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Could Caitlin Clark Play in the NBA?

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Re: Could Caitlin Clark Play in the NBA? 

Post#61 » by ImSlower » Tue Mar 28, 2023 12:57 am

I don't care about the eternal "could she play against the boys" discussion since it's a non-starter in my books. But regarding Clark herself - I am absolutely astounded by her court awareness. She's an absolute delight and I regret not paying more attention to my alma mater's womens team earlier.
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Re: Could Caitlin Clark Play in the NBA? 

Post#62 » by dice » Tue Mar 28, 2023 1:25 am

fleet wrote:There are no physical matchups in any sport where there is direct physical competition that a woman can even make a men's professional team. Conceivably golf, bowling or billiards since there is no direct physical matchup. And Annika couldn't do it. Why this gets pushed every time a woman becomes domiant at beating other women is always interesting study.

men have better spatial awareness/depth perception on average as well. maybe hand-eye coordination and muscle control too. which is probably why women don't even compete against men in billiards

i've heard (and i don't know if this is true) that the reason men are significantly better at golf is more due to putting ability than driving distance. and putting is pretty much the ability to read greens and fine muscle control

one thing that occurred to me while watching caitlin clark highlights the other day was that women don't shoot "jump shots" in the same sense that men do. men elevate, then shoot. women elevate AS they shoot. meaning that caitlin clark releases the ball much closer to the ground than most nba players. even if the larger ball was not an issue (which it would be), she'd have trouble creating enough space to get shots off. nevermind the defensive issues
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Re: Could Caitlin Clark Play in the NBA? 

Post#63 » by TheSuzerain » Tue Mar 28, 2023 1:42 am

FecesOfDeath wrote:The only way to find out is to put her in The Scallenge.

Can't believe the Sky traded their chance at the GOAT women's prospect for some mediocre vet guard. Yuck.


The GOAT prospect is a healthy Paige Bueckers. However, she may never be the same after two major injuries.

Clark is better than Bueckers. Even the heathy version.

Although she was extremely good as well. That wasn't a hype job situation.
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Re: Could Caitlin Clark Play in the NBA? 

Post#64 » by TheSuzerain » Tue Mar 28, 2023 1:43 am

dice wrote:
fleet wrote:There are no physical matchups in any sport where there is direct physical competition that a woman can even make a men's professional team. Conceivably golf, bowling or billiards since there is no direct physical matchup. And Annika couldn't do it. Why this gets pushed every time a woman becomes domiant at beating other women is always interesting study.

men have better spatial awareness/depth perception on average as well. maybe hand-eye coordination and muscle control too. which is probably why women don't even compete against men in billiards

i've heard (and i don't know if this is true) that the reason men are significantly better at golf is more due to putting ability than driving distance. and putting is pretty much the ability to read greens and fine muscle control

one thing that occurred to me while watching caitlin clark highlights the other day was that women don't shoot "jump shots" in the same sense that men do. men elevate, then shoot. women elevate AS they shoot. meaning that caitlin clark releases the ball much closer to the ground than most nba players. even if the larger ball was not an issue (which it would be), she'd have trouble creating enough space to get shots off. nevermind the defensive issues

Men shoot like that too nowadays. The Ray Allen/Ben Gordon approach isn't really typical form anymore.

Clark basically ripped off Trae/Curry form.
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Re: Could Caitlin Clark Play in the NBA? 

Post#65 » by dice » Tue Mar 28, 2023 1:47 am

TheSuzerain wrote:
dice wrote:
fleet wrote:There are no physical matchups in any sport where there is direct physical competition that a woman can even make a men's professional team. Conceivably golf, bowling or billiards since there is no direct physical matchup. And Annika couldn't do it. Why this gets pushed every time a woman becomes domiant at beating other women is always interesting study.

men have better spatial awareness/depth perception on average as well. maybe hand-eye coordination and muscle control too. which is probably why women don't even compete against men in billiards

i've heard (and i don't know if this is true) that the reason men are significantly better at golf is more due to putting ability than driving distance. and putting is pretty much the ability to read greens and fine muscle control

one thing that occurred to me while watching caitlin clark highlights the other day was that women don't shoot "jump shots" in the same sense that men do. men elevate, then shoot. women elevate AS they shoot. meaning that caitlin clark releases the ball much closer to the ground than most nba players. even if the larger ball was not an issue (which it would be), she'd have trouble creating enough space to get shots off. nevermind the defensive issues

Men shoot like that too nowadays. The Ray Allen/Ben Gordon approach isn't really typical form anymore.

Clark basically ripped off Trae/Curry form.

true. when you're shooting that far out...and releasing quickly off the dribble...
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Re: Could Caitlin Clark Play in the NBA? 

Post#66 » by Ice Man » Tue Mar 28, 2023 4:48 pm

ImSlower wrote:I don't care about the eternal "could she play against the boys" discussion since it's a non-starter in my books. But regarding Clark herself - I am absolutely astounded by her court awareness. She's an absolute delight and I regret not paying more attention to my alma mater's womens team earlier.


+1000

Do I care if Martina, Steffi, or Serena would get skunked by the #200 male tennis player? Not a whit. Caitlin is a marvelous player, end of story.
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Re: Could Caitlin Clark Play in the NBA? 

Post#67 » by jc23 » Tue Mar 28, 2023 5:13 pm

only 5 NBA players id pay to watch over her. Luka, Steph, Zion, Ja and maybe giannis. CC is blockbuster.
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Re: Could Caitlin Clark Play in the NBA? 

Post#68 » by dougthonus » Tue Mar 28, 2023 9:08 pm

jc23 wrote:only 5 NBA players id pay to watch over her. Luka, Steph, Zion, Ja and maybe giannis. CC is blockbuster.


She's fabulous, but I can't imagine I'm going to tune in to many WNBA games or Women's NCAA games just to watch her. I did for one this tournament game this year and watched a couple other Women's tournament games just because they were on, but the overall level of play is still ridiculously low relative to the men's game.

Not sure why it bothers me in basketball, I enjoy watching women's tennis more than men's tennis generally speaking (not that I watch a whole lot of either anymore) and the same statement is true, but in basketball it's more of a blocker for me.
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Re: Could Caitlin Clark Play in the NBA? 

Post#69 » by League Circles » Tue Mar 28, 2023 9:19 pm

dice wrote:
TheSuzerain wrote:
dice wrote:men have better spatial awareness/depth perception on average as well. maybe hand-eye coordination and muscle control too. which is probably why women don't even compete against men in billiards

i've heard (and i don't know if this is true) that the reason men are significantly better at golf is more due to putting ability than driving distance. and putting is pretty much the ability to read greens and fine muscle control

one thing that occurred to me while watching caitlin clark highlights the other day was that women don't shoot "jump shots" in the same sense that men do. men elevate, then shoot. women elevate AS they shoot. meaning that caitlin clark releases the ball much closer to the ground than most nba players. even if the larger ball was not an issue (which it would be), she'd have trouble creating enough space to get shots off. nevermind the defensive issues

Men shoot like that too nowadays. The Ray Allen/Ben Gordon approach isn't really typical form anymore.

Clark basically ripped off Trae/Curry form.

true. when you're shooting that far out...and releasing quickly off the dribble...

And when you're one of the weakest guys in the league
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Re: Could Caitlin Clark Play in the NBA? 

Post#70 » by League Circles » Tue Mar 28, 2023 9:21 pm

dougthonus wrote:
jc23 wrote:only 5 NBA players id pay to watch over her. Luka, Steph, Zion, Ja and maybe giannis. CC is blockbuster.


She's fabulous, but I can't imagine I'm going to tune in to many WNBA games or Women's NCAA games just to watch her. I did for one this tournament game this year and watched a couple other Women's tournament games just because they were on, but the overall level of play is still ridiculously low relative to the men's game.

Not sure why it bothers me in basketball, I enjoy watching women's tennis more than men's tennis generally speaking (not that I watch a whole lot of either anymore) and the same statement is true, but in basketball it's more of a blocker for me.

Women's tennis is outright better to watch than men's because they don't ace their serves as often. More volleying. More exciting. I watched women's golf for the first time in sunday and was similarly impressed for similar reasons.
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Re: Could Caitlin Clark Play in the NBA? 

Post#71 » by dougthonus » Tue Mar 28, 2023 9:49 pm

League Circles wrote:Women's tennis is outright better to watch than men's because they don't ace their serves as often. More volleying. More exciting. I watched women's golf for the first time in sunday and was similarly impressed for similar reasons.


Yeah, I think you're right that a big plus in women's tennis is the much smaller advantage the server has vs the returner.

As a side note, I was a starting varsity tennis player back in the day, and in my off-season lessons, my coach was a former US Davis cup player (ironic that a guy that was a low run pro player's best gig was now teaching at the Elmhurst park district tennis club, but that's another story), anyway, he had a segment he would run regularly where he'd serve everyone and we had to do some running drill each time someone failed to make a legal return (didn't have to be good just had to be in play), and I think the return rate of myself and similar caliber varsity players on this guy who probably peaked at 200 in the world or so was probably about 25%. If we actually had to make a return that wouldn't yield an automatic point ending smash, I'd say it would have dropped down to 2-3%.
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Re: Could Caitlin Clark Play in the NBA? 

Post#72 » by Andi Obst » Wed Mar 29, 2023 6:42 am

dougthonus wrote:She's fabulous, but I can't imagine I'm going to tune in to many WNBA games or Women's NCAA games just to watch her. I did for one this tournament game this year and watched a couple other Women's tournament games just because they were on, but the overall level of play is still ridiculously low relative to the men's game.


College basketball is unwatchable for me in general, men or women. The games too often feel like an unorganized mess to me, like I'm watching the Houston Rockets but 10 times worse. I just can't get into it.

I do think the WNBA is trending in the right direction, though. The league is getting significantly better every year now. Not only because the players are getting better, which they do at a very fast rate, but also because more teams have started to seriously invest in building an infrastruture that allows the players to maximize their talents. I'm excited for the future of the W.

I'd be even more excited if the Sky had a chance at landing Clark. She's amazing.
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Re: Could Caitlin Clark Play in the NBA? 

Post#73 » by dougthonus » Wed Mar 29, 2023 10:59 am

Little Nathan wrote:
dougthonus wrote:She's fabulous, but I can't imagine I'm going to tune in to many WNBA games or Women's NCAA games just to watch her. I did for one this tournament game this year and watched a couple other Women's tournament games just because they were on, but the overall level of play is still ridiculously low relative to the men's game.


College basketball is unwatchable for me in general, men or women. The games too often feel like an unorganized mess to me, like I'm watching the Houston Rockets but 10 times worse. I just can't get into it.

I do think the WNBA is trending in the right direction, though. The league is getting significantly better every year now. Not only because the players are getting better, which they do at a very fast rate, but also because more teams have started to seriously invest in building an infrastruture that allows the players to maximize their talents. I'm excited for the future of the W.

I'd be even more excited if the Sky had a chance at landing Clark. She's amazing.


I think what it would take for the WNBA or Women's tournament for me is for it to become a topical enough conversation that others are interested in it. A huge value in sports is how much social value there is in discussing it with others. I am intrigued enough to try to watch Caitlin Clark in her final 4 game though just to see if she can single handedly pull off the miracle.
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Re: Could Caitlin Clark Play in the NBA? 

Post#74 » by Ice Man » Wed Mar 29, 2023 1:56 pm

dougthonus wrote:I think what it would take for the WNBA or Women's tournament for me is for it to become a topical enough conversation that others are interested in it. A huge value in sports is how much social value there is in discussing it with others.


Somehow women's tennis achieved that, while other women's sports have not. (Aside from the occasional Olympic athlete, that is.) Not sure why. Billy Jean King's efforts? Martina & Chris? We can't say Serena, because women's tennis was already mainstream by the time the WIlliams sisters arrived.
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Re: Could Caitlin Clark Play in the NBA? 

Post#75 » by dougthonus » Wed Mar 29, 2023 2:47 pm

Ice Man wrote:
dougthonus wrote:I think what it would take for the WNBA or Women's tournament for me is for it to become a topical enough conversation that others are interested in it. A huge value in sports is how much social value there is in discussing it with others.


Somehow women's tennis achieved that, while other women's sports have not. (Aside from the occasional Olympic athlete, that is.) Not sure why. Billy Jean King's efforts? Martina & Chris? We can't say Serena, because women's tennis was already mainstream by the time the WIlliams sisters arrived.


Williams sisters definitely ramped it up a notch big time, but I think it's a bit of what League Circles said. Women's tennis is more balanced between server/receiver and the points are often more interesting. The Olympics are a whole different thing, in the Olympics, you like everything regardless, because you're rooting for the country and you're only watching a tiny tidbit of a sport you never see anyway and know little about, so you don't really care about the gaps between ability levels at all because you aren't really caring that much about the sport just the win for the flag.
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Re: Could Caitlin Clark Play in the NBA? 

Post#76 » by fleet » Wed Mar 29, 2023 2:58 pm

I suspect women’s tennis owes more of it’s popularity to dominant players and sex appeal more than the type of game itself. Men’s tennis is just a mishmash of players without dominance by just a few colorful rivals, therefore little Sports-center drama. Djokovic obviously, but he’s bland from a small country. His biggest publicity came from his bans from tournaments. Lack of American or western rivalries at the top to make drama happen is needed to drive popularity. The types of game is likely a minor factor.
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Re: Could Caitlin Clark Play in the NBA? 

Post#77 » by DropStep » Wed Mar 29, 2023 3:11 pm

Ice Man wrote:
dougthonus wrote:I think what it would take for the WNBA or Women's tournament for me is for it to become a topical enough conversation that others are interested in it. A huge value in sports is how much social value there is in discussing it with others.


Somehow women's tennis achieved that, while other women's sports have not. (Aside from the occasional Olympic athlete, that is.) Not sure why. Billy Jean King's efforts? Martina & Chris? We can't say Serena, because women's tennis was already mainstream by the time the WIlliams sisters arrived.


I think Billy Jean/Bobby Riggs put it in the public conversation. Getting off the sports pages helps a lot, I think. Tracy Austin even had some crossover appeal when I was a kid. Chris Evert, of course - people were not only interested in whether she could stand up to Martina, but also who she was dating. She had a celebrity aura somehow. Get asked onto Entertainment Tonight or whatever, and the sky is the limit.

Brittney Griner got off the sports pages too, and pub is pub, but negative, scary stories don't seem to work quite the same.
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Re: Could Caitlin Clark Play in the NBA? 

Post#78 » by Ice Man » Wed Mar 29, 2023 4:00 pm

DropStep wrote:I think Billy Jean/Bobby Riggs put it in the public conversation. Getting off the sports pages helps a lot, I think.


This strikes me as hitting closer to the truth than the other explanations. Somehow (exactly how becomes murky, but BJK vs. Bobby Riggs certainly was a big help), female tennis players became branded stars, in a way that other female professional athletes did not. They became so well known that everyday households would recognize their names, and perhaps even their faces if they appeared on television commercials.

And then the cycle becomes virtuous, because people come to watch celebrities for no other reason that they are celebrities. (Case in point: Kardashians.) Women's tennis players were stars, and stars attract crowds, so women's tennis attracted crowds. And because they attracted crowds, what they did off the court mattered, and they received intense media coverage because of their fame, which made them even bigger stars. And so forth.
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Re: Could Caitlin Clark Play in the NBA? 

Post#79 » by dice » Wed Mar 29, 2023 11:33 pm

TheSuzerain wrote:
FecesOfDeath wrote:The only way to find out is to put her in The Scallenge.

Can't believe the Sky traded their chance at the GOAT women's prospect for some mediocre vet guard. Yuck.


The GOAT prospect is a healthy Paige Bueckers. However, she may never be the same after two major injuries.

Clark is better than Bueckers. Even the heathy version.

Although she was extremely good as well. That wasn't a hype job situation.

buckers is supposedly a much better defender. and clark's usage is much higher, thus accounting for her substantially higher scoring average. is that because her team is less balanced?
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Re: Could Caitlin Clark Play in the NBA? 

Post#80 » by kyrv » Thu Mar 30, 2023 12:32 am

dougthonus wrote:
jc23 wrote:only 5 NBA players id pay to watch over her. Luka, Steph, Zion, Ja and maybe giannis. CC is blockbuster.


She's fabulous, but I can't imagine I'm going to tune in to many WNBA games or Women's NCAA games just to watch her. I did for one this tournament game this year and watched a couple other Women's tournament games just because they were on, but the overall level of play is still ridiculously low relative to the men's game.

Not sure why it bothers me in basketball, I enjoy watching women's tennis more than men's tennis generally speaking (not that I watch a whole lot of either anymore) and the same statement is true, but in basketball it's more of a blocker for me.


Same here, not sure why, but hey our feelings are our feelings. I love women's tennis and soccer, don't mind golf, but basketball, ugh.

I have a theory, that unlike the other sports I mentioned, for basketball I'm watching (well, tried to watch) players who, I just think, most guys here would imo likely pretty much dominate against the women so it's weird watching people worse than we are (or were or will be). Just a theory.



Not sure if it's intentional, but when people bring up this topic it just highlights how much worse they are than the men, not really fair to her or any other player.

So, I mean, could she play *on merit*, no. But in theory someone can give her a contract and suit her up.
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