Scoot Henderson

[BostonCouchGM]

I think Scoot took the easiest path forward to make the money and to play the least amount to lessen the chance for a serious injury. His stats don't really matter to me but him lacking that competitive fire does. I DO think that if he had played in college he would have absolutely dominated and won player of the year with ease. That is how talented he is. So him not lighting it up in his league doesn't really phase me.

[Hal14]

I mean are we really doing this whole teenager Net Rating from the G League thing right now?

Jalen Green's Net Rating in the G League was -7.7
Kuminga's Net Rating in the G League was -6.2

Its not currently showing last year's advanced stats, but Im sure Dyson Daniels had a negative Net Rating as well. And Im going to go out on a limb and predict Matas Buzelis will have a negative Net Rating next year.

Its almost like a young straight out of high school focused G League team is going to struggle against other G League teams. Crazy to think about...

Daniels is listed in my post above.

Ya but those arent the accurate ones. Also it would just go to my point, none of these prospects have positive Net Ratings when they play for Ignite. Ignite is at such a talent disadvantage against the majority of the rest of the G League that these guys advanced numbers like Net Rating look horrible. I dont recall Dyson Daniels negative Net Rating being talked about last year.

This just seems like such a weird thing to bring up when you look into the entire context of it all. I highly doubt any of the top 5 teams in the draft this year will care at all what Scoot's Net Rating was this year.

How aren't they accurate?

None of them have a positive net rating but a -3 net rating is sure as hell better than a -24.

You say Ignite is up against such a huge talent disadvantage. But Ignite went 11-13 this season in games Scoot played 10+ minutes. 11-13 is not that bad of a record. Only a game under .500. You make it seem like they're a horrible team that went 4-20.

And if Ignite is really at such a huge talent disadvantage, well then you're admitting Ignite doesn't have much talent - then why are we talking about their PG going #2 in the draft? If he's really a superstar like people on here are saying, surely his team could be at least a few games over .500 and surely he could have a net rating of better than -20.

I'm not sure if anyone brought up Daniels negative net rating last year. But his net rating was also much better than Scoot's. Daniels had a -8.6 net rating and was the 8th pick in the draft. Scoot's net rating is -20.6, yet we're talking about him going #2 overall.

These are only Ignite players. With net rating, PER and TS%. Ranked in order of net rating, from best to worst:
Marjon Beauchamp -3.7 14.2 59.1
Leonard Miller -3.8 19.8 63.3
Dyson Daniels -8.6 8.4 50
John Jenkins -11.4 16.5 61.9
Michael Foster Jr -11.6 15.8 55.2
Pooh Jeter -15.6 12.1 58.7
Sidy Cissoko -18.7 10.8 57.6
Scoot Henderson -20.6 14.7 54.9
Mojave King -21.6 8.9 54.8
Jaden Hardy -24.3 9.9 50

Yes, they all have a negative net rating. But out of 10 players, Scoot is 8th in net rating, he's 4th in PER and he's 7th in TS%. None of these other guys were even picked in the top 7. If Scoot is a top 2 pick, you'd think he'd be at least top 3 on Ignite in Net rating.

[Braggins]

I mean are we really doing this whole teenager Net Rating from the G League thing right now?

Jalen Green's Net Rating in the G League was -7.7
Kuminga's Net Rating in the G League was -6.2

Its not currently showing last year's advanced stats, but Im sure Dyson Daniels had a negative Net Rating as well. And Im going to go out on a limb and predict Matas Buzelis will have a negative Net Rating next year.

Its almost like a young straight out of high school focused G League team is going to struggle against other G League teams. Crazy to think about...

The way people are talking about his production makes me feel like I'm on crazy pills lol. I'm not sure how everyone decided that pre-NBA Ignite prospects are supposed to drop an efficient 25 ppg with positive impact metrics in the GLeague when literally every single one of them so far has been basically bad and all have worse stats than Scoot. Some of the goofier stuff in this thread I expect on here, but its basically become the dominant mainstream narrative that he had a bad season for a GLeague Ignite prospect.

Jalen Green was selected #2 overall in a good draft based entirely on his scoring potential. Scoot has had a slightly worse scoring season, while posting 7.7 assists per 75 possessions (more than double Green) and basically a 2/1 assist/to ratio. Green was likely drafted at least a little too high, but Scoot's predraft resume is also very obviously better by a solid margin and their draft age is pretty much the same.

I'm also totally cool with people having Miller over Scoot fwiw

[clyde21]

i don't remember Minga, Green or Daniels' NRTG being brought up the last couple of years, this thread continues to show some really anti-Scoot bias happening right now on multiple levels

Ignite is full of 18/19 yrs olds, it's the straight from HS development team in the development league, completely meaningless

also weird how Scoot's "competitive fire" gets brought up here but it doesn't for the Twins who chose to go play against HSers in the OTE instead.

[The-Power]

Ya but those arent the accurate ones.

How aren't they accurate?

None of them have a positive net rating but a -3 net rating is sure as hell better than a -24.

Okay, let's try it a different way. What do you think the net rating you cited means? I'm not asking for interpretation of results. I'm asking what you believe it measures.

[mattao313]

i don't remember Minga, Green or Daniels' NRTG being brought up the last couple of years, this thread continues to show some really anti-Scoot bias happening right now on multiple levels

Ignite is full of 18/19 yrs olds, it's the straight from HS development team in the development league, completely meaningless

also weird how Scoot's "competitive fire" gets brought up here but it doesn't for the Twins who chose to go play against HSers in the OTE instead.

Meh it's definitely a few here who have the Thompson twins lower in the lottery because of the sus league they played in. Also they weren't hyped up being locked at 2 like scoot was.

A few months ago people were acting like he was the second coming of Derrick Rose.

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[Hal14]

Those are boxscore-derived metrics and not actual on-court ratings. If you want on-court ratings, you must go to the respective G-League stats section and select ‘advanced’.

So we're no longer allowed to use offensive rating and defensive rating? I just too offensive rating - defensive rating to get each player's net rating. Not saying it's an end all, be all metric. Just trying to see a rough idea of what each player contributes to winning basketball.

I also included TS% and PER and listed like 12 players and their g league stats.

That's not what you're doing though. What you have cited are NOT on-court ratings. What you cited are boxscore-based metrics that don't inform you about impact. I posted the on-court ratings and the resulting net ratings that I think you actually meant to use.

You posted a link that only showed 19 games for Scoot. Scoot played 25 games. I'm not going off an incomplete data set.

I'm not saying that offensive rating and defensive rating all the be all, end all metric. But they are commonly used metrics that people use to calculate the player's value on a particular end of the court.

And by taking the offensive rating and subtracting the defensive rating, you're essentially combining those 2 stats together, to see how good the player is on both ends of the court, no?

[JMAC3]

Whether you value the Orating or Drating it is just a data point. Nobody is saying they are moving him down their board singularly off that, but if it is telling the same story as 5 or 6 other trends then it shouldn't be fully ignored either.

I think overall a lot of really strong points have been made about why Scoot might be a little fraudulent as a prospect. They all could be null, he might be super awesome. And by fraudulent, I mean a he isn't "generational talent", "a #1 pick in most years" etc etc... He can be just as good of a prospect as Jaden Ivey and still be both overrated and good at the same time.

On the flip side, haven't really seen that many cases for him being a super great prospect. If he didn't have his reputation and the birthright of being a top pick in every mock for the last 12 months and you just had to sell a team on drafting him first overall based on what he has done in the Gleague I feel like that would be rather difficult.

[JMAC3]

From the Ringers Draft Guide

"He’s only 6-foot-2, so he’ll be a target on defense no matter how hard he’s playing."

[Braggins]

You posted a link that only showed 19 games for Scoot. Scoot played 25 games. I'm not going off an incomplete data set.

His net rating improves when you include the 6 game showcase sample. Its -1.4 (114.4 off / 115.8 def).

https://stats.gleague.nba.com/player/1630703/?Season=2022-23&SeasonType=Combined

[clyde21]

From the Ringers Draft Guide

"He’s only 6-foot-2, so he’ll be a target on defense no matter how hard he’s playing."

literally 0 analysis behind that - "he's 6-2 so he must be bad on defense".

was that a KOC line?

[Braggins]

Scoot Henderson ~ PG ~ 6'2" 195
GLeage Ignite ~ 2/3/2004 (19.4)
per75 poss: 20.6 pts ~ 5.9 reb ~ 7.7 ast ~ 1.4 stl ~ 0.5 blk ~ 3.9 tov ~ 3.7 pf
47.2% 2pt(14.1) ~ 32.4% 3pt(3.2) ~ 75.0% ft(3.4*) ~ 55.0% ts
114.4 ORtg ~ 115.8 DRtg (-1.4 net) ~ -1.8 +/- ~ 27.7% usg ~ 1.98 ast/tov
* ~ GLeague shoot 1 ft worth 2 pts until last 2 minutes
(25 game sample: regular season + showcase)

[Big J]

No one questions the twins competitive fire because if you actually watched them you would see why. They literally play with their hair on fire.

[Hal14]

Scoot Henderson ~ PG ~ 6'2" 195
GLeage Ignite ~ 2/3/2004 (19.4)
per75 poss: 20.6 pts ~ 5.9 reb ~ 7.7 ast ~ 1.4 stl ~ 0.5 blk ~ 3.9 tov ~ 3.7 pf
47.2% 2pt(14.1) ~ 32.4% 3pt(3.2) ~ 75.0% ft(3.4*) ~ 55.0% ts
114.4 ORtg ~ 115.8 DRtg (-1.4 net) ~ -1.8 +/- ~ 27.7% usg ~ 1.98 ast/tov
* ~ GLeague shoot 1 ft worth 2 pts until last 2 minutes
(25 game sample: regular season + showcase)

IDK where you're getting those stats. I got mine here, scrolling down to g league full season section:
https://basketball.realgm.com/player/Scoot-Henderson/Summary/151559

Offensive rating: 101.5
Defensive rating: 122.1
Net rating: -20.6

[Colbinii]

Scoot Henderson ~ PG ~ 6'2" 195
GLeage Ignite ~ 2/3/2004 (19.4)
per75 poss: 20.6 pts ~ 5.9 reb ~ 7.7 ast ~ 1.4 stl ~ 0.5 blk ~ 3.9 tov ~ 3.7 pf
47.2% 2pt(14.1) ~ 32.4% 3pt(3.2) ~ 75.0% ft(3.4*) ~ 55.0% ts
114.4 ORtg ~ 115.8 DRtg (-1.4 net) ~ -1.8 +/- ~ 27.7% usg ~ 1.98 ast/tov
* ~ GLeague shoot 1 ft worth 2 pts until last 2 minutes
(25 game sample: regular season + showcase)

IDK where you're getting those stats. I got mine here, scrolling down to g league full season section:
https://basketball.realgm.com/player/Scoot-Henderson/Summary/151559

Offensive rating: 101.5
Defensive rating: 122.1
Net rating: -20.6

You're citing an O-rating and D-rating not the same as On-court O-rating and D-rating.

[JMAC3]

From the Ringers Draft Guide

"He’s only 6-foot-2, so he’ll be a target on defense no matter how hard he’s playing."

literally 0 analysis behind that - "he's 6-2 so he must be bad on defense".

was that a KOC line?

Yeah, he could be Gary Payton Jr or Patrick Beverly on defense....

[clyde21]

From the Ringers Draft Guide

"He’s only 6-foot-2, so he’ll be a target on defense no matter how hard he’s playing."

literally 0 analysis behind that - "he's 6-2 so he must be bad on defense".

was that a KOC line?

Yeah, he could be Gary Payton Jr or Patrick Beverly on defense....

or Jrue. Or Cp3. Or Smart. Or Caruso. Or Rubio. Or Gordon. Or Jevon Carter. Or Conley.

or so many other "small guards" that are/were good defenders.

or he can be a good off-ball and team defender, like Steph, which is infinitely more important than POA perimeter defense for a guard. i don't expect KOC to think beyond the 6-2 tho, so I'm not surprised you're using Ringer as a reference point here.

[EvanZ]

Or he could be a bad defender like Lillard who has similar, if not better tools than Scoot. Assuming he's going to be an awesome defender seems foolhardy just as assuming he's going to be a complete trash defender. Truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

[JMAC3]

literally 0 analysis behind that - "he's 6-2 so he must be bad on defense".

was that a KOC line?

Yeah, he could be Gary Payton Jr or Patrick Beverly on defense....

or Jrue. Or Cp3. Or Smart. Or Caruso. Or Rubio. Or Gordon. Or Jevon Carter. Or Conley.

or so many other "small guards" that are/were good defenders.

or he can be a good off-ball and team defender, like Steph, which is infinitely more important than POA perimeter defense for a guard. i don't expect KOC to think beyond the 6-2 tho, so I'm not surprised you're using Ringer as a reference point here.

Caruso is 6-4/6-5 averages 6 ppg for his career
Smart is 6-3 or 6-4 depending on site. Averages 11 ppg
Jrue is 6-3 or 6-5 depending on site
Jevon Carter averages 5 ppg
Rubio averages 11 ppg for his career

A lot of people have mentioned it, but it is verrrrrryy rare for small guards to be good defenders, and even more rare for small guards that are offensive hubs to be good defenders. The vast majority of them are bad defenders as small guards.

The few that are good defenders are role players who don't put the ball in the hoop.

That is what makes Jrue so rare.

[Big J]

Exactly, he “could be” a great defender. Just like Westbrook “could be” a great defender. Scoot has shown a lack of awareness on that end, but we’re supposed to believe he’s going to be a plus on that end “just because”. Lol