Lillard: I don't want to be a part of a rebuild.

[DeBlazerRiddem]

It's just laughable how folks keep churning out the same tired old story.

[DusterBuster]

It's just laughable how folks keep churning out the same tired old story.

Agreed. That said, something does feel different about this offseason. I don't think it's different from Dame's side, but I think it is from the Blazers side. Cronin can't just do a repeat of what happened last summer, take the pick, make a decentish trade for a starting-level but non-serious impact player, and a 6-8th man FA signing. Making incremental changes isn't going to fix this team and I think at this point, all sides know that. If a major impact event doesn't happen by mid-July... meaning the Blazers getting a Top 3 pick or being able to trade for a true established All-Star level player... then I think it's on the Blazers/Cronin to make the decision and tell Dame they're trading him.

Keeping Dame around for another season of this with no real clear "this is a major improvement" event or path in front does no one any good. It wastes both Dame's time and the Blazers time. If you're going to trade him, this is probably the last year you can truly get max value return for Dame when he's coming off a year THIS good. I genuinely don't think he has another one of these level seasons in him, he's got plenty of years of still being a Top 10-15 player, but +30ppg, probably not, so definitely time to make the call now on keeping or moving him and if the team can't make that impact move to build with him, the only other option is to move off him and start over.

[Case2012]

We have the tools and assets too make significant improvements, the problem is we don’t have the ownership and management to make them. The first step towards contention is selling the team to someone that wants to win. The new Phoenix owner traded for KD on day 1.

I hate Knights politics but he would absolutely make the moves to contend right away given his age and wealth.

I would be shocked if that happened, but it’s what needs to be done both for the city and per Allen’s estate.

Trade the NY pick for the rights to our pick back and our asset problem is solved. Send Simons and 4 firsts for Brown, done. Maybe Sharpe and Simons, eff it, just send less picks or get some other players back like White. Use the remaining picks to ditch Nurkic for an upgrade like WCJ or Turner along with some bench depth. Resign Thybulle, maybe resign Grant who i don’t love but is still an offensive threat on good efficiency. Maybe we could pull that off while keeping our lottery pick and trade for another piece with that or just not include sharpe in the deal

Dame/White
Sharpe/Thybulle
Brown/Nas
Grant/Watford
Turner/Eubanks

That’s got offense, defense, shooting but not much rebounding. idk, still would be the best team Dame has ever played on and you have to factor in vet minimum deals by ring chasers.

[DusterBuster]

We have the tools and assets too make significant improvements, the problem is we don’t have the ownership and management to make them. The first step towards contention is selling the team to someone that wants to win. The new Phoenix owner traded for KD on day 1.

I hate Knights politics but he would absolutely make the moves to contend right away given his age and wealth.

I would be shocked if that happened, but it’s what needs to be done both for the city and per Allen’s estate.

Trade the NY pick for the rights to our pick back and our asset problem is solved. Send Simons and 4 firsts for Brown, done. Maybe Sharpe and Simons, eff it, just send less picks or get some other players back like White. Use the remaining picks to ditch Nurkic for an upgrade like WCJ or Turner along with some bench depth. Resign Thybulle, maybe resign Grant who i don’t love but is still an offensive threat on good efficiency. Maybe we could pull that off while keeping our lottery pick and trade for another piece with that or just not include sharpe in the deal

Dame/White
Sharpe/Thybulle
Brown/Nas
Grant/Watford
Turner/Eubanks

That’s got offense, defense, shooting but not much rebounding. idk, still would be the best team Dame has ever played on and you have to factor in vet minimum deals by ring chasers.

This would be a team worth keep Dame around for again. That said, I'm skeptical the Blazers can get Turner (or any other player) from Indiana. There's some pretty deep resentment it still sounds like from Pritchard against the Vulcans. As long as they still own and operate the franchise, I think KP has their number on block or is requiring 1.50 on the dollar in any trade with Portland.

[BlazersBroncos]

If Boston moved Brown I strongly feel its for another star caliber guy, not a one trick pony shooter like Simons and a grab bag of picks. Tatum is in his prime now, they need to get guys that help win now. Wouldnt surprise me to see a Brown for Pascal swap, which obviously would be a horrible situation for PDX as those are 2 of the only attainable (If that) needle movers that may be on the block.

Also think Turner would require our FRP, which assumedly would have gone out in any trade for Brown.

I am just more pessimistic that we have the assets to make a move that nets two starter caliber guys like Brown and Myles.

[DusterBuster]

If Boston moved Brown I strongly feel its for another star caliber guy, not a one trick pony shooter like Simons and a grab bag of picks. Tatum is in his prime now, they need to get guys that help win now. Wouldnt surprise me to see a Brown for Pascal swap, which obviously would be a horrible situation for PDX as those are 2 of the only attainable (If that) needle movers that may be on the block.

Also think Turner would require our FRP, which assumedly would have gone out in any trade for Brown.

I am just more pessimistic that we have the assets to make a move that nets two starter caliber guys like Brown and Myles.

Why would Toronto do that? Brown plays the same position(s) as Scottie Barnes. Doesn't seem to make a ton of sense for the Raptors.

If the Celtics are forced to move Brown, they'll just take the best deal they can. I'm sure they'd like a star caliber player in return, but if that's not there, they can take a truck full of assets in high-end young talent and picks, then look to swap that into a star in a year or two. Tatum is young enough that he's got a ton of prime years still left.

[m0ng0]

Sheesh, just think if we were playing hard this late in the season with year one of a rebuild. Just think if we did exactly the same thing except we traded Dame and didn't pick up Grant? Maybe one of the big 3 from last year's draft? Oh and maybe enough draft capitol to be in the running for trading up to #1 this off season. I would rather be watching this team playing hard and improving at the end of the season as opposed to 4 of our 5 starters in street clothes. For the second year in a row. And probably lots of cap space. Look at where we are right now, crappy and no hope.

[BlazersBroncos]

If Boston moved Brown I strongly feel its for another star caliber guy, not a one trick pony shooter like Simons and a grab bag of picks. Tatum is in his prime now, they need to get guys that help win now. Wouldnt surprise me to see a Brown for Pascal swap, which obviously would be a horrible situation for PDX as those are 2 of the only attainable (If that) needle movers that may be on the block.

Also think Turner would require our FRP, which assumedly would have gone out in any trade for Brown.

I am just more pessimistic that we have the assets to make a move that nets two starter caliber guys like Brown and Myles.

Why would Toronto do that? Brown plays the same position(s) as Scottie Barnes. Doesn't seem to make a ton of sense for the Raptors.

If the Celtics are forced to move Brown, they'll just take the best deal they can. I'm sure they'd like a star caliber player in return, but if that's not there, they can take a truck full of assets in high-end young talent and picks, then look to swap that into a star in a year or two. Tatum is young enough that he's got a ton of prime years still left.

Brown can play SG (His career shows about a 50/50 split at SG and SF) and Scottie is best at PF. It balances the heck out of Toronto w/ Brown / OG / Barnes.

[DusterBuster]

If Boston moved Brown I strongly feel its for another star caliber guy, not a one trick pony shooter like Simons and a grab bag of picks. Tatum is in his prime now, they need to get guys that help win now. Wouldnt surprise me to see a Brown for Pascal swap, which obviously would be a horrible situation for PDX as those are 2 of the only attainable (If that) needle movers that may be on the block.

Also think Turner would require our FRP, which assumedly would have gone out in any trade for Brown.

I am just more pessimistic that we have the assets to make a move that nets two starter caliber guys like Brown and Myles.

Why would Toronto do that? Brown plays the same position(s) as Scottie Barnes. Doesn't seem to make a ton of sense for the Raptors.

If the Celtics are forced to move Brown, they'll just take the best deal they can. I'm sure they'd like a star caliber player in return, but if that's not there, they can take a truck full of assets in high-end young talent and picks, then look to swap that into a star in a year or two. Tatum is young enough that he's got a ton of prime years still left.

Brown can play SG (His career shows about a 50/50 split at SG and SF) and Scottie is best at PF. It balances the heck out of Toronto w/ Brown / OG / Barnes.

I still don't buy it. It makes them wildly undersized and for not much gain in actually being that improved. At very best, it seems like a pretty lateral move.

[DusterBuster]

Sheesh, just think if we were playing hard this late in the season with year one of a rebuild. Just think if we did exactly the same thing except we traded Dame and didn't pick up Grant? Maybe one of the big 3 from last year's draft? Oh and maybe enough draft capitol to be in the running for trading up to #1 this off season. I would rather be watching this team playing hard and improving at the end of the season as opposed to 4 of our 5 starters in street clothes. For the second year in a row. And probably lots of cap space. Look at where we are right now, crappy and no hope.

Cap space is and always will be utterly meaningless for the Portland TrailBlazers when it comes to acquiring top-end talent.

[BlazersBroncos]

Why would Toronto do that? Brown plays the same position(s) as Scottie Barnes. Doesn't seem to make a ton of sense for the Raptors.

If the Celtics are forced to move Brown, they'll just take the best deal they can. I'm sure they'd like a star caliber player in return, but if that's not there, they can take a truck full of assets in high-end young talent and picks, then look to swap that into a star in a year or two. Tatum is young enough that he's got a ton of prime years still left.

Brown can play SG (His career shows about a 50/50 split at SG and SF) and Scottie is best at PF. It balances the heck out of Toronto w/ Brown / OG / Barnes.

I still don't buy it. It makes them wildly undersized and for not much gain in actually being that improved. At very best, it seems like a pretty lateral move.

Wildly undersized?

SG - Brown 6'6 220lbs
SF - OG 6'7 232lbs
PF - Scottie 6'8 227lbs

I feel like we are talking about different players, not trying to be a smartass either lol.

[m0ng0]

Sheesh, just think if we were playing hard this late in the season with year one of a rebuild. Just think if we did exactly the same thing except we traded Dame and didn't pick up Grant? Maybe one of the big 3 from last year's draft? Oh and maybe enough draft capitol to be in the running for trading up to #1 this off season. I would rather be watching this team playing hard and improving at the end of the season as opposed to 4 of our 5 starters in street clothes. For the second year in a row. And probably lots of cap space. Look at where we are right now, crappy and no hope.

Cap space is and always will be utterly meaningless for the Portland TrailBlazers when it comes to acquiring top-end talent.

Good point!

[HoopsFanAZ]

Media types like Sham are in the dog house. And can stay there.
After the craptastic hit job on Blazers medical personnel and management -- with minor tweaks to a lie and with no public apology or so much as "my bad" for carrying Golden State's water, now Shams is going to break a story with Dame could be available this summer! Seriously? He could've come here for more accurate reasoning, and the plan that's been a plan B since the beginning of the season.

I understand the disbelief on this forum in the Vulcans or J. Allen choosing to go into the tax ... they will be next year ...
Or to build a contending team around Dame and doing what it takes ...
BUT Olshey was NEVER this transparent, nor do I remember him accepting responsibility for anything that didn't pan out.

So I believe Cronin ... and Chauncy ... and Dame ... and even J. Allen are on the same page about building around Dame. The moves so far make sense for fixing the salary wreck, getting trade capital, swinging deep on Shaedon, signing Grant using a TPE, getting another 1st rounder ... freeing up the picks by cutting a deal with Chicago to accept the Knicks pick, instead of a future Portland pick ...

Yeah, I see a path forward THIS FRICKING SUMMER. I'm optimistic and if Cronin can't get it done going all-in, then Dame is HIGHLY LIKELY the plan B and go young. No ****, Charania. Glad he made it to the party.

[The Sebastian Express]

I think Shams has taken a huge hit both from his Warriors story, plus his rush to get the Ime story out in the summer which caused a lot of hurt and harassment of women in the Celtics' organization.

[DusterBuster]

With the Celtics season going less sideways and more straight down and talk of Jaylen Brown clearly unhappy there, it does make me wonder if the Celtics would consider a non-Dame trade for him. A deal like Simons, Sharpe, the #6 pick, then a 2024 swap and 2025 top 4 protected (I’m assuming Cornin will be able to pay off the Bulls obligation via the Knicks pick this summer).

Seems like a bit of an overpay for Brown, but I also think it would require an overpay for any non-Dame for Brown deal.

I do think that deal would do a good job of still giving the Celtics win-now players, but also players and assets to keep building the team long-term.

[The Sebastian Express]

With the Celtics season going less sideways and more straight down and talk of Jaylen Brown clearly unhappy there, it does make me wonder if the Celtics would consider a non-Dame trade for him. A deal like Simons, Sharpe, the #6 pick, then a 2024 swap and 2025 top 4 protected (I’m assuming Cornin will be able to pay off the Bulls obligation via the Knicks pick this summer).

Seems like a bit of an overpay for Brown, but I also think it would require an overpay for any non-Dame for Brown deal.

I do think that deal would do a good job of still giving the Celtics win-now players, but also players and assets to keep building the team long-term.

it is an overpay. He's got one year left on his contract, he's never been All NBA, never been all-defense. He's only been an all-star twice. I don't see why we're giving a solid piece with good shooting on volume in Anfernee plus Shaedon PLUS a lottery pick PLUS a swap. PLUS another pick.

I understand Boston would want this and demand this, but I don't see how that's good for us at all. This just isn't a deal I'd make. Ever. He's one year left!

[DusterBuster]

With the Celtics season going less sideways and more straight down and talk of Jaylen Brown clearly unhappy there, it does make me wonder if the Celtics would consider a non-Dame trade for him. A deal like Simons, Sharpe, the #6 pick, then a 2024 swap and 2025 top 4 protected (I’m assuming Cornin will be able to pay off the Bulls obligation via the Knicks pick this summer).

Seems like a bit of an overpay for Brown, but I also think it would require an overpay for any non-Dame for Brown deal.

I do think that deal would do a good job of still giving the Celtics win-now players, but also players and assets to keep building the team long-term.

it is an overpay. He's got one year left on his contract, he's never been All NBA, never been all-defense. He's only been an all-star twice. I don't see why we're giving a solid piece with good shooting on volume in Anfernee plus Shaedon PLUS a lottery pick PLUS a swap. PLUS another pick.

I understand Boston would want this and demand this, but I don't see how that's good for us at all. This just isn't a deal I'd make. Ever. He's one year left!

I should have mentioned that any deal for Brown, I would expect to be a trade and extend, not just a trade with him only having one year left.

Portland shouldn’t trade anything for him without guaranteeing he stays beyond the one year.

I should also add, that you're correct, it doesn't "seem like" an overpay, it is. It's also the going price in the NBA these days for All-NBA talent in their mid-20's. But again, that's the going price for that kind of talent... when they have multiple years on their deal. No teal is going to pay Boston's asking price unless he's being traded and extended, so I'm expecting that's going to be baked into any Brown deal, regardless of where he ends up. So where Brown wants to be will play a part in this as well.

[red_power]

The only situation when you sell a house to get a guy is when this guy is an MVP-race caliber player. Which is definitely not Brown.
Plus keep in mind that Blazers have a big hole around the rim and it's something that will need to get fixed if we want to build a truly mean team. That dictates the necessity of keeping some assets to fix that as well.

So replace Ant with Nurk as a salary filler at least and I think we might come closer to a deal that looks reasonable for Blazers. Then shop Ant for some big man upgrade.. Or simply take BPA in the draft and then make a fire sale of all experienced players if FO can't land anybody meaningful with the current pool of assets.

[DusterBuster]

The only situation when you sell a house to get a guy is when this guy is an MVP-race caliber player. Which is definitely not Brown.
Plus keep in mind that Blazers have a big hole around the rim and it's something that will need to be fixed if we want to build a truly serious team. That dictates the necessity of keeping some assets to fix that as well.

So replace Ant with Nurk as a salary filler at least and I think we might come closer to a deal that looks reasonable for Blazers. Then shop Ant for some big man upgrade.. Or simply take BPA in the draft and then make a fire sale of all experienced players if FO can't land anybody meaningful with the current pool of assets.

Jaylen Brown is averaging almost 27ppg. He's not "MVP-race caliber", but he'd be far and away the best player Dame's ever played with. He's also one of the few players I'd consider trading Dame straight up for should that be the scenario as well (again, if extended).

We can all sit here and say who we'd rather swap out, but the fact of the matter is it's pretty clear that's the package the Celtics would demand in any non-Lillard trade for Brown.

[m0ng0]

I don't see risking the future in every way to get Brown, even with those two it's not putting us over the top. Who do we put around them? And besides that we are just scratching the surface with Sharpe and possibly even Ant. Look at what we got in the draft this psst year. I don't wanna see our "big two" in street clothes by game 72.