The TJ Warren Thread!

[lilfishi22]

I love Monty but this is a weird comment. I guess the positive is that he listened to the other coaches, and was honest about being closed minded, but with this team and the injuries, and roster changes, why be closed minded? How could the other coaches know and have to convince him?



https://www.gophnx.com/2023/03/26/phoenix-suns-give-tj-warren-fair-shake-tony-buckets-delivers/

I think it's a common thing for a lot of coaches to trust the guys they know, know their strengths, weaknesses and expectations and it's often an injury which pushes end of bench guys to get some burn. Not saying it's the right thing to do but I understand and I certainly would've liked TJ to have gotten more playing time but at the same time, I totally understand it's not always about what you can do in isolation but rather what you can do to facilitate for the team (ie moving the ball, playing team defense etc etc).

Okogie likely wouldn't have gotten an opportunity if Bridges wasn't moved for example. It's a fair criticism of Monty

Yeah, but Ross was new too. Now I know they probably promised him time but even Ish was playing a lot more than TJ.

I think the promised minutes is one factor with the other being that Ross has a decade in the league of doing exactly what he's doing, coming off the bench and putting up points. Like we know what to expect from him. And I also think he has a style that just fits easier than TJ (at least from the get go) because he's a fast decision maker and the ball doesn't stay in his hands for long. Just looking at their time on ball, Ross held the ball for less time and dribbled less than TJ before either guys were on the team.

Not saying one guy is better than the other because they are very different players but just seems like Ross was more plug and play especially when all he had to do was be Shamet but shoot better and dribble even less.

[sunsfan1o1]

I think it's a common thing for a lot of coaches to trust the guys they know, know their strengths, weaknesses and expectations and it's often an injury which pushes end of bench guys to get some burn. Not saying it's the right thing to do but I understand and I certainly would've liked TJ to have gotten more playing time but at the same time, I totally understand it's not always about what you can do in isolation but rather what you can do to facilitate for the team (ie moving the ball, playing team defense etc etc).

Okogie likely wouldn't have gotten an opportunity if Bridges wasn't moved for example. It's a fair criticism of Monty

Yeah, but Ross was new too. Now I know they probably promised him time but even Ish was playing a lot more than TJ.

I think the promised minutes is one factor with the other being that Ross has a decade in the league of doing exactly what he's doing, coming off the bench and putting up points. Like we know what to expect from him. And I also think he has a style that just fits easier than TJ (at least from the get go) because he's a fast decision maker and the ball doesn't stay in his hands for long. Just looking at their time on ball, Ross held the ball for less time and dribbled less than TJ before either guys were on the team.

Not saying one guy is better than the other because they are very different players but just seems like Ross was more plug and play especially when all he had to do was be Shamet but shoot better and dribble even less.

You’re making excuses for Monty Williams.
You’re in denial. The first step is to admit there’s a problem.
Monty Williams just isn’t that great of a coach.
Like I said before there are probably 15-20 coaches that I would rank better than him.
He doesn’t do anything. It’s his players, or assistants.

[Saberestar]

I love Monty but this is a weird comment. I guess the positive is that he listened to the other coaches, and was honest about being closed minded, but with this team and the injuries, and roster changes, why be closed minded? How could the other coaches know and have to convince him?



https://www.gophnx.com/2023/03/26/phoenix-suns-give-tj-warren-fair-shake-tony-buckets-delivers/

I think it's a common thing for a lot of coaches to trust the guys they know, know their strengths, weaknesses and expectations and it's often an injury which pushes end of bench guys to get some burn. Not saying it's the right thing to do but I understand and I certainly would've liked TJ to have gotten more playing time but at the same time, I totally understand it's not always about what you can do in isolation but rather what you can do to facilitate for the team (ie moving the ball, playing team defense etc etc).

Okogie likely wouldn't have gotten an opportunity if Bridges wasn't moved for example. It's a fair criticism of Monty

Yeah, but Ross was new too. Now I know they probably promised him time but even Ish was playing a lot more than TJ.

That's the point.

We got Ross because James Jones and Monty offered him a big role coming from the bench...and was a great decision because he is playing really well.

Ish Wainright and Damion Lee were part of the rotation when we were playing great and winning games so Monty didn't want to change it.

[lilfishi22]

Yeah, but Ross was new too. Now I know they probably promised him time but even Ish was playing a lot more than TJ.

I think the promised minutes is one factor with the other being that Ross has a decade in the league of doing exactly what he's doing, coming off the bench and putting up points. Like we know what to expect from him. And I also think he has a style that just fits easier than TJ (at least from the get go) because he's a fast decision maker and the ball doesn't stay in his hands for long. Just looking at their time on ball, Ross held the ball for less time and dribbled less than TJ before either guys were on the team.

Not saying one guy is better than the other because they are very different players but just seems like Ross was more plug and play especially when all he had to do was be Shamet but shoot better and dribble even less.

You’re making excuses for Monty Williams.
You’re in denial. The first step is to admit there’s a problem.
Monty Williams just isn’t that great of a coach.
Like I said before there are probably 15-20 coaches that I would rank better than him.
He doesn’t do anything. It’s his players, or assistants.

Never said he was flawless

[Saberestar]

I love Monty but this is a weird comment. I guess the positive is that he listened to the other coaches, and was honest about being closed minded, but with this team and the injuries, and roster changes, why be closed minded? How could the other coaches know and have to convince him?



https://www.gophnx.com/2023/03/26/phoenix-suns-give-tj-warren-fair-shake-tony-buckets-delivers/

It also makes me wonder whether the playing time for TJ is temporary, or whether Monty is willing to be convinced he can be a starter (or at least finisher) once KD is back. If he can keep up the high-efficiency scoring while holding his own with hustle and rebounding, that’s the lineup that leaves opponents with nothing but bad options trying to stop the Suns - four players who demand extra attention, and a fifth whose calling card is finding and exploiting where the D has had to bend.

I can't see WHY he would not keep playing with him if he's putting up #s like he has the last two games:

Last 2 games: 31 points total, 14-25 FG, 3-8 3P, +32 in 56 minutes

As high as I was and have always been on TJ, and even wanting to trade for him...been meaning to say "I was right! We just got KD in addition instead of Patty Mills or Seth Curry and added 4 firsts, a swap, Bridges and Cam in addition to my proposal of Crowder."

My main excitement is if we could maybe keep him for the minimum. OR, if he continues, sign him to the tax MLE to a 2 or 3 year deal with team option and get bird rights. (not sure since we have him this year if we'd only need a 2 year contract (which we could do 1+1) or not. But he could be kind of a nice consolation prize scoring option to have going forward. He's still only 29 and has a lot less mileage on him than most at that age.

If he could keep it up and stick around, for me it would help soften the blow I feel for losing Mikal a little bit at least because I was always a fan. I like the humble guys who just put their head down and hoop, don't complain to refs, etc....just hoop.

I think we can keep most of our guys because some of them will only get minimum deals.

We can use the full tax MLE on Okogie ($21M, 3 years) and use the BAE ($5M, 2 years) on Warren.

That can change quickly with how they play in the playoffs but so far those contracts for their production (and past injuries) looks fair to me.

I wouldn't be surprised if Warren outplays every other wing player and we have to pay him the full tax MLE to him next summer.

[RaisingArizona]

Monty is kind of a bad talent evaluator. The guy wanted shamet. He wasn't going to play TJ until he was literally out of options.

[Saberestar]

Last 4 games:

Suns overall point differential: +15

TJ, in about half of those minutes: +55

Read on Twitter

So after two DNP games, Monty finally gave him a big role coming from the bench and he has been great on both sides in four consecutive games.

11.5 points and 4.8 boards in 24 minutes per game.

[sunsbg]

Ross with more shots than Ayton as expected. The shot-per-minute man.

[Saberestar]

Ross with more shots than Ayton as expected. The shot-per-minute man.

I can't complain about it, that's the way he plays and that's why James Jones and Monty wanted him on the Suns. Terrific offensive weapon.

He can win a game for you when he is hot. If he has a bad scoring game he will go to the bench, they know how to manage these type of players.

[sunsbg]

Ross with more shots than Ayton as expected. The shot-per-minute man.

I can't complain about it, that's the way he plays and that's why James Jones and Monty wanted him on the Suns. Terrific offensive weapon.

He can win a game for you when he is hot. If he has a bad scoring game he will go to the bench, they know how to manage these type of players.

Thought I'm posting in the game thread. I hope so. It's really nice to have someone who can put quick points off the bench, but this game is not really an indication of managing him well after shooting 5-14. Crowder used to shoot too much, Okogie was 2-10 from 3 against the Mavs recently. That said, though Ross is one of the most trigger happy players I have seen, I don't expect he takes so many shots in a playoff game if he's not hitting.

[Fo-Real]

TJ starting to mesh, weather its him adjusting to his game or him adjusting to where he can be effective. With Durant back, I keep TJ as the backup pf OVER Craig!!!

[Maze]

Once TJ fully knocks off the rust, he'll be the Suns best bench player.Ross is a gamble.He'll shoot you out of the game vs better teams.TJ has always been somewhat of a black hole on offense, but he's more efficient.When it looked like the Jazz were going to make a runs, TJ made a few mid range jumpers to keep Utah at bay.I was fully confident when every shot left his hand.Other than KD & Book, I have the most confidence in TJ on this team offensively.i could see him sneaking up & surprising some teams in the playoffs.

[lilfishi22]

Last 4 games:

Suns overall point differential: +15

TJ, in about half of those minutes: +55

Read on Twitter

So after two DNP games, Monty finally gave him a big role coming from the bench and he has been great on both sides in four consecutive games.

11.5 points and 4.8 boards in 24 minutes per game.

I think he was like 2nd worst on the team for BPM (ahead of Bazley) before these last few games. Great to see him showing out

[lilfishi22]

Ross with more shots than Ayton as expected. The shot-per-minute man.

Off the bench gunners tend to have a higher shot rate. Not sure about this year but Payne has always been in the top 5 in per100 attempts. DWJr was up there too

[sunsbg]

Ross with more shots than Ayton as expected. The shot-per-minute man.

Off the bench gunners tend to have a higher shot rate. Not sure about this year but Payne has always been in the top 5 in per100 attempts. DWJr was up there too

Half of his shots in last game I would classify as contested bad shots. He's a chucker who would take a bad shot rather than pass to an open teammate. DWJr was similar indeed, which was probably the reason they got rid of him despite looking like the second coming of Steph in a few games. Payne is still putting some assists and will usually find the open teammate. We can only hope his shots are falling against better playoff defenses.

[Saberestar]

Ross with more shots than Ayton as expected. The shot-per-minute man.

Off the bench gunners tend to have a higher shot rate. Not sure about this year but Payne has always been in the top 5 in per100 attempts. DWJr was up there too

Half of his shots in last game I would classify as contested bad shots. He's a chucker who would take a bad shot rather than pass to an open teammate. DWJr was similar indeed, which was probably the reason they got rid of him despite looking like the second coming of Steph in a few games. Payne is still putting some assists and will usually find the open teammate. We can only hope his shots are falling against better playoff defenses.

A contested shot is not a bad shot for everyone, depends on the skillset.

Ross is a professional scorer and that's why he can take difficult shots and those can be considered good shots.

After all the "bad" shots that he is taken on the Suns he is shooting .397% from three and .603 TS%

He is doing his job. 11.2 points, 3.2 rebounds and 1.6 assists in just 19 mpg.

IMO he needs to improve a bit his overall defense. Just that.

[lilfishi22]

Ross with more shots than Ayton as expected. The shot-per-minute man.

Off the bench gunners tend to have a higher shot rate. Not sure about this year but Payne has always been in the top 5 in per100 attempts. DWJr was up there too

Half of his shots in last game I would classify as contested bad shots. He's a chucker who would take a bad shot rather than pass to an open teammate. DWJr was similar indeed, which was probably the reason they got rid of him despite looking like the second coming of Steph in a few games. Payne is still putting some assists and will usually find the open teammate. We can only hope his shots are falling against better playoff defenses.

There will always be a role for "chucker" sixth man types. They aren't there to try and get the best shot for the team but the best shot in their eyes and it's hard to fault Ross when he has a 46/40/83 shooting splits (57% from 2pt) and also dropping 3 dimes a game (almost 5 assist to 1 TO). Ross may not be the highest end 6MOY type but he's serviceable and for guys in these roles, I expect mistakes, heat checks, poor decisions and bad defense but it's very clear what he's here to do.

[sunsbg]

A contested shot is not a bad shot for everyone, depends on the skillset.

For me bricking a contested two while there is another player open on the 3pt line is a bad shot, but to each their own.

[Saberestar]

A contested shot is not a bad shot for everyone, depends on the skillset.

For me bricking a contested two while there is another player open on the 3pt line is a bad shot, but to each their own.

Do you prefer a contested two shot from KD or a open 3p shot from Okogie?

[sunsbg]

A contested shot is not a bad shot for everyone, depends on the skillset.

For me bricking a contested two while there is another player open on the 3pt line is a bad shot, but to each their own.

Do you prefer a contested shot from KD or a open 3p shot from Okogie?

Do you prefer contested 2 from Ross or open 3 from Warren ? There is a reason Okogie had 10 3pt shots vs Mavs. Open shots are generally better. Even someone like Okogie/Ish will usually hit them when open. Not to mention the morale hit teammates take playing with a black hole. KD didn't do too well on his contested shots vs Celtics. Comparing Ross and KD doesn't sound right at all.