Official Trade Thread Part XLV

[payitforward]

...Kuminga + Poole + Moody + Future FRP for Porzingis + Avdjia?

This I would do in a minute.

But I would far prefer to get a 3d team involved & move Poole along for a R1 pick this year.

[penbeast0]

Someone on the trade board was talking about Lilliard and Little for Avdija, Morris, Wright, Gafford and our 1st. I think the Wiz would jump at this if it were actually offered, my question is do you think it would be enough to make the Wiz actual contenders with Lilliard added but all our best defenders removed?

[FAH1223]

Someone on the trade board was talking about Lilliard and Little for Avdija, Morris, Wright, Gafford and our 1st. I think the Wiz would jump at this if it were actually offered, my question is do you think it would be enough to make the Wiz actual contenders with Lilliard added but all our best defenders removed?

Nope.

I love Dame but I’m not doing that.

[gambitx777]

Why would dame ever want to come here and why would we want a 37 year old dame. ? He's gonna go off the cliff sooner or later and we don't have enough to make a better team than the blazers have.

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[penbeast0]

Why would we want him? Maybe because if we disappoint or are better for 1 or 2 years then crash, then THAT might be the wake up call to the team to tank and restart?

[Jay81]

how do we trade for Donic?

[Jay81]

Why would dame ever want to come here and why would we want a 37 year old dame. ? He's gonna go off the cliff sooner or later and we don't have enough to make a better team than the blazers have.

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this would reeek Washington lol...trading for an old Moses...old Bernard King...old Rod Strickland...old Mitch Richmond.....its never ever worked

[nate33]

Why would we want him? Maybe because if we disappoint or are better for 1 or 2 years then crash, then THAT might be the wake up call to the team to tank and restart?

Yeah, the only reason to trade for Dame is because I know the experiment would fail and ultimately land us in the lottery with a hollowed out team. But if that was the upside of such a deal, why not instead trade Beal, Porzingis and Kuzma for picks and crappy players so that we can bottom out sooner and start the rebuild sooner (with some extra picks in the queue)?

[gambitx777]

Why would we want him? Maybe because if we disappoint or are better for 1 or 2 years then crash, then THAT might be the wake up call to the team to tank and restart?

Yeah, the only reason to trade for Dame is because I know the experiment would fail and ultimately land us in the lottery with a hollowed out team. But if that was the upside of such a deal, why not instead trade Beal, Porzingis and Kuzma for picks and crappy players so that we can bottom out sooner and start the rebuild sooner (with some extra picks in the queue)?

I still wouldn't trade KP just yet he's a positive vet and you don't want to end up like Houston.

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[payitforward]

I still wouldn't trade KP just yet he's a positive vet and you don't want to end up like Houston.

Independent of the question about trading KP, why would we not want to end up like Houston?

I guess "end up" isn't the right way to put it. Why would we not want to go through the process that Houston is going through? That Philadelphia went through as well?

Houston has a ton of extremely promising/good young players, they have 1 of the top 3 picks in the draft plus the #19 as well (from the Clippers), & they have a huge amount of cap room & roster room to add free agents.

No rebuild is guaranteed, & not all those young guys will pan out, but overall they are in outstanding shape. I'd trade places with them right now, no questions asked.

...& I might turn out to be wrong -- goes w/o saying. Check back in 2 years. Here's hoping we're not in the world of 20-something wins.

[DCZards]

I still wouldn't trade KP just yet he's a positive vet and you don't want to end up like Houston.

Independent of the question about trading KP, why would we not want to end up like Houston?

I guess "end up" isn't the right way to put it. Why would we not want to go through the process that Houston is going through? That Philadelphia went through as well?

Houston has a ton of extremely promising/good young players, they have 1 of the top 3 picks in the draft plus the #19 as well (from the Clippers), & they have a huge amount of cap room & roster room to add free agents.

No rebuild is guaranteed, & not all those young guys will pan out, but overall they are in outstanding shape. I'd trade places with them right now, no questions asked.

...& I might turn out to be wrong -- goes w/o saying. Check back in 2 years. Here's hoping we're not in the world of 20-something wins.

The Sixers (who have yet to make it to the EC Finals via “the process”) is inevitably the team that’s brought up when rebuilding is raised. But for every Philly that has gone thru the “process” of drafting quality young talent and come out of it with a quality team there are the Orlandos, Charlottes and Sacramentos that have spent a decade or more "rebuilding."

Philly’s “process” resulted in the drafting of Embiid, one of the best big men of his generation. Golden State did a quick rebuild, but it was largely on the shoulders of an unworldly talent and shooter in Curry. Those are the exceptions rather than the rule.

I think the point is that in rebuilding around young and inexperienced talent there’s something to be said for having a quality vet like KP as a core piece.

This is not being said in opposition to "rebuilding"...but that "process" is often easier said than done.

[penbeast0]

Why would we want him? Maybe because if we disappoint or are better for 1 or 2 years then crash, then THAT might be the wake up call to the team to tank and restart?

Yeah, the only reason to trade for Dame is because I know the experiment would fail and ultimately land us in the lottery with a hollowed out team. But if that was the upside of such a deal, why not instead trade Beal, Porzingis and Kuzma for picks and crappy players so that we can bottom out sooner and start the rebuild sooner (with some extra picks in the queue)?

You don't think that given reasonable health, a team of
Lillard
Beal
Kuzma
Porzingis
Gafford

even with a weak bench (Nunn, Goodwin, Davis, Jackson, Kispert, Little, Gill, Huff, Gibson, Todd, plus whatever 2nd rounders or undrafted players we sign) at least makes a 1 and out playoff appearance next year?

I agree that Lillard will probably age out in a couple of years, that our "big 3" are better suited as 2,3,4 options than 1,2,3 options, and that our lack of defense will prevent us from going very far, but I do think it's a better team for next year plus being more likely to go for a full rebuild when Lillard does age out. I think the Wiz are very clear that they aren't going full Hinkie this year. Even if we lose out the rest and miss the playin, they will blame it on injuries and run it back again next year.

[nate33]

Why would we want him? Maybe because if we disappoint or are better for 1 or 2 years then crash, then THAT might be the wake up call to the team to tank and restart?

Yeah, the only reason to trade for Dame is because I know the experiment would fail and ultimately land us in the lottery with a hollowed out team. But if that was the upside of such a deal, why not instead trade Beal, Porzingis and Kuzma for picks and crappy players so that we can bottom out sooner and start the rebuild sooner (with some extra picks in the queue)?

You don't think that given reasonable health, a team of
Lillard
Beal
Kuzma
Porzingis
Gafford

even with a weak bench (Nunn, Goodwin, Davis, Jackson, Kispert, Little, Gill, Huff, Gibson, Todd, plus whatever 2nd rounders or undrafted players we sign) at least makes a 1 and out playoff appearance next year?

I agree that Lillard will probably age out in a couple of years, that our "big 3" are better suited as 2,3,4 options than 1,2,3 options, and that our lack of defense will prevent us from going very far, but I do think it's a better team for next year plus being more likely to go for a full rebuild when Lillard does age out. I think the Wiz are very clear that they aren't going full Hinkie this year. Even if we lose out the rest and miss the playin, they will blame it on injuries and run it back again next year.

Sure, they'd make it to the play-in. Big deal. They would still lose in the first round and we would still have to rebuild after first emptying the cupboard of assets.

[payitforward]

...for every Philly that has gone thru the “process” of drafting quality young talent and come out of it with a quality team there are the Orlandos, Charlottes and Sacramentos that have spent a decade or more "rebuilding."

...the point is that in rebuilding around young and inexperienced talent there’s something to be said for having a quality vet like KP as a core piece.

This is not being said in opposition to "rebuilding"...but that "process" is often easier said than done.

All true! Risk is the condition of every real world action.

The right strategy doesn't take it away. Not even making the right decisions removes it.
Results aren't guaranteed. Way too much is unknown or unknowable.

In fact, a decision to keep KP might just as easily backfire as a decision to trade him.

All the same, one way or another this team needs to be rebuilt. It's a lousy team, Zards. Really really bad.

Were we a good team last year? No.
In fact out of 30 teams, only 9 ended the season with worse records than ours.

Unfortunately, there is no realistic chance of our doing that well this year.
Out of 30 teams this year, only 7 have worse records than the Wizards.

& it could get worse. 1 of those 7 is only 1/2 game behind us. 2 others are only 1 game behind us.
& that's with several teams pretty obviously tanking to increase their draft capital.

In other words, to be worse than the Wizards those teams have to try to lose.

Who cares how risky it is to rebuild, Zards?
What's at risk? The chance to be the 23d best team in a 30-team league?

How bad does it have to get? We're on our way to multiple years of 20-something wins.
Is that what is needed in order to decide to start over?

[payitforward]

You don't think that given reasonable health, a team of
Lillard
Beal
Kuzma
Porzingis
Gafford

even with a weak bench (Nunn, Goodwin, Davis, Jackson, Kispert, Little, Gill, Huff, Gibson, Todd, plus whatever 2nd rounders or undrafted players we sign) at least makes a 1 and out playoff appearance next year? ...

"...at least"?
Absolutely not.

Would they have some chance to get to the first round & be brushed aside?
Maybe.

A really good chance?
No.

Lillard is a phenom, no doubt -- but you do have to figure some decline next year.
Beal is going downhill; surely that's obvious.
KP is simply NOT as good as everyone seems to think. With him starting we are 26-39.
Kuzma is a very very bad NBA player.

This is a totally self-destructive idea. As it is we are one of the worst teams in the league. Let's not make ourselves even worse to get 1 home playoff game.

[tleikheen]

KP is simply NOT as good as everyone seems to think. With him starting we are 26-39.
Kuzma is a very very bad NBA player.

This is very biased and not proven or a thread of truthfullness to it . Theres going to be alot of teams looking to sign Kuzma and KP away from the Wizards .....why because KP and Kuzma played with the worst PG rotation in the NBA and still balled out .KP playing with the worst PG rotation still shooting 49.4 percent on 997 shots,shooting 38.2 percent on 351 shots & 85.1 on 451 FT's ,this is shooting very fu*king good for "NOT as good as everyone seems to think. Kuz is probably the most athletic 6'10 player attacking the rim in BB right now .He can get alittle wild but teams looking for his services and KP's will be big this summer , making this statement, {KP is simply NOT as good as everyone seems to think. With him starting we are 26-39.
Kuzma is a very very bad NBA player } look stupid.

[dckingsfan]

KP is the best player on our team by a wide margin. I guess you could say an healthy Bradley Beal would be close (but not this version of Bradley Beal).

Kuzma isn't even in the discussion - I do hope he gets traded for something.

If Beal comes back to his 20-21 self and Porzingis continues to play (and stay healthy) at this level then maybe you have something.

But even then, we still need to have Deni, Kispert & Gafford improve + have Wright and Morris come back in this year's version.

Tough to image.

[payitforward]

KP is simply NOT as good as everyone seems to think. With him starting we are 26-39.
Kuzma is a very very bad NBA player.

This is very biased and not proven or a thread of truthfullness to it . Theres going to be alot of teams looking to sign Kuzma and KP away from the Wizards .....why because KP and Kuzma played with the worst PG rotation in the NBA and still balled out. KP playing with the worst PG rotation still shooting 49.4 percent on 997 shots,shooting 38.2 percent on 351 shots & 85.1 on 451 FT's ,this is shooting very fu*king good for "NOT as good as everyone seems to think....

As I've pointed out any number of times, KP is having a career year shooting the ball. He's been terrific in that regard. In fact, he's 5th in scoring (per 40 minutes) among all NBA Centers who've played 450 minutes or more, with only Zion, Embiid, AD & Jokic ahead of him.

Now... those guys are significantly ahead of him, not only in points scored but in how efficiently they are scored. But still... that's dxmn good.

But, once you look at the other things a big does on the court, the comparisons fade. In particular, KP is a below average rebounder, while all of those guys excel on the boards.

Those are just facts. Numbers that anyone can look up -- even you.

...Kuz is probably the most athletic 6'10 player attacking the rim in BB right now .He can get alittle wild but teams looking for his services and KP's will be big this summer , making this statement, {KP is simply NOT as good as everyone seems to think. With him starting we are 26-39.
Kuzma is a very very bad NBA player } look stupid.

LOL!
I'd say that anyone who thinks Kuzma is having a good season this year, that he's ever been even an average NBA forward any year in his career, is likely to know little or nothing real about basketball. Likely never to have coached the game or spent much time playing it.

Of course, in your case I could be wrong.
But since you were touting Rui all through the first 2/3 of the season, a guy who's never even touched "average" in his now 4 years in the league, & given that now you're stepping up for Kuz, who has been absolutely horrible, on top of calling Morris-Wright-Goodwin "the worst PG rotation in the NBA," & especially b/c you felt free to call me a racist (& never take it back or apologize), I feel pretty comfortable concluding that you don't know your own axx from a hole in the ground. Best of luck to you!

[payitforward]

...Kuz is probably the most athletic 6'10 player attacking the rim in BB right now .He can get alittle wild but teams looking for his services ...will be big this summer , making this statement, {...Kuzma is a very very bad NBA player } look stupid.

The facts of the matter:

On the season, Kuzma ranks 28th in USG%. He posts a terrible TS% of .542. Only 2 players have a higher usage and lower TS%, Jalen Green, a 20-year-old on the bottom-feeder Houston Rockets, and Westbrook, who was cut from his team.

Of the top 50 guys in USG%, only 7 of them rank lower than Kuzma in TS%:

USG% rank - player - TS%
23 - Jalen Green .530
26 - Westbrook .502
28 - Kuzma .542
29 - Banchero .528
37 - McCollum .539
38 - Rozier .517
42 - Barrett .530
45 - Oubre .532

And Kuzma has a worse TOV% than all of them.

Take a good look at that list. First of all, all of those teams are terrible except NY with Barrett. Secondly, most of the guys are rookie-contract guys on terrible teams who are learning on the job (Green, Banchero), or they are mediocre vets on terrible teams with no efficient first option scorers so someone has to take the shots (McCollum, Rozier, Oubre). Plus there's Westbrook, of course.

The player that resembles Kuzma the most is Oubre. Like Kuzma, Oubre is a 27-year old making roughly $13M on an expiring contract who is absorbing way more usage than he should be for a bad team. The difference is that nobody is talking about Oubre making $25M. He'll probably sign another deal in the $12-16M range.

The other guy that arguably resembles Kuzma a bit is Barrett. Like Kuzma, Barrett plays alongside two much better scorers (Randle and Brunson) but still shoots too much. One big difference is Barrett defends and his team wins. The other big difference is that Barrett is 22 and there is a presumption that he will improve going forward so he has been indulged to shoot more to work on his game. Barrett signed an extension off of his rookie deal last summer that pays him 4 years $107M.

Why in the world would anyone consider paying Kuzma the same contract Barrett got when Kuzma is 5 years older and has no real likelihood of improving? And even if they are reckless and stupid enough to consider paying Kuzma that much, they damn well better not consider paying him even more!

QED.

[GoneShammGone]

...Kuz is probably the most athletic 6'10 player attacking the rim in BB right now .He can get alittle wild but teams looking for his services ...will be big this summer , making this statement, {...Kuzma is a very very bad NBA player } look stupid.

The facts of the matter:

On the season, Kuzma ranks 28th in USG%. He posts a terrible TS% of .542. Only 2 players have a higher usage and lower TS%, Jalen Green, a 20-year-old on the bottom-feeder Houston Rockets, and Westbrook, who was cut from his team.

Of the top 50 guys in USG%, only 7 of them rank lower than Kuzma in TS%:

USG% rank - player - TS%
23 - Jalen Green .530
26 - Westbrook .502
28 - Kuzma .542
29 - Banchero .528
37 - McCollum .539
38 - Rozier .517
42 - Barrett .530
45 - Oubre .532

And Kuzma has a worse TOV% than all of them.

Take a good look at that list. First of all, all of those teams are terrible except NY with Barrett. Secondly, most of the guys are rookie-contract guys on terrible teams who are learning on the job (Green, Banchero), or they are mediocre vets on terrible teams with no efficient first option scorers so someone has to take the shots (McCollum, Rozier, Oubre). Plus there's Westbrook, of course.

The player that resembles Kuzma the most is Oubre. Like Kuzma, Oubre is a 27-year old making roughly $13M on an expiring contract who is absorbing way more usage than he should be for a bad team. The difference is that nobody is talking about Oubre making $25M. He'll probably sign another deal in the $12-16M range.

The other guy that arguably resembles Kuzma a bit is Barrett. Like Kuzma, Barrett plays alongside two much better scorers (Randle and Brunson) but still shoots too much. One big difference is Barrett defends and his team wins. The other big difference is that Barrett is 22 and there is a presumption that he will improve going forward so he has been indulged to shoot more to work on his game. Barrett signed an extension off of his rookie deal last summer that pays him 4 years $107M.

Why in the world would anyone consider paying Kuzma the same contract Barrett got when Kuzma is 5 years older and has no real likelihood of improving? And even if they are reckless and stupid enough to consider paying Kuzma that much, they damn well better not consider paying him even more!

QED.

Why is it that the stronger the evidence that exists for a certain proposition, the more I worry that the Wizards management believe the exact opposite? It's like we have Kyrie Irving for a GM.