I think he's top 5 with health taken into account.

[Medbrat]

Bottom of top10, the league is way too stacked now.

[IdolW0rm]

One of the best roll mans ever on a PnR heavy league, and probably the strongest player in the NBA with great transition skills and pick and pop action? I think he'd be just fine.
Would rank pretty much in the same range as he did in his own era and would probably visit the free throw line at an absurd rate.

[GrindCityHustle]

He couldn't shoot the three. For his time he was an elite 4.

[magicman1978]

He couldn't shoot the three. For his time he was an elite 4.

Brook Lopez, Julius Randle, Al Horford, etc., etc. could not shoot either... until they started shooting them. Malone was 50+% on long 2s in his prime on high volume - he should not have issues becoming a decent 3pt shooter.

[IdolW0rm]

He couldn't shoot the three. For his time he was an elite 4.

Malone had an excellent mid-range game.
In his only two prime years of available data he shot a phenomenal 53% from 16-3pt with 30% of his attempts coming from that range. Granted 96/97 was with a shortened 3pt line but 97/98 percentages are pretty much identical.
Embiid shot 46% from that range in the past 2 seasons, Jokic, with the exception of this season (which has been a total historical outlier) 44.8% since 18/19.

I have no reason to believe he wouldn't have developed a 3pt shot and got good enough at it to at least be a threat and fit in the spacing era of today. I don't think historic level of mid-range shooters are ever going to be completely inept shooting the 3 with the right amount of focus and practice.
Some players that transitioned from the previous era to this one enhance my point. Brook Lopez being one. A very good mid-range shooter with no 3-game at all that turned into a three point machine. Marc Gasol is another example.

Not to mention there are still interior offensive players in this league succeeding without being great 3 point threats. Sabonis is doing pretty amazing shooting only 1 three pointer a game, Zion under that.

[Colbinii]

I voted Top 10. I have a hard time seeing him over Giannis/Embiid/Luka/Jokic/Butler while healthy I would take Curry/LeBron/KD as well.

[No-more-rings]

I don’t really understand the votes for best player or top 3. He’d have 0 case over Giannis or Jokic, and unless a bunch of guys end up injured or something top 5 seems unlikely as well. I voted top 10.

[IdolW0rm]

I voted Top 10. I have a hard time seeing him over Giannis/Embiid/Luka/Jokic/Butler while healthy I would take Curry/LeBron/KD as well.

I think he's top 5'ish. No case over Jokic, Giannis or Embiid. I have no trouble ranking him over Butler at all, as good as he's been. I don't really see the argument on Jimmy being the better or more valuable player than prime Malone honestly. At least in the Regular Season.

Lebron is also hard if not impossible to make an argument for, unless people are going with "he's Lebron, he's got that extra gear" stuff or "come Playoffs I trust Lebron" based on his great past.
I mean, Lebron is still fantastic, but he barely scored at league average efficiency this season and his playmaking value has significantly decreased, career low from three... Defense also isn't anything to write home about I think, though that has always been the case in the last years, and he does dial it in in the Playoffs in terms of effort. But from what I've seen in the RS this year, and leaving aside the intangibles Lebron always carries, he wasn't a better player than prime Mailman IMO.
Big problem with Karl is always going to be his Postseason drop-off.
But 34 year old Malone, while noticeably worse than his early 90's version on defense was a still a +5.17 in PI-ORAPM on a 1st offense 62 win team, and he has a GOAT level motor and durability that's hard to find in the elite players of this league. That also adds huge value of course.
But I do see why one could rank him below a large group of current players due to Playoff performance concerns. He really comes with that caveat. If not that, then I'd say he's for sure Top 5 or so today in terms of RS, as he was in his era.

[tsherkin]

But 34 year old Malone, while noticeably worse than his early 90's version on defense was a still a +5.17 in PI-ORAPM on a 1st offense 62 win team, and he has a GOAT level motor and durability that's hard to find in the elite players of this league. That also adds huge value of course.\

Fair, but would that be the case today? He's got a pretty good shot of translating well in the RS, anyway. Doesn't seem a leap that he'd develop at least a competent three, for sure, and he was THE example of the PnR/PnP big for a long, long time, no doubt. A little post iso action but not too much, a team that ran pretty well and boom. He'd probably still be pretty good. he'd certainly give miles with his durability. But top 5? For a guy who struggled in iso situations to a degree we don't see from folks like Embiid and Jokic? Those two, Giannis, Curry, Luka, I think that's an easy top 5 that Malone isn't a part of, even with health concerns. Past that, it does start to get more interesting. That's when we start having the Tatum, Haliburton, KD, Shai and Lillard type conversations, I guess.

[kcktiny]

I don’t really understand the votes for best player or top 3.

What's not to understand? Malone was all-NBA 1st team 11 straight years, scored more points than anyone over a full decade while being very efficient on offense for a high scorer. He also grabbed the 3rd most rebounds over that full decade, and was a very good defensive player (all-defensive 1st team 3 times).

And you're talking about his peak.

He’d have 0 case over Giannis or Jokic

No case over Jokic, Giannis or Embiid.

Over a full decade Malone averaged playing over 3100 minutes and 81-82 games a season.

Antetokounmpo hasn't played 2500 minutes in a season in 5 years, and never as much as even 2900 minutes in a season. Jokic hasn't played 2500 minutes in a season in his entire 8 year career. Embiid has yet to play even 2300 minutes in a single season, and that's over 7 seasons.

A peak Malone playing every game and 3100+ minutes in a season is going to help your team win more games than any of Antetokounmpo, Jokic, or Embiid playing less than 2500 minutes.

[No-more-rings]

I don’t really understand the votes for best player or top 3.

What's not to understand? Malone was all-NBA 1st team 11 straight years, scored more points than anyone over a full decade while being very efficient on offense for a high scorer. He also grabbed the 3rd most rebounds over that full decade, and was a very good defensive player (all-defensive 1st team 3 times).

And you're talking about his peak.

He’d have 0 case over Giannis or Jokic

No case over Jokic, Giannis or Embiid.

Over a full decade Malone averaged playing over 3100 minutes and 81-82 games a season.

Antetokounmpo hasn't played 2500 minutes in a season in 5 years, and never as much as even 2900 minutes in a season. Jokic hasn't played 2500 minutes in a season in his entire 8 year career. Embiid has yet to play even 2300 minutes in a single season, and that's over 7 seasons.

A peak Malone playing every game and 3100+ minutes in a season is going to help your team win more games than any of Antetokounmpo, Jokic, or Embiid playing less than 2500 minutes.

I’m not sure why you’re talking about career achievements when the thread is about peak.

[kcktiny]

I’m not sure why you’re talking about career achievements when the thread is about peak.

I’m not sure why you’re talking about career achievements when the thread is about peak.

Malone played 19 years in the league. He was all-NBA 1st team 11 times. Those are his peak years.

Or don't you think being named all-NBA 1st team is a peak year for a player?

Over those 11 seasons he averaged playing 3100+ minutes per 82 games (37-41 min/g), and he missed just 5 regular season games over those 11 seasons. He averaged 27 pts/g shooting quite well with very good offensive efficiency, averaged 11 reb/g, was a very good defender.

I'll take that in a heartbeat over players like Antetokounmpo, Jokic, or Embiid who miss games and don't play major minutes. They're all great players but the one that can be counted on to be there every game and all game will win you more games.

Just ask any NBA coach how important it is to have your best players there all the time, and how important it is that they play major minutes.

Embiid and Jokic have played as many as 35 min/g in a season just once. Antetokounmpo hasn't played more than 33 min/g in 5 years. Over 11 seasons Malone averaged playing 38 min/g.

If you want to pick just a few of those 11 seasons as Malone's "peak" you have your choice - he was as great at the age of say 33/34 as he was at the age of 26/27, playing pretty much every game and more minutes than the vast majority of players.

[AEnigma]

Mikal Bridges led the league in minutes the past two years, and did so last year with 2600 minutes played, so naturally the conclusion should be that Karl Malone would be playing 12% more than any other player in the league.

[No-more-rings]

I’m not sure why you’re talking about career achievements when the thread is about peak.

I’m not sure why you’re talking about career achievements when the thread is about peak.

Malone played 19 years in the league. He was all-NBA 1st team 11 times. Those are his peak years.

Or don't you think being named all-NBA 1st team is a peak year for a player?

Over those 11 seasons he averaged playing 3100+ minutes per 82 games (37-41 min/g), and he missed just 5 regular season games over those 11 seasons. He averaged 27 pts/g shooting quite well with very good offensive efficiency, averaged 11 reb/g, was a very good defender.

I'll take that in a heartbeat over players like Antetokounmpo, Jokic, or Embiid who miss games and don't play major minutes. They're all great players but the one that can be counted on to be there every game and all game will win you more games.

Just ask any NBA coach how important it is to have your best players there all the time, and how important it is that they play major minutes.

Embiid and Jokic have played as many as 35 min/g in a season just once. Antetokounmpo hasn't played more than 33 min/g in 5 years. Over 11 seasons Malone averaged playing 38 min/g.

If you want to pick just a few of those 11 seasons as Malone's "peak" you have your choice - he was as great at the age of say 33/34 as he was at the age of 26/27, playing pretty much every game and more minutes than the vast majority of players.

Malone wouldn’t be playing 39 mpg in today’s league either, I’m not sure how that’s an argument.

You’re going way beyond what peak is supposed to mean with this “11 seasons” stuff. Of course Malone has had more value over their careers, but if you ask who was bettter and more likely to take your team to a title, no Malone would not be a better choice than Giannis or Jokic.

[AleksandarN]

Where would peak Malone rank in today's league overall?

Alongside RKelly

[kcktiny]

Malone wouldn’t be playing 39 mpg in today’s league either

Is that a fact.

I suppose he wouldn't be playing in every game either, despite the fact that he pretty much did during his entire career, even into his late 30s.

You’re going way beyond what peak is supposed to mean with this “11 seasons” stuff.

Fine, you pick which of his seasons were his peak.

Of course Malone has had more value over their careers

Again with the careers. No one here has mentioned a player's career other than you.

but if you ask who was bettter and more likely to take your team to a title, no Malone would not be a better choice than Giannis or Jokic.

Easy call for Giannis as he has a title.

But what has Jokic ever done?? In 7 seasons he hasn't gotten to a Finals and to just one WCF. Malone went to 2 Finals, lost both times to arguably the best ever player in league history, no shame in that. Compared to that Jokic has done literally nothing. Malone is a far better choice than Jokic.

[HeartBreakKid]

Malone wouldn’t be playing 39 mpg in today’s league either

Is that a fact.

I suppose he wouldn't be playing in every game either, despite the fact that he pretty much did during his entire career, even into his late 30s.

You’re going way beyond what peak is supposed to mean with this “11 seasons” stuff.

Fine, you pick which of his seasons were his peak.

Of course Malone has had more value over their careers

Again with the careers. No one here has mentioned a player's career other than you.

but if you ask who was bettter and more likely to take your team to a title, no Malone would not be a better choice than Giannis or Jokic.

Easy call for Giannis as he has a title.

But what has Jokic ever done?? In 7 seasons he hasn't gotten to a Finals and to just one WCF. Malone went to 2 Finals, lost both times to arguably the best ever player in league history, no shame in that. Compared to that Jokic has done literally nothing. Malone is a far better choice than Jokic.

It's a fact that 2023 is different from the time Karl Malone played. So unless you think coaching hasn't changed at all or you think Malone will be a player-coach he probably is not 40 minutes per game for every single game of the year.

[jazzfan1971]

Peak Malone would probably be in Healthy Zion range. Where ever that is.

I think his game suffers some in the modern NBA.