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The Official Jaden McDaniels Thread

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Re: Jaden McDaniels thread 

Post#301 » by Note30 » Thu Mar 23, 2023 8:38 pm

Klomp wrote:
Note30 wrote:
Klomp wrote:Nope, and I don't even care that we might have to max him...


Max?! Hold up. He's good he ain't that good tho. Just let him go to RFA we'll match from there. Why the hell would we max someone we don't need to just yet.

1. 5th year.
2. Avoid the dissension Phoenix dealt with last offseason around Ayton.

If you feel you would match an offer at the same starting point, it's bad business to not just offer it straight up.

I know everyone still has Andrew Wiggins PTSD, but this isn't that.


When does the FO need to decide by?
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Re: Jaden McDaniels thread 

Post#302 » by Klomp » Thu Mar 23, 2023 8:55 pm

Note30 wrote:When does the FO need to decide by?

I believe the deadline is still end of October for those
tsherkin wrote:The important thing to take away here is that Klomp is wrong.
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Re: Jaden McDaniels thread 

Post#303 » by younggunsmn » Thu Mar 23, 2023 10:43 pm

shrink wrote:Is anyone frustrated right now that we probably had to toss in a couple picks in the Utah trade to hold onto him?


The only thing I'm frustrated about is that you keep throwing around the false equivalency that refusing to include Jaden somehow made Gobert worth 2 extra first rounders.
Utah was determined to get off his contract and we GREATLY overestimated the acquisition cost.
This was exaclty the same scenario Ainge talked about with the Garnett/Nets trade where he just kept asking for more until they finally said no.

Jaden alone was worth more than a 30 year old Gobert making 40 million dollars and with KAT's recent injury history and supermax he may soon have the 2nd highest trade value on the team after ANT.
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Re: Jaden McDaniels thread 

Post#304 » by shrink » Thu Mar 23, 2023 10:55 pm

younggunsmn wrote:
shrink wrote:Is anyone frustrated right now that we probably had to toss in a couple picks in the Utah trade to hold onto him?


The only thing I'm frustrated about is that you keep throwing around the false equivalency that refusing to include Jaden somehow made Gobert worth 2 extra first rounders.
Utah was determined to get off his contract and we GREATLY overestimated the acquisition cost.


Why do you think that? I have never seen any reporting of that.

However, I have heard several sources talking about my “false equivalency” of adding the two extra picks or McDaniels.


And it fits the price too. I view Gobert and Donovan Mitchell having similar trade value at the time of the trade.

MIN package was 3 unprotected first-rounders (2023, 2025 and 2027), plus a pick swap in 2026 and a top-five protected pick in 2029 .. and an unproven Kessler had value.

CLE package was 3 unprotected first-round picks and two pick swaps to the Utah Jazz ..and a less proven Markannen had value.

We can quibble about the value of Colin Sexton, Malik Beasley, or Jaden Vanderbilt, but none of these pieces were good headliners for a trade for NBA All Stars.


There is also plenty of reporting that Ainge wanted McDaniels. I’m saying that if we had to pay extra in picks to keep him, I’m happy we did.
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Re: Jaden McDaniels thread 

Post#305 » by Note30 » Thu Mar 23, 2023 11:14 pm

Klomp wrote:
Note30 wrote:When does the FO need to decide by?

I believe the deadline is still end of October for those


This October?!
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Re: Jaden McDaniels thread 

Post#306 » by Klomp » Thu Mar 23, 2023 11:29 pm

Note30 wrote:
Klomp wrote:
Note30 wrote:When does the FO need to decide by?

I believe the deadline is still end of October for those


This October?!

Correct. Rookie contract options and extensions are usually early in the season before they kick in. Contract extension would kick in 2024-25 season, so I believe the extension deadline is Oct 2023.
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Re: Jaden McDaniels thread 

Post#307 » by younggunsmn » Thu Mar 23, 2023 11:44 pm

shrink wrote:I view Gobert and Donovan Mitchell having similar trade value at the time of the trade.


This is your primary mistake.
Mitchell is 4 years younger, much much much more skilled, and plays a position that is much less replacable.

Markaanen and Sexton also are much better than any of Vando/Beasley/Beverly and Utah viewed them both as core pieces along with Ogjabi.

But the Gobert overpay set the market for the Mitchell deal (and future deals for players of that caliber).
Ainge basically demanded and got every available draft pick and non-core piece he desired from the Cavs.
Hey, if I can get all that for Gobert, who can't even shoot from 8 feet, I want EVERYTHING you have.
And I'll tell you this much, nobody is complaining about the Cavs end of that trade even with Markaanen blowing up.

I just think going around bragging about NOT also trading Jaden McDaniels as a silver lining to an already awful trade is really poor form.
Hey we didn't throw in ANT or KAT either, must have had to give them 5 1sts for refusing.
We also threw in Jarred Vanderbilt, on a bargain contract, when we absolutely didn't have to after already agreeing to 4 picks, Kessler, and a swap.

Utah had made the decision to blow up the team, probably even before Snyder exited.
The first order of business when rebuilding is moving your worst contract.
You don't move Mitchell to rebuild and then find out you are stuck with Gobert for 4 years.
You move Gobert first and then unload your primary asset.
You pretend you really really need to be convinced to blow up your team.

If it hadn't been us, he would have gone first to another team, Chicago or Toronto or someone else.
Those teams were smarter than us. They balked at the asking price.
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Re: Jaden McDaniels thread 

Post#308 » by Murphs56 » Fri Mar 24, 2023 2:15 am

That Shams interview with Jaden is blowing up. Finally getting some national recognition.
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Re: Jaden McDaniels thread 

Post#309 » by Klomp » Fri Mar 24, 2023 2:26 am

Murphs56 wrote:That Shams interview with Jaden is blowing up. Finally getting some national recognition.

Honestly, after the last week or so but especially the past 24 hours, I'm 100% convinced he'll make all-defense and about 80% he'll make first team.
tsherkin wrote:The important thing to take away here is that Klomp is wrong.
Esohny wrote:Why are you asking Klomp? "He's" actually a bot that posts random blurbs from a database.
Klomp wrote:I'm putting the tired in retired mod at the moment
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Re: Jaden McDaniels thread 

Post#310 » by Murphs56 » Fri Mar 24, 2023 2:57 am

Klomp wrote:
Murphs56 wrote:That Shams interview with Jaden is blowing up. Finally getting some national recognition.

Honestly, after the last week or so but especially the past 24 hours, I'm 100% convinced he'll make all-defense and about 80% he'll make first team.


It was the absolute perfect time to do the interview. The headline is obviously "I do believe I'm the best defender in the NBA." But now the voters are probably thinking, "is that true?" And now they'll actually dig in to what has made him so great this year.
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Re: Jaden McDaniels thread 

Post#311 » by MN7725 » Fri Mar 24, 2023 3:29 am

2Wai or something similar should be nickname
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Re: Jaden McDaniels thread 

Post#312 » by Note30 » Fri Mar 24, 2023 3:56 am

younggunsmn wrote:
shrink wrote:I view Gobert and Donovan Mitchell having similar trade value at the time of the trade.


This is your primary mistake.
Mitchell is 4 years younger, much much much more skilled, and plays a position that is much less replacable.

Markaanen and Sexton also are much better than any of Vando/Beasley/Beverly and Utah viewed them both as core pieces along with Ogjabi.

But the Gobert overpay set the market for the Mitchell deal (and future deals for players of that caliber).
Ainge basically demanded and got every available draft pick and non-core piece he desired from the Cavs.
Hey, if I can get all that for Gobert, who can't even shoot from 8 feet, I want EVERYTHING you have.
And I'll tell you this much, nobody is complaining about the Cavs end of that trade even with Markaanen blowing up.

I just think going around bragging about NOT also trading Jaden McDaniels as a silver lining to an already awful trade is really poor form.
Hey we didn't throw in ANT or KAT either, must have had to give them 5 1sts for refusing.
We also threw in Jarred Vanderbilt, on a bargain contract, when we absolutely didn't have to after already agreeing to 4 picks, Kessler, and a swap.

Utah had made the decision to blow up the team, probably even before Snyder exited.
The first order of business when rebuilding is moving your worst contract.
You don't move Mitchell to rebuild and then find out you are stuck with Gobert for 4 years.
You move Gobert first and then unload your primary asset.
You pretend you really really need to be convinced to blow up your team.

If it hadn't been us, he would have gone first to another team, Chicago or Toronto or someone else.
Those teams were smarter than us. They balked at the asking price.


We'll put, Mitchell is far more valuable than Gobert.
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Re: Jaden McDaniels thread 

Post#313 » by Klomp » Fri Mar 24, 2023 4:08 am

Note30 wrote:We'll put, Mitchell is far more valuable than Gobert.

Don't confuse "more valuable" with "better player"

Just like Russell is a better player than Conley, but Conley is more valuable to us
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Re: Jaden McDaniels thread 

Post#314 » by Note30 » Fri Mar 24, 2023 4:52 am

Klomp wrote:
Note30 wrote:We'll put, Mitchell is far more valuable than Gobert.

Don't confuse "more valuable" with "better player"

Just like Russell is a better player than Conley, but Conley is more valuable to us


Mitchell is both.
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Re: Jaden McDaniels thread 

Post#315 » by Kineto » Fri Mar 24, 2023 10:51 am

Note30 wrote:
Klomp wrote:
Note30 wrote:We'll put, Mitchell is far more valuable than Gobert.

Don't confuse "more valuable" with "better player"

Just like Russell is a better player than Conley, but Conley is more valuable to us


Mitchell is both.


Mitchell was a more "plug and play" player than rudy, we will see next season what it look like with a full year of practice and a more compatible lineup (conley vs russel for exemple).
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Re: Jaden McDaniels thread 

Post#316 » by shrink » Fri Mar 24, 2023 12:05 pm

Deleted. Just not worth it.
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Re: Jaden McDaniels thread 

Post#317 » by shrink » Fri Mar 24, 2023 12:25 pm

Klomp wrote:
Note30 wrote:We'll put, Mitchell is far more valuable than Gobert.

Don't confuse "more valuable" with "better player"

True. At the time of the trade, both Gobert and Mitchell had been All Stars, so in those cases, I look to All NBA voting. Gobert actually came in 16th in voting last year (15 make it, three at each position), with 45 total points. Mitchell had 4 points.

Now, people can make a case that Gobert will decline over the length of the contract, but this is unbiased evidence how Gobert is valued for his play. Gobert also came in third in Defensive Player of the Year voting last summer, after winning the award 3 times previously.
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Re: Jaden McDaniels thread 

Post#318 » by shrink » Fri Mar 24, 2023 12:40 pm

Getting back to McDaniels, it will be a real achievement for him to make an All Defense team. As I’ve looked over the end of season voting, he didn’t receive a single vote last year. Awards like this often require a player to reach the national consciousness before people think to vote for them, and this is often a problem for Minnesota players, who don’t get discussed as much without playoff success. In the past, big name players usually got these awards because national sportswriters knew them .. defensive guys like Bruce Bowen were the exception, not the rule.

However, I think that current voting is more closely scrutinized than ever before, and media voters have access to better data to determine who truly is being impactful defensively. In addition, I agree with Murphs that the timing of the interview, and quotes from Paul George, may get more voters to take notice of just how impactful McDaniels has been defensively.

It’s a tall order to go from no votes last year to top ten this season, but I think Jaden will do it.
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Re: Jaden McDaniels thread 

Post#319 » by Note30 » Fri Mar 24, 2023 2:23 pm

shrink wrote:
Klomp wrote:
Note30 wrote:We'll put, Mitchell is far more valuable than Gobert.

Don't confuse "more valuable" with "better player"

True. At the time of the trade, both Gobert and Mitchell had been All Stars, so in those cases, I look to All NBA voting. Gobert actually came in 16th in voting last year (15 make it, three at each position), with 45 total points. Mitchell had 4 points.

Now, people can make a case that Gobert will decline over the length of the contract, but this is unbiased evidence how Gobert is valued for his play. Gobert also came in third in Defensive Player of the Year voting last summer, after winning the award 3 times previously.


It doesn't matter. The reality is this year on a new team - Mitchell looks waayyy better than Gobert. In every aspect.
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Re: Jaden McDaniels thread 

Post#320 » by Note30 » Fri Mar 24, 2023 2:24 pm

shrink wrote:Getting back to McDaniels, it will be a real achievement for him to make an All Defense team. As I’ve looked over the end of season voting, he didn’t receive a single vote last year. Awards like this often require a player to reach the national consciousness before people think to vote for them, and this is often a problem for Minnesota players, who don’t get discussed as much without playoff success. In the past, big name players usually got these awards because national sportswriters knew them .. defensive guys like Bruce Bowen were the exception, not the rule.

However, I think that current voting is more closely scrutinized than ever before, and media voters have access to better data to determine who truly is being impactful defensively. In addition, I agree with Murphs that the timing of the interview, and quotes from Paul George, may get more voters to take notice of just how impactful McDaniels has been defensively.

It’s a tall order to go from no votes last year to top ten this season, but I think Jaden will do it.


Hopefully.

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