Most Overrated Player in the Top 10

[WarriorGM]

I still marvel at how high people are on Magic. When Magic was clearly in charge of his team which was a superteam of his era he barely won over the upstart Bad Boy Pistons and never conclusively proved his Lakers were better. Now the Pistons were a great team but given the results how can one say Magic is much better than Isiah Thomas?

More pts, asts, rebs, wins, rings. And thats with retiring early

You're going to go by box score numbers now? I wonder how many other players who are candidates for the top ten Magic has beat then?

Isiah played the same number of years as Magic and has the same number of rings with Dumars as arguably his best teammate while Magic had Worthy as arguably his best teammate.

[ThunderBolt]

You could argue Shaq was the most dominant but the least skilled.

[MavsDirk41]

Heyo, it's Oha-yo

Good points. But also... Lebron's better at basketball:

As for pushing square pegs in round holes...

Rim:

Reality:

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Reality:


Getting back to things that actually happened

Lebron has
• Beat 2 teams better than anyone Jordan vanquished with less help than Jordan had between 1990 and 1998
• Beat a 73-win team with less help than Jordan had between 1990 and 1998
• Led multiple 60-win teams with less help than Jordan has ever played with
• Swept multiple 60-win teams with less help than Jordan has ever played with
• Swept a healthier variant of the 1989 Cavs with less help than Jordan has ever played with

Lebron also
• Dominates Jordan in winning-based data/impact analysis
• Matches Jordan in box-aggregates(leads in playoffs, trails in regular season) despite a systematic defensive bias towards steal-accumulators
• Has a MVP win(2013) more dominant than any of Mike's(1 vote away from unanimous)
• Has 3 of the 4 most dominant MVP wins between the two(2013, 1996, 2009, 2010)
• Has 3 MVP wins more dominant than anything pre-expansion MJ managed
• Won all 4 MVP's in a 5-year span(Jordan won 3 in 6 before winning 2 more against 30+ comp post-prime)
• Has the most MVP votes of anyone ever
• Has more all-nba and 1st team all-nba appearances than anyone else
• Has led all-nba voting more times than anyone else

AND ALSO
• Is better at basketball

Hope that helps

PS: The answer to the thread title is obviously Mikey

I can post a bunch of stuff

Post or don't post. There is no "can". Don't tag me if all you got is a bluff

Ok ill play. Since you made this Jordan vs James lets go:

Offense: Jordan won 10 scoring titles and has the highest scoring average points per game in the regular season and postseason. He could attack the basket, post up, mid range game all day, and he was an 85% free throw shooter. Only weakness was he was never a great 3pt shooter but he never needed it. He was a more dynamic, consistent, and better offensive player than James.

Defense: Jordan won a DPOY award and was selected to the all nba defense team 9 times in his career. He also led the league in steals 3 years. Even when he was old with the Wizards he gave effort defensively. James never won a DPOY, has less all defense selections, and hasnt given much effort defensively in years so he can conserve his effort for offense. Jordan was the better defender.

Leadership: Jordan maybe was an ass of a teammate sometimes but he stayed with the Bulls his entire career minus his two years with the Wizards when he was old. You could count on the guy to show up as he played the full 82 games i think 9 times in his career ( its late and im too lazy to look it up but i think its 9). James has switched teams multiple times seeking better opportunities and has pressured the front office to trade players for all star players (just recently Davis and Westbrook). How does that make his teammates feel?

Klutch: give me Jordan over James all day for the last shot of the game. Make or miss the guy is not afraid to take the shot. Last time i saw James with the ball in his hands with the clock running down in a tied game, he drove to the basket and instead of taking thd shot or getting fouled he passed out to Carmelo for a 3.

Jordan has also accomplished more in fewer years. He 3 peated twice. A feat that is very rare in the nba. Jordan also was never outplayed by one of his teammates in the finals, or played as poorly as James did in the 2011 finals.
Finally the eye test. Im pretty sure between you and me, im the only one who has watched both careers. There is something to watching a guys career compared to looking up a players stats or watching a game on youtube.

[70sFan]

I still marvel at how high people are on Magic. When Magic was clearly in charge of his team which was a superteam of his era he barely won over the upstart Bad Boy Pistons and never conclusively proved his Lakers were better. Now the Pistons were a great team but given the results how can one say Magic is much better than Isiah Thomas?

More pts, asts, rebs, wins, rings. And thats with retiring early

You're going to go by box score numbers now? I wonder how many other players who are candidates for the top ten Magic has beat then?

Isiah played the same number of years as Magic and has the same number of rings with Dumars as arguably his best teammate while Magic had Worthy as arguably his best teammate.

So Isiah = Curry confirmed? After all, Curry has the same number of rings with Green as arguably his best teammate while Thomas has the same number of rings with Dumars as arguably his best teammate .

[Masigond]

For me, the most overrated of the top 10 is Tim Duncan. He has a lower career scoring average than Magic, and has about the same efficiency as Kobe (.551 - .550).

So we're punishing players for longevity? Magic Johnson played only 906 games (actually 874 before his first retirement due to his HIV infection), scoring 19.5 ppg. Tim Duncan scored 21.4 ppg over the course of his first 899 regular season games (before adding another 7 seasons with lower scoring averages).

Please explain how playing additional seasons seems to change the value of a player's output completed long before...

[WarriorGM]

More pts, asts, rebs, wins, rings. And thats with retiring early

You're going to go by box score numbers now? I wonder how many other players who are candidates for the top ten Magic has beat then?

Isiah played the same number of years as Magic and has the same number of rings with Dumars as arguably his best teammate while Magic had Worthy as arguably his best teammate.

So Isiah = Curry confirmed? After all, Curry has the same number of rings with Green as arguably his best teammate while Thomas has the same number of rings with Dumars as arguably his best teammate .

Isiah was winning as many rings as Magic during Magic's peak, who has been winning as many rings as Curry during his?

[70sFan]

You're going to go by box score numbers now? I wonder how many other players who are candidates for the top ten Magic has beat then?

Isiah played the same number of years as Magic and has the same number of rings with Dumars as arguably his best teammate while Magic had Worthy as arguably his best teammate.

So Isiah = Curry confirmed? After all, Curry has the same number of rings with Green as arguably his best teammate while Thomas has the same number of rings with Dumars as arguably his best teammate .

Isiah was winning as many rings as Magic during Magic's peak, who has been winning as many rings as Curry during his?

LeBron won two rings during Kerr era, which is the same amount of rings Curry has without Durant.

Why do you act like 1985 isn't Magic peak by the way?

[Wolfgang630]

Tim Duncan overrated LMAO

[WarriorGM]

So Isiah = Curry confirmed? After all, Curry has the same number of rings with Green as arguably his best teammate while Thomas has the same number of rings with Dumars as arguably his best teammate .

Isiah was winning as many rings as Magic during Magic's peak, who has been winning as many rings as Curry during his?

LeBron won two rings during Kerr era, which is the same amount of rings Curry has without Durant.

Why do you act like 1985 isn't Magic peak by the way?

So Magic-Isiah finds its analogue in Steph-LeBron.

Because Kareem was still better in the finals.

[DrCoach]

I still marvel at how high people are on Magic. When Magic was clearly in charge of his team which was a superteam of his era he barely won over the upstart Bad Boy Pistons and never conclusively proved his Lakers were better. Now the Pistons were a great team but given the results how can one say Magic is much better than Isiah Thomas?

More pts, asts, rebs, wins, rings. And thats with retiring early

You're going to go by box score numbers now? I wonder how many other players who are candidates for the top ten Magic has beat then?

Isiah played the same number of years as Magic and has the same number of rings with Dumars as arguably his best teammate while Magic had Worthy as arguably his best teammate.

Yes stats matter

But clearly you dont understand them because you think Magic and Isaiah have the same amount of rings

[70sFan]

Isiah was winning as many rings as Magic during Magic's peak, who has been winning as many rings as Curry during his?

LeBron won two rings during Kerr era, which is the same amount of rings Curry has without Durant.

Why do you act like 1985 isn't Magic peak by the way?

So Magic-Isiah finds its analogue in Steph-LeBron.

Because Kareem was still better in the finals.

Curry had many series when his teammates were better than him, it doesn't disqualify him from being the best player on his team.

I'm glad you agree that Thomas is on Curry level then.

[165bows]

Kareem.

[Optms]

Glad to see Kobe was not in the vote, coz he is at 11th all time ranking.

Kobe would have won the vote if he was though.

Kobe is actually underrated. You calling him overrated even though he literately isn't on this or most people's top 10's pretty much proves it. If this was still 2006 when fans including the media were calling him top 3 all time, maybe.

[Optms]

On RealGM it’s easily Tim Duncan.

The only player who keeps getting ranked higher and higher despite being retired for years. I'm not sure when he surpassed Magic and Bird but it for sure wasn't during his prime. Now he's "just outside the GOAT" conversation. haha he's going to be the GOAT on here sometime in the next 10 years. Book it.

[Sedale Threatt]

I still marvel at how high people are on Magic. When Magic was clearly in charge of his team which was a superteam of his era he barely won over the upstart Bad Boy Pistons and never conclusively proved his Lakers were better. Now the Pistons were a great team but given the results how can one say Magic is much better than Isiah Thomas?

More pts, asts, rebs, wins, rings. And thats with retiring early

You're going to go by box score numbers now? I wonder how many other players who are candidates for the top ten Magic has beat then?

Isiah played the same number of years as Magic and has the same number of rings with Dumars as arguably his best teammate while Magic had Worthy as arguably his best teammate.

And advanced metrics. And individual accolades. And championships. And pretty much every other possible way you can assess a player. Isiah has zero case. If you want to argue Magic's place among the Top 10, as is the point of the thread, fine. These are all legends among legends and the competition is fierce. Your boy has a really good argument, for example, and he's not even a consensus choice. But freaking Isiah? They were on completely different tiers.

[CharityStripe34]

Strange topic. It's not like if someone is ranked #5, for example, that actually being ranked #8 or whatever is some mega demotion.

[E-Balla]

Based off the OP's rankings it's Wilt. He's barely in my top 10

[FlyingArrow]

Gotta go with Jordan. He's obviously the best of the 90s and among the best ever, but so many people have him as the GOAT with no debate allowed. Of course there's debate.

[Johnny Tomala]

On RealGM it’s easily Tim Duncan.

The only player who keeps getting ranked higher and higher despite being retired for years. I'm not sure when he surpassed Magic and Bird but it for sure wasn't during his prime. Now he's "just outside the GOAT" conversation. haha he's going to be the GOAT on here sometime in the next 10 years. Book it.

Yup. I have Magic, Bird, Hakeem ahead of Duncan. Jordan, KAJ, Russell, LBJ and Wilt too obviously. 9th all time is the highest I can rate Duncan. Shaq is 10th.

[OhayoKD]

For me, the most overrated of the top 10 is Tim Duncan. He has a lower career scoring average than Magic, and has about the same efficiency as Kobe (.551 - .550).

Who has Duncan inside top 10 because of his scoring...?

Nobody, but that doesn't mean scoring isn't important.

Duncan being the most consistent winner since Russell would suggest it's not nearly as important as you think it is