2023 NBA Draft

[Big J]

I swear Timme gets less and less athletic with each passing year. But he gets funner and funner to watch. Not a guy that’s going to get drafted, but this is somewhat of a college thread as well and the dude is so damn elite at college basketball. Crazy to think he has another year of eligibility as well.

How is it possible that he has another year of eligibility? Isn't he a senior?

Please explain it to me, I don't know how that works as I'm not from the US.

I’m guessing it’s because he played during the COVID season.

[EvanZ]

There are guys playing 6 years now, so it's not surprising at all he has a 5th year of eligibility.

[TheSuzerain]

Is there anyone who’d consider Walker at #2?

Not me. But I can see a solid argument for #3.

What is that argument?

I just don't see the offensive ceiling being all that high.

And even defensively, he doesn't seem to likely have an elite impact either (as that's generally reserved for stud rim protectors).

[TheSuzerain]

Is there anyone who’d consider Walker at #2?

I don't think he has the scoring acumen to go as high as #2 in this draft. The only team I could possibly see having interest in him that high is maybe the Pacers because they already have a franchise player and other guys who they really like. Hali-Mathurin-Turner. Walker would be a really good fit with them at PF. However, I think they'd easily rather draft someone like Brandon Miller instead.

Why not just take Miller though? Seems like a much better fit at PF for them.

[TheSuzerain]

I swear Timme gets less and less athletic with each passing year. But he gets funner and funner to watch. Not a guy that’s going to get drafted, but this is somewhat of a college thread as well and the dude is so damn elite at college basketball. Crazy to think he has another year of eligibility as well.

How is it possible that he has another year of eligibility? Isn't he a senior?

Please explain it to me, I don't know how that works as I'm not from the US.

He's played 4-years, but as one of those years was 2019-20 (the COVID year), he gets an extra year of eligibility.

In retrospect, I think it was a dumb decision to give everybody that extra year, but here we are.

[The-Power]

Is there anyone who’d consider Walker at #2?

Not me. But I can see a solid argument for #3.

What is that argument?

I just don't see the offensive ceiling being all that high.

And even defensively, he doesn't seem to likely have an elite impact either (as that's generally reserved for stud rim protectors).

It would be based on him having a fairly high floor and the competition for the spot being underwhelming. I agree that his offense has clear limitations but an optimistic view would believe in his passing ability as a potential path to considerable impact. As for defense, I think the current NBA moves away from elite rim protectors as the only source of elite impact. I'm not saying Walker will be an elite defender (I think it's more likely that he'll just end up good and versatile) but in today's NBA, being able to switch onto the perimeter, hold up against bigger players and defend the rim with length and strength provides prime value. That combination plus elite defensive IQ and motor is what turned Draymond Green – not the classic elite rim protector type – into the best defensive player of his generation.

[eminence]

My consideration for him at #2 was certainly 90% defense focused and envisioning him as at least a fringe DPOY contender.

And what an egg from Miller so far.

[CptCrunch]

Miller is probably closer to Jabari Smith as spot up shooter than he is to being a self-creator off the dribble right now.

Best among the worst at #2 at best.

[EvanZ]

Not me. But I can see a solid argument for #3.

What is that argument?

I just don't see the offensive ceiling being all that high.

And even defensively, he doesn't seem to likely have an elite impact either (as that's generally reserved for stud rim protectors).

It would be based on him having a fairly high floor and the competition for the spot being underwhelming. I agree that his offense has clear limitations but an optimistic view would believe in his passing ability as a potential path to considerable impact. As for defense, I think the current NBA moves away from elite rim protectors as the only source of elite impact. I'm not saying Walker will be an elite defender (I think it's more likely that he'll just end up good and versatile) but in today's NBA, being able to switch onto the perimeter, hold up against bigger players and defend the rim with length and strength provides prime value. That combination plus elite defensive IQ and motor is what turned Draymond Green – not the classic elite rim protector type – into the best defensive player of his generation.

I’ll see your Jarace and raise you Taylor Hendricks at 2.


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[BostonCouchGM]

Miller fell out of my top 5. At some point you have to prove it against top teams and he flopped as hard as any top guy I’ve ever seen. He’ll be a role player at the next level. There’s no path that I can see where he’s special or anywhere near an all-star

[Braggins]

I never moved Miller, or anyone, ahead of Scoot and still think Scoot goes 2nd.

[The-Power]

What is that argument?

I just don't see the offensive ceiling being all that high.

And even defensively, he doesn't seem to likely have an elite impact either (as that's generally reserved for stud rim protectors).

It would be based on him having a fairly high floor and the competition for the spot being underwhelming. I agree that his offense has clear limitations but an optimistic view would believe in his passing ability as a potential path to considerable impact. As for defense, I think the current NBA moves away from elite rim protectors as the only source of elite impact. I'm not saying Walker will be an elite defender (I think it's more likely that he'll just end up good and versatile) but in today's NBA, being able to switch onto the perimeter, hold up against bigger players and defend the rim with length and strength provides prime value. That combination plus elite defensive IQ and motor is what turned Draymond Green – not the classic elite rim protector type – into the best defensive player of his generation.

I’ll see your Jarace and raise you Taylor Hendricks at 2.


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Just as for Jarace, I can personally see good arguments for Hendricks as early as #3.

[TheSuzerain]

What is that argument?

I just don't see the offensive ceiling being all that high.

And even defensively, he doesn't seem to likely have an elite impact either (as that's generally reserved for stud rim protectors).

It would be based on him having a fairly high floor and the competition for the spot being underwhelming. I agree that his offense has clear limitations but an optimistic view would believe in his passing ability as a potential path to considerable impact. As for defense, I think the current NBA moves away from elite rim protectors as the only source of elite impact. I'm not saying Walker will be an elite defender (I think it's more likely that he'll just end up good and versatile) but in today's NBA, being able to switch onto the perimeter, hold up against bigger players and defend the rim with length and strength provides prime value. That combination plus elite defensive IQ and motor is what turned Draymond Green – not the classic elite rim protector type – into the best defensive player of his generation.

I’ll see your Jarace and raise you Taylor Hendricks at 2.


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That's my hold up on Walker. I don't understand why Hendricks isn't just the better version of that type of prospect.

Unless you really buy into Walker's playmaking or defensive impact or something. But I'm skeptical.

[The-Power]

It would be based on him having a fairly high floor and the competition for the spot being underwhelming. I agree that his offense has clear limitations but an optimistic view would believe in his passing ability as a potential path to considerable impact. As for defense, I think the current NBA moves away from elite rim protectors as the only source of elite impact. I'm not saying Walker will be an elite defender (I think it's more likely that he'll just end up good and versatile) but in today's NBA, being able to switch onto the perimeter, hold up against bigger players and defend the rim with length and strength provides prime value. That combination plus elite defensive IQ and motor is what turned Draymond Green – not the classic elite rim protector type – into the best defensive player of his generation.

I’ll see your Jarace and raise you Taylor Hendricks at 2.


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That's my hold up on Walker. I don't understand why Hendricks isn't just the better version of that type of prospect.

Unless you really buy into Walker's playmaking or defensive impact or something. But I'm skeptical.

I mean, you just said it – so you should understand. People who have Walker over Hendricks likely value his clearly superior playmaking and certain aspects of his defense. Whether you yourself arrive at the same conclusion all things considered – including aspects in which Hendricks is better – is a different question. But it shouldn't be difficult to understand where people are coming from.

I personally think both players have good arguments for top 5 and I can understand anyone who makes an argument for top 3, too. Both have a lot to like but also a lot of question marks. But the lottery this year is littered with players that have serious question marks. It's tough to rank and project players this year.

[eminence]

I don't really see them as that similar of prospects. Hendricks looks like a pretty classical forward prospect with good defensive potential and looking like a pretty solid play finisher, Walker a modern 4/5 with more potential as a playmaker, but not the same level of finisher (given the significant shooting gap).

[TheSuzerain]

I’ll see your Jarace and raise you Taylor Hendricks at 2.


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That's my hold up on Walker. I don't understand why Hendricks isn't just the better version of that type of prospect.

Unless you really buy into Walker's playmaking or defensive impact or something. But I'm skeptical.

I mean, you just said it – so you should understand. People who have Walker over Hendricks likely value his clearly superior playmaking and certain aspects of his defense. Whether you yourself arrive at the same conclusion all things considered – including aspects in which Hendricks is better – is a different question. But it shouldn't be difficult to understand where people are coming from.

Hendricks seems like a much better shooter. And a more dynamic athlete in general.

Walker has a great frame but seems very unimpressive to me as a mover. Not very explosive at all. Combine that with a lack of scoring feel, and I don't see why anybody would run offense through him in the first place to even unlock that playmaking that he supposedly has (with his basically 1:1 ast:TO ratio).

[The-Power]

That's my hold up on Walker. I don't understand why Hendricks isn't just the better version of that type of prospect.

Unless you really buy into Walker's playmaking or defensive impact or something. But I'm skeptical.

I mean, you just said it – so you should understand. People who have Walker over Hendricks likely value his clearly superior playmaking and certain aspects of his defense. Whether you yourself arrive at the same conclusion all things considered – including aspects in which Hendricks is better – is a different question. But it shouldn't be difficult to understand where people are coming from.

Hendricks seems like a much better shooter. And a more dynamic athlete in general.

Walker has a great frame but seems very unimpressive to me as a mover. Not very explosive at all. Combine that with a lack of scoring feel, and I don't see why anybody would run offense through him in the first place to even unlock that playmaking that he supposedly has (with his basically 1:1 ast:TO ratio).

As I wrote, Hendricks has certain advantages over Walker – and vice versa. So you preferring Hendricks is completely fair, but that doesn't mean that you shouldn't be able to understand why some prefer Walker (even if you disagree).

As for ‘supposed playmaking’: I mean, it's obvious when you watch him. He makes some very advanced reads and passes that not many Freshmen combo-bigs make. We can argue how it will translate, or how important it will be to his overall game – but the ability and flashes are undeniable.

And AST:TO ratio is not a strong argument, especially for college bigs. Per 40 minutes, Draymond Green's AST:TO ratio was 2.9 to 2.3 in his Freshman season. Bam Adebayo 1.1 to 2.2. Al Horford 1.5 to 1.7. Kevin Love 2.6 to 2.7. Domantas Sabonis 1.6 to 2.9. These are some of the best big man passers in the NBA currently. Walker is at 2.5 to 2.2. That's better than anyone's ratio besides Green's. Which is not to say that he'll likely be a better playmaker than the others, of course – but it shows that looking at AST:TO ratio is a poor indicator to assess the playmaking ability of college bigs.

[clyde21]

the level of mental gymnastics on this board right now not to put Scoot at 2

[clyde21]

Trey Alexander is a top45 guy

top 25*

[EMG518]

What is that argument?

I just don't see the offensive ceiling being all that high.

And even defensively, he doesn't seem to likely have an elite impact either (as that's generally reserved for stud rim protectors).

It would be based on him having a fairly high floor and the competition for the spot being underwhelming. I agree that his offense has clear limitations but an optimistic view would believe in his passing ability as a potential path to considerable impact. As for defense, I think the current NBA moves away from elite rim protectors as the only source of elite impact. I'm not saying Walker will be an elite defender (I think it's more likely that he'll just end up good and versatile) but in today's NBA, being able to switch onto the perimeter, hold up against bigger players and defend the rim with length and strength provides prime value. That combination plus elite defensive IQ and motor is what turned Draymond Green – not the classic elite rim protector type – into the best defensive player of his generation.

I’ll see your Jarace and raise you Taylor Hendricks at 2.


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Everyone folds, that's crazy.