Pistons-Hawks (7:30)

[Sort]

All of this crap will be put to bed soon enough. All of it. Casey, Weaver, Hayes, all of it.

By December, which will be about 25 games into the season, we'll all know what the score is on everyone. This is the put up, or shut-up portion of this current iteration of the franchise.

If the team is 3-17 again heads are gonna roll, and we can all move on to the next new thing to harp on.

This is how I feel right now about the team too. It's an absolute mess and I just don't see Casey and/or Weaver putting it together next season outside of landing the number one pick. I think the biggest reason people keep bringing up Hayes is because there's just not much to say about this team.

The team clearly needs new direction and a more cohesive roster.

[Manocad]

Yep, Hayes has a TS% of 44.7%.
Dillon Brooks 48.8%
Russell Westbrook 50.0%
And on and on until Chris Paul clocks in at the 20th worst at 53.8%.
Sure, a 44.7% TS% sucks. But when the next worst shooter is 4.1% higher and one of the more highly regarded offensive players in the league is 5.3% higher, and the rhetoric here is "and it's not even close," it only demonstrates the clear bias.

The more this goes on the more I enjoy watching you guys being pissed about him on the team. And all the while calling Cojo a "viable NBA rotation player."

“One of the more highly regarded offensive players in the league”

I really hope this isn’t referring to 2023 Russell Westbrook

The amount of cope people have here for Killian’s efficiency is bizarre. He’s in the bottom 5 for True Shooting % in the last 20 seasons.
He’s legitimately terrible as a scorer, this shouldn’t even be debatable really, but of course it somehow is on this forum lol.

It's bizarre like this guy literally brings up other guys that are having bad efficiency seasons thinking that's a good argument. Lol can't take these guys serious.

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Wait--so now that Killian's stats are considerable as being horrible relatively speaking, other players stats should be disregarded?

Do you know how comparative stats work?

[mattao313]

“One of the more highly regarded offensive players in the league”

I really hope this isn’t referring to 2023 Russell Westbrook

The amount of cope people have here for Killian’s efficiency is bizarre. He’s in the bottom 5 for True Shooting % in the last 20 seasons.
He’s legitimately terrible as a scorer, this shouldn’t even be debatable really, but of course it somehow is on this forum lol.

It's bizarre like this guy literally brings up other guys that are having bad efficiency seasons thinking that's a good argument. Lol can't take these guys serious.

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Wait--so now that Killian's stats are considerable as being horrible relatively speaking, other players stats should be disregarded?

Do you know how comparative stats work?

You compared him to two guys with terrible efficiency. How does that change that Killian is terrible. Those guys aren't very good besides chris Paul who is having his worst statistical season, yet is still leagues better than Killian.

Your argument sucks.

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[bstein14]

Weaver very much needs to hit that 14% chance on his lottery ticket to turn things around here.... without getting a franchise level talent in the draft it's going to be hard for this team to crawl out of the bottom 3 in the East. Orlando has a better looking young core. Indy has a better looking young core. If we don't get VW, he might go to Charlotte and they might get Bridges back as well. They were a play-in team the previous two seasons before this one.

We have developed no winning culture, no playing the right way culture, no toughness culture, no defensive mindset culture.... the only culture Weaver has brought is losing and it might be harder than he realizes to just flip a switch out of that.

[NYPiston]

Its funny because you watch the Lions now with a new GM and watching the team last year, guys would play and they clearly had talent. You could see the talent and see many players had "it". They made winning plays and looked good. Talent was added.

Then you see the Pistons and Bagley, Wiseman, Bey, Stewart, Hayes, Alec Burks, RJ Hampton, Frank Jackson, Josh Jackson, KO, Garza, Dennis Smith jr, Corey Joseph, Wayne Ellington, Plumlee.

None of these guys matter. They are just throw in garbage you can get any time you want. None of them are talented and PLUS guys that would matter on a playoff team unless the other 4 were all-stars.

Weaver has no idea what talented basketball players are and how to add them to this team.

I don't see any issue with most of those adds. It's a full scale rebuild, and this season has been littered with injuries, so why not throw a bunch of reclamations in there to see what sticks. My biggest issue with the above is giving Bagley the big contract only to add Wiseman and it's either pay Wiseman and have two of the same players on the roster clogging up cap space or let him go. I like the idea of taking a chance on Wiseman in theory but with Bagley already signed for the next few years, it didn't make sense.

In any event, playtime is over for Weaver, it's time to add some real players to the roster. This reclamation project collecting should be nearing an end at this point.
Oh and a new coach, to state the obvious.

[flow]

It's hilarious that the biggest talking point on the board is Killian Hayes.

Ivey, Duren, Wiseman, Bagley, Diallo, Livers, potential draftees, Casey, Weaver, attendance, the arena, Gores etc

But yeah nah it's all about Hayes.

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If it's about Hayes, it's also about Weaver. He not only drafted him, but keeps extending him.

So just to be clear by saying keep you are implying that thus action has been made more than once and that it was the wrong decision to make at the time each time.

Note that the alternative would be to have let a lottery pick go in each instance for absolutely nothing.

Weaver exercised options on Hayes more than once. That's fact. Option for 2022/23 was exercised in 2021. Option for 2023/24 was exercised in 2022. You can impute from that whatever you want. Which you have. My point is simply that Hayes & Weaver are connected. Would I have picked up his first option? Maybe. Would I have picked up his second option? Probably not. And I damn sure would rather lose him for nothing after this season than be burdened with with his salary and roster spot next season.

[Invictus88]

If it's about Hayes, it's also about Weaver. He not only drafted him, but keeps extending him.

So just to be clear by saying keep you are implying that thus action has been made more than once and that it was the wrong decision to make at the time each time.

Note that the alternative would be to have let a lottery pick go in each instance for absolutely nothing.

Weaver exercised options on Hayes more than once. That's fact. Option for 2022/23 was exercised in 2021. Option for 2023/24 was exercised in 2022. You can impute from that whatever you want. Which you have. My point is simply that Hayes & Weaver are connected. Would I have picked up his first option? Maybe. Would I have picked up his second option? Probably not. And I damn sure would rather lose him for nothing after this season than be burdened with with his salary and roster spot next season.

Maybe on the first option? Really? On a #7 Overall pick that was injured almost the entirety of his first year; that had to be exercised on 10/31/21 with just a handful of games into season 2?

Come on. You're just being disingenuous here because you want to bury Weaver; because that fits your narrative.

He then starts to put things together towards the end of the 2021-22 season and the next decision had a deadline 8 games into this current season; after which I might add Killian started playing much better and criticism died down completely.

He obviously has regressed since then and you better believe that if there was an option to terminate his final year that the Pistons would be considering it. But that's not an option at this point.

[Kalamazoo317]

So what's with the stat padding layup by Ivey at the end of this one? Doesn't seem like Trey liked seeing it.

[Manocad]

It's bizarre like this guy literally brings up other guys that are having bad efficiency seasons thinking that's a good argument. Lol can't take these guys serious.

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Wait--so now that Killian's stats are considerable as being horrible relatively speaking, other players stats should be disregarded?

Do you know how comparative stats work?

You compared him to two guys with terrible efficiency. How does that change that Killian is terrible. Those guys aren't very good besides chris Paul who is having his worst statistical season, yet is still leagues better than Killian.

Your argument sucks.

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The point being made was that Killian was "the worst offensive player in the league, and it's not even close." Then when I pointed out that no, there were other players having close to as bad an offensive season, you now say "Yeah, but they're just having bad seasons."

My argument was simple; Killian is NOT the worst offensive player in the league by the wide margin that's being claimed. Your argument sucks.

[mattao313]

Wait--so now that Killian's stats are considerable as being horrible relatively speaking, other players stats should be disregarded?

Do you know how comparative stats work?

You compared him to two guys with terrible efficiency. How does that change that Killian is terrible. Those guys aren't very good besides chris Paul who is having his worst statistical season, yet is still leagues better than Killian.

Your argument sucks.

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The point being made was that Killian was "the worst offensive player in the league, and it's not even close." Then when I pointed out that no, there were other players having close to as bad an offensive season, you now say "Yeah, but they're just having bad seasons."

My argument was simple; Killian is NOT the worst offensive player in the league by the wide margin that's being claimed. Your argument sucks.

But he is.your argument sucks lmao

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[Manocad]

You compared him to two guys with terrible efficiency. How does that change that Killian is terrible. Those guys aren't very good besides chris Paul who is having his worst statistical season, yet is still leagues better than Killian.

Your argument sucks.

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The point being made was that Killian was "the worst offensive player in the league, and it's not even close." Then when I pointed out that no, there were other players having close to as bad an offensive season, you now say "Yeah, but they're just having bad seasons."

My argument was simple; Killian is NOT the worst offensive player in the league by the wide margin that's being claimed. Your argument sucks.

But he is.your argument sucks lmao

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But not by a wide margin. Fact. Your argument sucks.