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Post#41 » by Basketball Jesus » Fri Oct 12, 2007 12:41 pm

HeavyP wrote:Lets say we pay arod 32 million a year for 8 years. We can essentially pay for his salary by 1 finding a taker ANYWHERE for Sexson (14 million), Not Resigning Vidro (8.5M option I believe), Weaver leaving (8.5 million freed up). That's 31 million freed up right there. We can then NOT resign guillen, and start Jones and Balentien. I know we don't want to start two Rookies in the OF, but if it's worth it to get Arod.


:o


Holy sh*t. I love this idea. Cut the contract down to $30MM/5yr and you have a legit winner. Not only do you excise some of the old mediocrities from the team thus allowing your youngsters to get some major league PT but you also get a HoF player to keep them in contention.

This dude for Mariners GM.
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Post#42 » by Ex-hippie » Fri Oct 12, 2007 2:55 pm

I'm definitely on board with ARod if he wants to come back. Let's just say, however, we're not his choice. And let's face it, he's going to the high bidder, be it the Yankees or the Cubs or the Yomiuri Giants. Here's a modest, attainable plan for the offseason.

1. Trade Sexson, a mid-level prospect and $5 million to Detroit for Chris Shelton. (Obviously a salary dump; the prospect is the equivalent of the late first-round picks the Suns gave the Sonics to take Kurt Thomas.)

2. Re-sign Broussard for 3 years, $15 million.

3. Trade Wladimir Balentien to Atlanta for Kelly Johnson. Make Johnson the starting second baseman.

4. Sign Adam Dunn to a 6-year, $100 million contract (average $16.67 million per year, starting at $15 million in 2008).

5. Decline the team option on Weaver; non-tender Horacio Ramirez. Wave bye-bye to Reitsma and Rhodes.

6. Decline the team option on Guillen. I had thought it was a player option, but the page that Basketball Jesus linked says it's a team option with a $500k buyout.

7. Sign Jason Jennings for 3 years, $18 million ($5.5. the first year, then $6m, then $6.5m). Slight discount based on the lousy year he just had. Maybe give him some incentives. Figure he'll be happy not to pitch in Coors Field or Minute Maid Park or any other stadium named after a beverage.

The 2008 lineup (batting L/R/S)

1. Ichiro cf (L)
2. K. Johnson 2b (L)
3. A. Jones rf (R)
4. A. Dunn dh (L)
5. A. Beltre 3b (R)
6. R. Ibanez lf (L)
7. K. Johjima c (R)
8. B. Broussard 1b (L)
9. Y. Betancourt ss (R)

Position backups (batting L/R/S)
J. Clement c (L)
J. Lopez 2b-ss (R)
J. Vidro 2b-of-util (maybe 3b?) (S)
C. Shelton 1b-dh (R)
W. Bloomquist util (R)

2008 starting rotation (throwing L/R)
1. F. Hernandez (R)
2. J. Washburn (L)
3. M. Batista (R)
4. J. Jennings (R)
5. Competition: R. Rowland-Smith (L), R. Feierabend (L), C. Baek (R), B. Morrow (R). Most losers go to the bullpen.

Here's what I figure the roster will look like, with 2008 salaries. Salary figures with question marks after them mean I'm just guessing. They tend to be small numbers, though, so the errors won't make much difference.

Pitchers
C. Baek 400,000 (?)
M. Batista 9,000,000
R. Feierabend 350,000 (?)
F. Hernandez 500,000 (?)
J. Jennings 5,500,000
B. Morrow 400,000 (?)
E. O'Flaherty 500,000 (?)
J. Putz 3,400,000
R. Rowland-Smith 350,000 (?)
G. Sherrill 750,000
J. Washburn 10,000,000

Catchers
J. Clement 350,000
K. Johjima 5,200,000

Infielders
A. Beltre 12,000,000
Y. Betancourt 1,250,000
W. Bloomquist 950,000
B. Broussard 5,000,000
K. Johnson 750,000 (?)
J. Lopez 500,000
C. Shelton 400,000 (?)

Outfielders
R. Ibanez 5,500,000
A. Dunn 15,000,000
A. Jones 400,000 (?)
I. Suzuki 17,000,000
J. Vidro 8,500,000

Other salary obligations
R. Sexson trade to Detroit 5,000,000
J. Guillen buyout 500,000

Total 2008 payroll: $109,450,000
Compared to total 2007 opening day payroll: $106,460,833

After 2008, Johjima, Vidro, Ibanez and Bloomquist come off the books, freeing up just under $20 million of annual payroll. With luck, Johjima can be replaced by Clement. Ibanez will have to be re-signed or replaced with a comparably paid player. We can replace Vidro or Bloomquist with something much cheaper. That means we'll have somewhere around $10 million to play with in the offseason.

2009 will be the big year of financial freedom, as Washburn, Batista and Beltre expire and free up over $30 million of annual payroll. We'll need to hold onto a good chunk of the money we save on those players to re-sign people like Felix and Putz to long-term deals. Hopefully we won't need to spend the money to replace our expiring contracts -- at that time we'll see where we are with the likes of Chris Tillman, the losers of the '07 rotation battle and Carlos Triunfel.

It can be done.
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Post#43 » by Basketball Jesus » Fri Oct 12, 2007 3:39 pm

hippie wrote:1. Trade Sexson, a mid-level prospect and $5 million to Detroit for Chris Shelton. (Obviously a salary dump; the prospect is the equivalent of the late first-round picks the Suns gave the Sonics to take Kurt Thomas.)


Quick opinion, as it has nothing to with this deal per se, but the Pirates have a potential logjam at 1B this upcoming season with LaRoche as the projected starter and Steven Pearce
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Post#44 » by BlackMamba » Fri Oct 12, 2007 3:47 pm

of course i love the ARod idea, honestly, who doesn't?

i'm not so sure about dunn, but getting jennings would be great.


also, i know mclaren is the coach, but i don't know, just a tought, how would torre do as a mariner?
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Post#45 » by Ex-hippie » Fri Oct 12, 2007 4:00 pm

Basketball Jesus wrote:Quick opinion, as it has nothing to with this deal per se, but the Pirates have a potential logjam at 1B this upcoming season with LaRoche as the projected starter and Steven Pearce
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Post#46 » by Basketball Jesus » Fri Oct 12, 2007 4:17 pm

Re Dunn: It
Manocad wrote:The universe is the age it is. We can all agree it's 13 billion years old, and nothing changes. We can all agree it's 6000 years old, and nothing changes. We can all disagree on how old it is, and nothing changes. Some people really need a hobby.
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Post#47 » by Sweezo » Fri Oct 12, 2007 4:36 pm

hippie wrote:I'm definitely on board with ARod if he wants to come back. Let's just say, however, we're not his choice. And let's face it, he's going to the high bidder, be it the Yankees or the Cubs or the Yomiuri Giants.


Hyperbole noted, but will money be the only motive for were A-Rod signs? He's got more money than he could possibly ever spend, and the last time he signed a giant contract thinking solely about financial details he ended up rotting in Texas and then playing in front of a NY fan base that seemed to want him dead for some reason.

He's older and more mature now...I gotta think happiness is high on his wish list, and he'll get paid where ever he goes.
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Post#48 » by Ex-hippie » Fri Oct 12, 2007 4:59 pm

Sweezo wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
Hyperbole noted, but will money be the only motive for were A-Rod signs? He's got more money than he could possibly ever spend, and the last time he signed a giant contract thinking solely about financial details he ended up rotting in Texas and then playing in front of a NY fan base that seemed to want him dead for some reason.

He's older and more mature now...I gotta think happiness is high on his wish list, and he'll get paid where ever he goes.


When Scott Boras is your agent, you are sending a signal to the market: "Pay me." Don't bother me with crap about quality of life or picking the right fit or anything like that.

Here in New York, I think the vast majority of fans realize that he's critical to their future success, and want him to stay. The (Please Use More Appropriate Word) blowhards are the minority, but they get a lot of attention just for being (Please Use More Appropriate Word) blowhards. Most fans will be very appreciative if he chooses not to opt out of his contract. Other factors make New York attractive as well: it's still a situation where he can win, obviously. And the strip clubs in New York are some of the best anywhere. But Boras is advising him to opt out and try to make north of $30 million per year. He's going to the high bidder, period.
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Post#49 » by Ex-hippie » Fri Oct 12, 2007 5:05 pm

Basketball Jesus wrote:Re Dunn: It
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Post#50 » by Basketball Jesus » Fri Oct 12, 2007 5:20 pm

Three true outcome players are usually "old man skills" players since with the prodigious power usually comes the increase in strikeouts. They're not always the same but for the most part they are.
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Post#51 » by Bulltalk » Fri Oct 12, 2007 6:13 pm

Hey! People are seriously ignoring my point here. :evil:

Given that ARod is going to get seismic bucks whereever he signs, why would he choose to play at Safeco Field? This guy is seriously pursuing the all time home run record. There can be no doubt about this. Safeco Field is simply not a home run hitter's park, especially a right handed hitter.

How many home runs would he miss out on at Safeco Field that would be home runs in a place like Wrigley Field? A lot. He would be playing 81 games a year at Safeco Field.

Do you honestly think this wouldn't be a big consideration to ARod?
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Post#52 » by Basketball Jesus » Fri Oct 12, 2007 6:59 pm

Eh, Yankee stadium had that same stigma and it didn
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Post#53 » by Basketball Jesus » Fri Oct 12, 2007 7:31 pm

Somebody brought this up in a BP chat the other day but the Brewers could possibly be persuaded to part with Bill Hall for the right price. Hall could feasibly slide over to second and provide a nice bat. He was somewhat hit unlucky this past season (LD% + .120 = .351 projected BABIP, to his actual .326 as well as a decreased HR/FB ratio) and he
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Post#54 » by Ex-hippie » Fri Oct 12, 2007 7:40 pm

I like Bill Hall. Dave Bush, too. Would be tempted to go after both.

EDIT: I should add that Hall suffers from Vidro-Johnson Syndrome: he's only valuable if he can play in the middle infield.
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Post#55 » by Basketball Jesus » Fri Oct 12, 2007 7:52 pm

I dunno, hippie. A guy that's one year removed from a .293 EqA and 35 HR at age 26 could play well at almost position for the Mariners.

That's sad, kinda.
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Post#56 » by Ex-hippie » Fri Oct 12, 2007 8:35 pm

Basketball Jesus wrote:I dunno, hippie. A guy that's one year removed from a .293 EqA and 35 HR at age 26 could play well at almost position for the Mariners.

That's sad, kinda.


What to do, what to do. Richie Sexson is also one year removed from a 34 HR season.

Hall is still at his peak age, unlike Sexson, but I wouldn't count on those numbers again. Maybe somewhere between his 2006 and 2007 levels. (2007: 14 HR, .251 EqA.) Say he splits the difference and hits 25 homers with a .272 EqA -- which makes him an okay outfielder and a good middle infielder.

Again, I like Hall, and I'd definitely be interested in pursuing him. What could tempt Milwaukee? Off the top of my head, I can't think of any real weaknesses. They've got Sheets, Gallardo, Suppan, Capuano, and Bush (if we don't go after him too) in the rotation, Cordero and Turnbow in the pen, Brian Shouse, Villanueva, maybe some others I'm forgetting. Around the horn I guess it's Estrada, Fielder, Weeks, Hardy, Braun. I'm guessing they continue to stick with Weeks, who came on strong after some early struggles; everybody else seems set, unless they think they can do better than Estrada at catcher. In the OF it's Hart, Jenkins, Kevin "Uber" Mench, Young Tony Gwynn, I think Laynce Nix is still alive... maybe they could use an outfielder? Middle infield depth as insurance for Weeks (I think Counsell is finished and Graffanino might be close)? Seems like the guy they want is someone who can be flexible and fill in as an outfielder or play some middle infield as needed -- hey, that's Bill Hall. I don't know.
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Post#57 » by PhilipNelsonFan » Fri Oct 12, 2007 9:20 pm

Basketball Jesus wrote:Holy sh*t. I love this idea. Cut the contract down to $30MM/5yr and you have a legit winner. Not only do you excise some of the old mediocrities from the team thus allowing your youngsters to get some major league PT but you also get a HoF player to keep them in contention.

This dude for Mariners GM.


Even before making that post, HeavyP was better than Bavasi.

I'd love A-Rod back regardless of how Mariners fans feel about him. Let's be honest, most Mariners fans have blunt nostalgic pangs for Griffey and Randy Johnson, only now A-Rod is the best player in the game. I didn't really know how feasible HeavyP's idea was; I need to read the MLB CBA.

I have an absolute man-crush on Bill Hall and would love to have him play in the middle infield. Also, I know this is a real stretch, but the Mariners should put out feelers for Akinori Iwamura. God knows the Devil Rays are loaded with infield/athlete prospects and God knows where the Mariners would play him, but if Jose Vidro can have a career year as a DH so can Iwamura or Beltre.

I'm torn on Jose Guillen. I absolutely hated the signing, but he showed some real signs of life and I'd be really interested to see if he could play, well, DH for us next year. He's only a one-year stopgap, but as part of a platoon he could have a real impact.
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Post#58 » by PhilipNelsonFan » Fri Oct 12, 2007 9:23 pm

Also, if we're getting someone from the Tigers for Sexy, let it be Jordan Tata or Jair Jurrjens. Please.

Compiling some of these ideas, we could conceivably have this as our team:

OF: Bill Hall
OF: Ichiro
OF: Adam Jones
3B: Beltre
SS: A-Rod
2B: Betancourt
1B: Iwamura
C: Johjima
DH: Guillen

Bench: Wlad the Impaler, Broussard, Burke Clement, a couple other players

SP: King Felix
SP: Washburn
SP: Batista
SP: Baek/Your name here
SP: Jurrjens (:pray:)

RP: Putz, Sherrill, Lowe, O'Flaherty, Rowland-Smith, Morrow, more of the anonymous bunch
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Post#59 » by Ex-hippie » Fri Oct 12, 2007 10:06 pm

PhilipNelsonFan wrote:Also, if we're getting someone from the Tigers for Sexy, let it be Jordan Tata or Jair Jurrjens. Please.


Just for the record, the idea wasn't really that we'd get much of anything back from the Tigers. I'm not that high on Shelton -- I'm penciling him in as just a pinch-hitter, after all. It's 99% salary dump. If I can continue my analogy to the Kurt Thomas trade, Shelton would be in the role of the second-round pick the Sonics gave up. Getting back more than a token was never part of the plan. But if they can swing it, great.
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Post#60 » by Bulltalk » Fri Oct 12, 2007 11:02 pm

Basketball Jesus wrote:Eh, Yankee stadium had that same stigma and it didn
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