Trade Discussion 22/23

[Jg41]

I know it's easier to say in retrospect, but our shot at a championship after the Kyrie trade was always a long one. The roster simply has to be reconstructed to adequately evaluate the duo's ceiling.

The hardest job in the sport is to acquire a young franchise superstar. We've done that. The next hardest job is to find him a complimentary co-star. While the jury is still out on that, Kyrie appears to have more than sufficiently matured on and off the court, and the influence he'll have on future recruiting (both tangibly and reputationally) makes his retention a must. With these guys in place, you have to give Nico the chance to build around them.

If they can execute the trade above; a core of Kyrie, Luka, Josh, Maxi, Dorian, & Hardy would be a rim protecter (Myles Turner) away from legitimate contention.

[ozwizard8]

I know it's easier to say in retrospect, but our shot at a championship after the Kyrie trade was always a long one. The roster simply has to be reconstructed to adequately evaluate the duo's ceiling.

The hardest job in the sport is to acquire a young franchise superstar. We've done that. The next hardest job is to find him a complimentary co-star. While the jury is still out on that, Kyrie appears to have more than sufficiently matured on and off the court, and the influence he'll have on future recruiting (both tangibly and reputationally) makes his retention a must. With these guys in place, you have to give Nico the chance to build around them.

If they can execute the trade above; a core of Kyrie, Luka, Josh, Maxi, Dorian, & Hardy would be a rim protecter (Myles Turner) away from legitimate contention.

If you keep making bad trades then you can never built around your star player and you'll end up trading him. While K.Love was never at Luka level, he was doing great with Wolves. They **** up with signings and trades and ended up rebuilding. Cavs did better as they got too many ring chasers so Lebron stayed until his extension finishes.

A.Davis could be another example. Pelicans did better job IMO but Davis was kept getting injured Jrue was very unlucky as his wife got cancer. Cousins injured etc. Good thing Pelicans did was trading A.Davis before it was too late. They got Ingram and some assets including Lakers' top pick. Also NBA bribed them with Zion in exchange of sending A.Davis to LA market with Lebron.
Other than Zion's injury luck they did not needed to tank to get back into playoffs. A very quick rebuild.

Right now its a great time to trade Luka. If Gobert and Durant got that many picks as 30+ players, Luka would get even more for Mavs.

* Randle+RJ Barrett+3 first round picks? Kyrie-Green-RJ-Randle-Wood plus assets. No tanking, straight to the competition.
* 6 first round picks + Chet Holmgren? Tank/rebuild 2 years.
* J. Brown + picks?
* Ingram+ CJ + picks for Luka + Bertans

[ozwizard8]

Does Omer Yurtseven play defense? Could be a viable center candidate this offseason.

If the Mavs miss out on centers, there is always Nikola Vucevic or Bismack Biyombo.

- You shouldn't expect more than 15 mpg for Biyombo and probably not more than 40-50 games per season.

- Vucevic does not solve any defensive problems. At this age I doubt he can play a starter role for a playoff team.

- Yurtseven is young. Defensively he is not that fast, athletic or tall enough to be a rim-protecting big man. Then again he is good at rebounding, he has good hands and finish oops and p&r plays nicely. All those makes him a candidate to be reserve big men in the league. He is still trying to prove himself for that type of role. Zubac-lite?

[Teffer10]

Kyrie is smart and playing it cool so he'll get that huge contract from Cuban.

Best we can hope for is S&T to hopefully yield a young big and hopefully a pick.

I could get on board with a young core of Luka/Hardy/Green/Wood/Ayton

Young with an upside.

If we straight out sign Kyrie, this team will be ruined for years.

[ozwizard8]

5 year deal for kyrie is a bad idea... Mavs should sign him for a 2 year max and see how the team plays. Also 70m for Green seems a lot...

It does not work like that. He is not in R.Westbrook situation in terms of image/value. But he has not contributed any team to win anything in last 6 years. So he wont be able to trust himself. He is already 31, and for small guards, these ages are where they turn into pumpkins. See --> Kemba.

So Kyrie will seek for at least 4-year deal. Lets be honest Kyrie or almost any aging player would go for 4-year max, even if it's a rebuilding team. Harrison Barnes is still in Kings because they were the one paying him more, same stuff with M.Turner.

So if Mavs offer 2-year $85m
and Rockets offer 4-year $180m then Kyrie can go and sign with Rockets. Perhaps Rockets will draft Wenbenyama to couple with their young assets and immediately seek out for best FAs available while their star prospects are on rookie deals. After all, he can always ask for a trade. The same can happen with Spurs too.

Or how about Orlando Magic? Franz-Bankero-Wenbenyama front-court. You have cap space and Kyrie available for no asset. They can roll the dice.
If there is a team that likes Kyrie, then they can try to open cap space to sign Kyrie. Bulls can trade expiring Derozan and Caruso without sweating. Pelicans trade expiring JV and adding 1st pick to send CJ Mccollum?

The point is Mavs will give Kyrie a 4/5-year max deal, lose him like Brunson or sign&trade.
Lakers-LAC-Miami are top destinations that would not worry about 4-year max deal to aging star.

[ozwizard8]

Kyrie is smart and playing it cool so he'll get that huge contract from Cuban.

Best we can hope for is S&T to hopefully yield a young big and hopefully a pick.

I could get on board with a young core of Luka/Hardy/Green/Wood/Ayton

Young with an upside.

If we straight out sign Kyrie, this team will be ruined for years.

Both Kyrie and Wood situation is similar. I am up for playing Wood more at PF to end this season. But starting a season with him as a wing defender is a lost season.

Mavs messed up big time. For a sign&trade we cant expect much. Mavs will be forced to hand 4-year max at least.
If you remember Cuban giving 5 year max to KP who was an RFA that is not played for 1.5 years then you know Cuban get fleeced again. Sign&trade is better than losing for nothing. That also implies the opposing team to not give up much for the asset of Kyrie 4-year max deal. 2 protected first round picks is my prediction with a potential salary filler.

LAC: N.Powell or Eric Gordon (nonguarentee deal) + Covington + 2 picks
LAL: Mo Bamba + Beasley or D'Angelo + filler + 2 picks

Mavs lost Nash-Chandler-Brunson while they were playing great. Nash won MVP, Chandler won DPOY, and Brunson will either won MIP, or selected to ASG next year. We gave unreasonable contracts for KP and THJ just recently. Who were we competing against for RFA Porzingis with injuries? Who would give that contract to THJ?

[Mavrelous]

* Randle+RJ Barrett+3 first round picks? Kyrie-Green-RJ-Randle-Wood plus assets. No tanking, straight to the competition.
* 6 first round picks + Chet Holmgren? Tank/rebuild 2 years.
* J. Brown + picks?
* Ingram+ CJ + picks for Luka + Bertans

If that's the return, I'd keep Luka and roll with 1st round exists...
It'd take much bigger package than this.

[arkuo]

Does Omer Yurtseven play defense? Could be a viable center candidate this offseason.

If the Mavs miss out on centers, there is always Nikola Vucevic or Bismack Biyombo.

- You shouldn't expect more than 15 mpg for Biyombo and probably not more than 40-50 games per season.

- Vucevic does not solve any defensive problems. At this age I doubt he can play a starter role for a playoff team.

- Yurtseven is young. Defensively he is not that fast, athletic or tall enough to be a rim-protecting big man. Then again he is good at rebounding, he has good hands and finish oops and p&r plays nicely. All those makes him a candidate to be reserve big men in the league. He is still trying to prove himself for that type of role. Zubac-lite?

Vucevic is the only guy Luka can realistically recruit right now. Mavs need to get desperate and send 2 FRPs to Indiana for Myles Turner now. That's the only way Indiana says yes to helping out the Mavs. No way they will do it for free.

[41Dirk41]

I know it's easier to say in retrospect, but our shot at a championship after the Kyrie trade was always a long one. The roster simply has to be reconstructed to adequately evaluate the duo's ceiling.

The hardest job in the sport is to acquire a young franchise superstar. We've done that. The next hardest job is to find him a complimentary co-star. While the jury is still out on that, Kyrie appears to have more than sufficiently matured on and off the court, and the influence he'll have on future recruiting (both tangibly and reputationally) makes his retention a must. With these guys in place, you have to give Nico the chance to build around them.

If they can execute the trade above; a core of Kyrie, Luka, Josh, Maxi, Dorian, & Hardy would be a rim protecter (Myles Turner) away from legitimate contention.

If you keep making bad trades then you can never built around your star player and you'll end up trading him. While K.Love was never at Luka level, he was doing great with Wolves. They **** up with signings and trades and ended up rebuilding. Cavs did better as they got too many ring chasers so Lebron stayed until his extension finishes.

A.Davis could be another example. Pelicans did better job IMO but Davis was kept getting injured Jrue was very unlucky as his wife got cancer. Cousins injured etc. Good thing Pelicans did was trading A.Davis before it was too late. They got Ingram and some assets including Lakers' top pick. Also NBA bribed them with Zion in exchange of sending A.Davis to LA market with Lebron.
Other than Zion's injury luck they did not needed to tank to get back into playoffs. A very quick rebuild.

Right now its a great time to trade Luka. If Gobert and Durant got that many picks as 30+ players, Luka would get even more for Mavs.

* Randle+RJ Barrett+3 first round picks? Kyrie-Green-RJ-Randle-Wood plus assets. No tanking, straight to the competition.
* 6 first round picks + Chet Holmgren? Tank/rebuild 2 years.
* J. Brown + picks?
* Ingram+ CJ + picks for Luka + Bertans

We will see if OKC or the Pelicans will ever win a ring... It's easier build a PO team, the difficult part is the next level. Contender team.

Luka + 10 scrubs was a PO perennial PO team. Easy.
Contender? This the hardest part...

[SOUNDCHASER]

We need to see about doing what we did last year when we got Hardy. Making a trade for a 2nd rounder that is early enough to get a decent enough player that it might be worth taking a gamble on.

My pick in the 2nd would be Zach Edey a 7'4" 290 center from Purdue that is a decent inside scoring threat and not too slow for his size so he can actually do some decent defending at the rim and rebounding while doing his best to mimic Boban or Yao Ming with a high Per that would lead the league and soft hands to score a lot of easy buckets and that will make it impossible for teams to play off of him and he hits free throws at a decent enough rate as well so if he can draw a lot of fouls making people try to stop him on offense we can generate a lot of free throws and have a new way to attack teams when we have to absolutely score.

Retaining Wood might be smart then we could use him at PF and have scoring threats at all 5 positions and after that we could focus on adding defense in the 2nd team. Luka Irving Wood Hardy Zach is 5 decent consistent scoring threats and you hope that Green also gets his act together.

Luka Kyrie Hardy/ Green Zach Wood and anyone else worth filling in that we do not trade for the 2nd round pick we need to use to draft Zach. We can then look at undrafted guys as well and maybe we find another keeper like AJ Lawson to develop. He hits 3's at a decent enough rate to keep as a 2 way and develop.

If we have any room to add someone else in free agency after we retain Irving and possibly Wood then I say we need to see what our 2 stars can do to recruit us some veteran help.

TRADE ASSETS: THJ, Holiday, Bullock, Bertan's expiring contract, Powell SNT, Kleber, Pinson, Wright, AJ Lawson, Frank, McGee

A look at the free agent market is pretty sad this season so focusing on resigning our free agents is probably the route to take and after we do that maybe we have room to add one guy with better than a vet min. If you can count on Zach to come on and start to play this next season as a back up to McGee then we have an understudy to develop into a starter that can produce day one. I would look to add a veteran as well if possible. Trades would be the best way to do that.

Poeltl may want out of Toronto and prefer to get back in Texas. He would be a nice center to add as a veteran and we could resign Powell in a S&T plus throw in anything from the list of guys considered trade bait. Zach would theoretically take at least 1 year to develop a feel for the pro game and Poeltl is the youngest center in free agency that is able to contribute now. If you can take him away from TOR you add one of 2 centers that we need and Zach gets to come along slower so that he can be properly developed but with his size he should start to contribute right away.

When Zach starts to show he can start we can use Poeltl as a back up or trade him for another player. McGee is old but I think he is useful as a back up still. Trading for another center may not be needed if Kidd would just use who we have now.

[Mr B]

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Dray and Labron coming to Dallas to play with Luka and Kyrie?

[Maverick41]

Dray and Labron coming to Dallas to play with Luka and Kyrie?

Oh man that would be a media circus

[BliscoSantos]

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Dray and Labron coming to Dallas to play with Luka and Kyrie?

If he says so then it's definetly not happening...he's wrong almost everytime

[Jg41]

Fun hypothetical:

If the Mavs finish 21st (Behind OKC and Chicago) and somehow win the lottery (~4.5%), would you trade Wemby?

I'd be real tempted by the following draft day swap:

DAL ===> Wemby / THJ / Bertans / Bullock / McGee ===> BKN
BKN ===> DAL '29 1st / DAL '27 2nd / DAL '29 2nd / Bridges / DFS / Claxton / Mills / Sharpe ===> DAL

PG: L. Doncic (35) / P. Mills
SG: K. Irving (35) / J. Hardy (25) / T. Pinson
SF: M. Bridges (35) / J. Green (25) / J. Holiday
PF: D. Finney-Smith (30) / M. Kleber (25)
C: N. Claxton (30) / D. Powell / D. Sharpe

1) You completely replenish your draft capital post 2024;
2) You rid yourself of every bloated contract currently on your books;
3) You assemble a young core of Luka / Bridges / Claxton / Green / Hardy moving forward; and
4) You reset your repeater tax clock by opening up enough room to resign kyrie to 40M+ and still avoid the luxury tax.

Extend Green and Claxton and bring back Powell, Pinson, and Holiday on minimum deals.

[Mr B]

Fun hypothetical:

If the Mavs finish 21st (Behind OKC and Chicago) and somehow win the lottery (~4.5%), would you trade Wemby?

I'd be real tempted by the following draft day swap:

DAL ===> Wemby / THJ / Bertans / Bullock / McGee ===> BKN
BKN ===> DAL '29 1st / DAL '27 2nd / DAL '29 2nd / Bridges / DFS / Claxton / Mills / Sharpe ===> DAL

PG: L. Doncic (35) / P. Mills
SG: K. Irving (35) / J. Hardy (25) / T. Pinson
SF: M. Bridges (35) / J. Green (25) / J. Holiday
PF: D. Finney-Smith (30) / M. Kleber (25)
C: N. Claxton (30) / D. Powell / D. Sharpe

1) You completely replenish your draft capital post 2024;
2) You rid yourself of every bloated contract currently on your books;
3) You assemble a young core of Luka / Bridges / Claxton / Green / Hardy moving forward; and
4) You reset your repeater tax clock by opening up enough room to resign kyrie to 40M+ and still avoid the luxury tax.

Extend Green and Claxton and bring back Powell, Pinson, and Holiday on minimum deals.

No, they would add Labron and Draymond to Wemby/Luka/Kyrie.

[BliscoSantos]

Fun hypothetical:

If the Mavs finish 21st (Behind OKC and Chicago) and somehow win the lottery (~4.5%), would you trade Wemby?

I'd be real tempted by the following draft day swap:

DAL ===> Wemby / THJ / Bertans / Bullock / McGee ===> BKN
BKN ===> DAL '29 1st / DAL '27 2nd / DAL '29 2nd / Bridges / DFS / Claxton / Mills / Sharpe ===> DAL

PG: L. Doncic (35) / P. Mills
SG: K. Irving (35) / J. Hardy (25) / T. Pinson
SF: M. Bridges (35) / J. Green (25) / J. Holiday
PF: D. Finney-Smith (30) / M. Kleber (25)
C: N. Claxton (30) / D. Powell / D. Sharpe

1) You completely replenish your draft capital post 2024;
2) You rid yourself of every bloated contract currently on your books;
3) You assemble a young core of Luka / Bridges / Claxton / Green / Hardy moving forward; and
4) You reset your repeater tax clock by opening up enough room to resign kyrie to 40M+ and still avoid the luxury tax.

Extend Green and Claxton and bring back Powell, Pinson, and Holiday on minimum deals.

No, they would add Labron and Draymond to Wemby/Luka/Kyrie.

If the Mavs got Lucky and add Wemby I really doubt they'd trade him...either they'd resign Kyrie , see how it works, or let Kyrie walk,clear capspace and rebuild around Luka and Wemby...Luka and Wemby would have a Long Window to contend

[Jg41]

I'm not so sure. Wemby seems like a perennial injury risk. If it doesn't work with Luka, one or both could demand to leave and that would be generationally damaging. I'd rather use him to clean up our payroll, replenish our draft ammo, and surround Luka and Kyrie with young, retainable, defensive stalwarts. This pipe-dream helps make these clutch-time Ls sting a bit less.

[SOUNDCHASER]

If you get wemby you need to also snag a bruiser type at center because wem is not going to be a center that can bang and when you have that kind of player you need the bruiser to be his body guard on the court.

[SOUNDCHASER]

https://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=zach-edey--kyle-filipowski--dereck-lively-ii--drew-timme--victor-wembanyama

[Mavrelous]

A top 10 pick is a coveted asset, Mavs can trade it for Knicks pick (#21) and Mavs future pick and free their pick.
They can trade it for Myles Turner and close the hole in center.
it'll help to rebuild, they are screwed right now, no assets and 2 major holes at center and big wing.

<Center>/McGee
<Big wing>/Maxi
Luka/THJ
Green/Hardy
Kyrie/<min player>

For center I'd target Turner or Capella (should be cheaper), for big wing I'd target OG.