Warriors select Jonathan Kuminga with the 7th pick of the 2021 NBA Draft

[TB]

Will a few first and a hotdog from treasure island get it done?

Let a man dream!

Well if you had mentioned the treasure island dog from the start there would have been no issues.

[Sleepy51]

Yeah Kuminga may have a higher ceiling but he may not necessarily get there.

In 2-3 more seasons we'll have a clear idea of both players, around the time their rookie deals expire.

If Kerr gives Kuminga serious minutes (25-30) it's not gonna take 2+ more seasons...

his bbiq is not there, you cant force player to grow just by throwing him heavy mins, he is still a bit of offensive black hole and makes too many mistakes. I will be happy if he is better than Lamb next year

He has picked up the offensive system faster than any other draft pick that has played for the dynasty warriors ... so what exactly are you benchmarking low IQ against? Draymond?

[michaelm]

Franz is playing 32 minutes in his career so far, shooting 47.8/35.9/84.8, with 4.3 RPG, 3.2 APG and 0.9 STL.

He's averaging $16.9 in just under 2 NBA seasons.

He's 6-10, can handle it a bit. Not sure how well he defends at the POA though.

Yeah Kuminga may have a higher ceiling but he may not necessarily get there.

In 2-3 more seasons we'll have a clear idea of both players, around the time their rookie deals expire.

But right now, Franz would arguably get more minutes than JK, probably more productive in a playoffs rotation too.

Those stats are meaningless on a losing team. Imagine what JK would be putting up on Orlando with no leash.

I disagree. Franz has been fantastic, and will continue to be a great player on both ends of the floor. And JoKu with no leash in Orlando could have him looking inefficient on offense without the sense of defensive urgency he has gained from being on a title contender with seriously high demands on their rotation players. Credit to Kerr and JoKu for sticking with it after some rough times and really locking in to the correct development.

But Franz has clearly been the better player. And is clearly the better player right now. He's an absolute cornerstone for any team that has him.

Buuuut, Kuminga is showing flashes more and more often on why he was the higher pick with the higher ceiling. If he puts this all together consistently, he can be on Franz level with even higher peaks.

They are both showing exactly what people hoped/expected from them. Franz was always going to be the quicker player to success while whoever drafted Kuminga had to develop him much more.

The thing is that Kuminga is definitely not a bust at this point in time, and there is every reason to hope he will continue to develop, so the odds on the GSW gamble on his potential coming off have considerably shortened.

They fairly obviously didn't need JK or Franz to win the title last season. Barring some sort of Kawhi-like breakout by JK in the play-offs if you are arguing that Wagner as he has been so far this year would have benefited GSW more so far this season and that they would likely be higher in the standings it is hard to disagree. I think most GSW fans including me are happy with how JK is developing though.

[Big J]

Franz is a nice little solid player, but his upside is no where close to what JK’s is. Kuminga could potentially become a top 5 guy in the league at some point. He has fixed his main weakness, which was shooting.

[Sleepy51]

Franz is a nice little solid player, but his upside is no where close to what JK’s is. Kuminga could potentially become a top 5 guy in the league at some point. He has fixed his main weakness, which was shooting.

It would be very unlikely for JK to efficiently put up top 5 to even top 20 numbers as a #1 option. He’s efficient now because he’s got great options to pass and defer to. He doesn’t have to take any “bad shots.” #1 guys have to take a lot of those end of clock, bailout, game planned for and into the teeth of the defense shots. JK is unlikely to be a guy you want doing that.

However defense continues to be criminally undervalued in this league and he is going to be a guy who disrupts “top 5” #1 option guys consistently.

He tracks to be a lot like what we have cultivated in Wiggins, but probably even more effective on defense and multi-positionally because of his strength, which is an OUTSTANDING outcome.

[Big J]

Franz is a nice little solid player, but his upside is no where close to what JK’s is. Kuminga could potentially become a top 5 guy in the league at some point. He has fixed his main weakness, which was shooting.

It would be very unlikely for JK to efficiently put up top 5 to even top 20 numbers as a #1 option. He’s efficient now because he’s got great options to pass and defer to. He doesn’t have to take any “bad shots.” #1 guys have to take a lot of those end of clock, bailout, game planned for and into the teeth of the defense shots. JK is unlikely to be a guy you want doing that.

However defense continues to be criminally undervalued in this league and he is going to be a guy who disrupts “top 5” #1 option guys consistently.

He tracks to be a lot like what we have cultivated in Wiggins, but probably even more effective on defense and multi-positionally because of his strength, which is an OUTSTANDING outcome.

How many “bad shot” end of shot clock bailouts is Giannis taking? A number one option doesn’t always have to do that. Even Lebron for most of his career would hot potato those shots in order to protect his fg%. The great thing about JK is that he’s eventually going to start drawing double teams, and it’s going to help that he is such a willing passer.

[TB]

Those stats are meaningless on a losing team. Imagine what JK would be putting up on Orlando with no leash.

I disagree. Franz has been fantastic, and will continue to be a great player on both ends of the floor. And JoKu with no leash in Orlando could have him looking inefficient on offense without the sense of defensive urgency he has gained from being on a title contender with seriously high demands on their rotation players. Credit to Kerr and JoKu for sticking with it after some rough times and really locking in to the correct development.

But Franz has clearly been the better player. And is clearly the better player right now. He's an absolute cornerstone for any team that has him.

Buuuut, Kuminga is showing flashes more and more often on why he was the higher pick with the higher ceiling. If he puts this all together consistently, he can be on Franz level with even higher peaks.

They are both showing exactly what people hoped/expected from them. Franz was always going to be the quicker player to success while whoever drafted Kuminga had to develop him much more.

The thing is that Kuminga is definitely not a bust at this point in time, and there is every reason to hope he will continue to develop, so the odds on the GSW gamble on his potential coming off have considerably shortened.

They fairly obviously didn't need JK or Franz to win the title last season. Barring some sort of Kawhi-like breakout by JK in the play-offs if you are arguing that Wagner as he has been so far this year would have benefited GSW more so far this season and that they would likely be higher in the standings it is hard to disagree. I think most GSW fans including me are happy with how JK is developing though.

Just to clarify, I've never called Kuminga a bust and am glad we drafted him (both on draft day and now in hindsight). But I'm also a huge Franz fan. He was my favorite draft prospect that year until Kuminga dropped to our pick. I also would never have expected Franz to help towards a title in a rookie year, no rookie should be expected to do that ever.

The main point is, we are in the exact same situation as draft day... in a good way! Both players are on the high end of their expected development at this time. Franz, as expected is way ahead, and already playing at a level some thought would be his ceiling. Kuminga is also way ahead of where most thought he'd be year two, and showing defensive flashes that are higher than ever anticipated. So both teams are happy. One went with the high upside, and signs are pointing towards a potential better player. The other team took the more sure thing, and he's been just that, a sure thing. Everyone wins (as long as JoKu keeps improving, which seems likely).

[SpreeChokeJob]

Franz is a nice little solid player, but his upside is no where close to what JK’s is. Kuminga could potentially become a top 5 guy in the league at some point. He has fixed his main weakness, which was shooting.

It would be very unlikely for JK to efficiently put up top 5 to even top 20 numbers as a #1 option. He’s efficient now because he’s got great options to pass and defer to. He doesn’t have to take any “bad shots.” #1 guys have to take a lot of those end of clock, bailout, game planned for and into the teeth of the defense shots. JK is unlikely to be a guy you want doing that.

However defense continues to be criminally undervalued in this league and he is going to be a guy who disrupts “top 5” #1 option guys consistently.

He tracks to be a lot like what we have cultivated in Wiggins, but probably even more effective on defense and multi-positionally because of his strength, which is an OUTSTANDING outcome.

He could be a number one option if he had the same efficiency on his turnaround j like Livingston had because no one can stop him at his height and jumping height. It’s if he can be as robotically consistent like Livingston. It’s a simple money shot.

[a8bil]

in 2023, JK is shooting at a TS% of .628 and .456 from 3 pt range. Gravy on top of his defensive efforts.

[wco81]

in 2023, JK is shooting at a TS% of .628 and .456 from 3 pt range. Gravy on top of his defensive efforts.

He just needs consistent run and effort.

Jaylen Brown started with minimal touches and shot attempts, first concentrated on defense.

I'm not saying JK will be on JB's path, at least not yet. Obviously we'd all be excited to see JK become a multiple all-star or even one of the all-NBA players like JB is going to be this year.

But JB definitely had a developmental path and the Celtics gave him more leash to really develop his skills. They let him shoot freely on 3s in his second year and he shot 40%, often off transition 3s. OF course Warriors reserve those shots mostly for Steph and Klay so they may not be interested in letting JK take those early 3s off transition, only when he's WIDE open at the end of the shot clock.

But it helped JB's confidence and it may help JK's confidence. With his athleticism, if JK can establish a good enough 3-point shot, it will open up a lot of driving opportunities, attacking closeouts. That is how JB starts his attacks to the rim, often from outside the 3, forcing defenses to rotate, so he can keep going to the rim or kick out.

JK doesn't need as much physical development as Moody or Poole, especially strength, so he should be working on ball handling and shooting in the offseason. Obviously he has been working on his jumper, both from 3 and the little turnaround in the paint or even pull-up jumpers around the elbow.

He's got the tools to be a strong midrange jumper, kind of like the way Booker has developed his game, taking on switches against the smaller guards and shooting over them.

Or as mentioned, he could be effective like Livingston was, again going after smaller guards.

I hope that is part of the package they're developing with him, not just to be a role player, mainly defense and then be cut and slasher.

Usually when he gets the ball and goes to the hole, he's looking to finish inside, usually against smaller defenders. But once in awhile, he has to pull up and consistently hit the shot to keep them honest. Or else they will play him to drive and either draw charge or rotate big men into the paint.

[michaelm]

I disagree. Franz has been fantastic, and will continue to be a great player on both ends of the floor. And JoKu with no leash in Orlando could have him looking inefficient on offense without the sense of defensive urgency he has gained from being on a title contender with seriously high demands on their rotation players. Credit to Kerr and JoKu for sticking with it after some rough times and really locking in to the correct development.

But Franz has clearly been the better player. And is clearly the better player right now. He's an absolute cornerstone for any team that has him.

Buuuut, Kuminga is showing flashes more and more often on why he was the higher pick with the higher ceiling. If he puts this all together consistently, he can be on Franz level with even higher peaks.

They are both showing exactly what people hoped/expected from them. Franz was always going to be the quicker player to success while whoever drafted Kuminga had to develop him much more.

The thing is that Kuminga is definitely not a bust at this point in time, and there is every reason to hope he will continue to develop, so the odds on the GSW gamble on his potential coming off have considerably shortened.

They fairly obviously didn't need JK or Franz to win the title last season. Barring some sort of Kawhi-like breakout by JK in the play-offs if you are arguing that Wagner as he has been so far this year would have benefited GSW more so far this season and that they would likely be higher in the standings it is hard to disagree. I think most GSW fans including me are happy with how JK is developing though.

Just to clarify, I've never called Kuminga a bust and am glad we drafted him (both on draft day and now in hindsight). But I'm also a huge Franz fan. He was my favorite draft prospect that year until Kuminga dropped to our pick. I also would never have expected Franz to help towards a title in a rookie year, no rookie should be expected to do that ever.

The main point is, we are in the exact same situation as draft day... in a good way! Both players are on the high end of their expected development at this time. Franz, as expected is way ahead, and already playing at a level some thought would be his ceiling. Kuminga is also way ahead of where most thought he'd be year two, and showing defensive flashes that are higher than ever anticipated. So both teams are happy. One went with the high upside, and signs are pointing towards a potential better player. The other team took the more sure thing, and he's been just that, a sure thing. Everyone wins (as long as JoKu keeps improving, which seems likely).

Sure, wasn't meaning to imply you ever suggested he was a bust, just saying that the possible low side of drafting Kuminga hasn't eventuated. I was joking about not needing Franz last year, they didn't need anyone extra last year of course. I do think they would be higher in the standings this season with Wagner on the roster. Hopefully the team has more than 8 games left, and there is time left for JK to make a bigger splash.

[HiRez]

Steph and Draymond were pretty good in the Dallas game, but I think you can make an argument that Kuminga was the best (and most impactful) player on the floor last night, which has never happened before that I can recall when the vets are all playing.

[Onus]

Franz is a nice little solid player, but his upside is no where close to what JK’s is. Kuminga could potentially become a top 5 guy in the league at some point. He has fixed his main weakness, which was shooting.

It would be very unlikely for JK to efficiently put up top 5 to even top 20 numbers as a #1 option. He’s efficient now because he’s got great options to pass and defer to. He doesn’t have to take any “bad shots.” #1 guys have to take a lot of those end of clock, bailout, game planned for and into the teeth of the defense shots. JK is unlikely to be a guy you want doing that.

However defense continues to be criminally undervalued in this league and he is going to be a guy who disrupts “top 5” #1 option guys consistently.

He tracks to be a lot like what we have cultivated in Wiggins, but probably even more effective on defense and multi-positionally because of his strength, which is an OUTSTANDING outcome.

We have to realize jk isn’t scoring mostly on his own. He’s scoring based off of open shots and not being guarded. He really hasn’t shown 1st option game yet. But at least he’s scoring efficiently now on those shots. It’s a good start.

I’ve been saying he’s really close to a Wiggins type player. Hopefully he can be more efficient in the future because that’s a really valuable type player even if he doesn’t get to be a 1 option.

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

I like the Kuminga pick. He has exciting talent. But he is still flawed. Lets hope experience will fix him.
Oubre was not lacking experience. Worse case for Kuminga is that he has some moderate leve of incurable Oubre disease.

If we could make Kuminga as good as Lamb at everything Lamb does better than Kuminga then Kuminga would be better than Lamb and a good starter. For now Kuminga is only as good as or better than Lamb at Man defense and driving to the hoop. Lamb has the better basketball IQ and the better will to win/ basketball emotional IQ and better reaction time and smarter reactions.

The star I hope Kuminga will become might not ever happen.

[tarantism]

We don't need him to be a star, we need him to be a two way force that connects our lineups. A fully developed Kuminga could potentially switch 1-5 and also attack mismatches on the offensive end. Think Jerami Grant.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

[HiRez]

I think some of you are really traumatized by the Wiseman fiasco. Kuminga is going to be a star and until then he's going to be an impactful player that can't be ignored on either end. He's not quite there yet but it's coming quickly now that he's getting minutes.

[sjballer03]

I think some of you are really traumatized by the Wiseman fiasco. Kuminga is going to be a star and until then he's going to be an impactful player that can't be ignored on either end. He's not quite there yet but it's coming quickly now that he's getting minutes.

Yea people are tripping. Just hitting on the Knock. It. Off. pick is more than enough to make up for Wiseman.

We've had multiple discussions here about how this is childish and inappropriate, and won't be allowed. About to start issuing suspensions instead of wasting time editing posts.

[SpreeChokeJob]

It’s crazy, some people place this extra high bar for him to jump over to prove he’s a good player. Let this sink in for all you doubters. He’s 20 years old.

Let’s look at what he has done since coming into the league. When he first arrived he couldn’t even shoot a free throw, his three’s missed everything occasionally, bad body language. Since then, his free throws, three’s are trending up, he’s added a turnaround j, playmaking, locks up the best player on the other team. Sometimes I think I am taking crazy pills when I read the comments of people wanting to trade him when he’s on a rookie contract. Either I’m crazy or the rest of the world is insane.

Look at the progress of the others that came in the same time or earlier: Moody, Wiseman, and Poole. Kaiju has blown past them given the same opportunities to prove themselves. Why didn’t the others score off open shots and not being guarded while this guy who came in with no shooting ability has surpassed them in TS pct. Kuminga at this point could probably beat all three in a 3 pt shooting competition at this point.

[ClutchUp]

He has made a nice improvement with the corner 3's. Last season he was at 25 percent. This season he's at 41 percent. It's nice to see the progression.

[a8bil]

It’s crazy, some people place this extra high bar for him to jump over to prove he’s a good player. Let this sink in for all you doubters. He’s 20 years old.

Let’s look at what he has done since coming into the league. When he first arrived he couldn’t even shoot a free throw, his three’s missed everything occasionally, bad body language. Since then, his free throws, three’s are trending up, he’s added a turnaround j, playmaking, locks up the best player on the other team. Sometimes I think I am taking crazy pills when I read the comments of people wanting to trade him when he’s on a rookie contract. Either I’m crazy or the rest of the world is insane.

Look at the progress of the others that came in the same time or earlier: Moody, Wiseman, and Poole. Kaiju has blown past them given the same opportunities to prove themselves. Why didn’t the others score off open shots and not being guarded while this guy who came in with no shooting ability has surpassed them in TS pct. Kuminga at this point could probably beat all three in a 3 pt shooting competition at this point.

I mentioned his trade value because there is a general pining on this board for a vet who can help Steph win now with what's left of his narrow window of dominance. When I look around the league, however, I don't see a vet who I really think can help this team AND be worth giving up JK and Poole. I like Brown, but as good as he is and as much as I like a fellow Cal guy, I'm not sure JK won't be at his level in 2-3 years, and more importantly, I'm not confident Brown is the missing piece. Who else is there that would be a trade target, would be an equivalent package but significant upgrade from JK/Poole, would be okay in a subordinate role to Steph and would be the missing piece for winning more championships?