3/28 - Heat @ Raptors - 7:30pm

[3ballbomber]

Herro 33-6-3. Close to 70% frm the field. 60% frm the arc. Too bad nobody else turned up.

[IceColdCubano]

Herro 33-6-3. Close to 70% frm the field. 60% frm the arc. Too bad nobody else turned up.

Its funny because whenever he has these great games, the team usually always plays completely terrible all around and the game ends in a loss. Its almost like the correlation here is that, if the opposing team decides to let Herro go for it, score at will but lock out everyone else. Instead when Herro becomes the focal point and gets hunted and locked up the rest of the team scores at will. Some teams have figured it out I guess, Let Herro do his thing on offense, because they don't amount to anything positive since he will give up equal opportunity or more on defense. Lock up the rest of the team and prevent them from having a positive offensive flow.

[eddieheatfan]

Herro 33-6-3. Close to 70% frm the field. 60% frm the arc. Too bad nobody else turned up.

Its funny because whenever he has these great games, the team usually always plays completely terrible all around and the game ends in a loss. Its almost like the correlation here is that, if the opposing team decides to let Herro go for it, score at will but lock out everyone else. Instead when Herro becomes the focal point and gets hunted and locked up the rest of the team scores at will. Some teams have figured it out I guess, Let Herro do his thing on offense, because they don't amount to anything positive since he will give up equal opportunity or more on defense. Lock up the rest of the team and prevent them from having a positive offensive flow.

fire spo, is all that matters at this point. FO should take a long vacation with their families after this debacle of a season.

[dagger151]

Herro 33-6-3. Close to 70% frm the field. 60% frm the arc. Too bad nobody else turned up.

Its funny because whenever he has these great games, the team usually always plays completely terrible all around and the game ends in a loss. Its almost like the correlation here is that, if the opposing team decides to let Herro go for it, score at will but lock out everyone else. Instead when Herro becomes the focal point and gets hunted and locked up the rest of the team scores at will. Some teams have figured it out I guess, Let Herro do his thing on offense, because they don't amount to anything positive since he will give up equal opportunity or more on defense. Lock up the rest of the team and prevent them from having a positive offensive flow.

Sadly I agree. Herro gives up too much on defense which negates his offensive output. This team cant shoot or rebound. The amount of second, third and fourth chance points was disgusting last night. Cant expect much change from this team until 2025 when Lowry comes off the books and Duncan is close to expiring. At this point, im in favor of missing the playoffs and hoping to get a good pick so we can groom a young player and rebuild. This team is really hard to watch brick shots all night...but I still do!

[ShulaDon92]

Luckily this is sports and anything can happen so you never know but this team is going to war to die.

[contract]

No thread???

Heat fans are slacking as much as the team and the organization are.

[ShulaDon92]

I already made a Heat/Knicks thread and we lost. Not doing another one.

[ShulaDon92]

Herro 33-6-3. Close to 70% frm the field. 60% frm the arc. Too bad nobody else turned up.

Excellent numbers. If we only had a frontcourt that could compete with that meat.

[AirP.]

Herro 33-6-3. Close to 70% frm the field. 60% frm the arc. Too bad nobody else turned up.

Its funny because whenever he has these great games, the team usually always plays completely terrible all around and the game ends in a loss. Its almost like the correlation here is that, if the opposing team decides to let Herro go for it, score at will but lock out everyone else. Instead, when Herro becomes the focal point and gets hunted and locked up the rest of the team scores at will. Some teams have figured it out I guess, Let Herro do his thing on offense, because they don't amount to anything positive since he will give up equal opportunity or more on defense. Lock up the rest of the team and prevent them from having a positive offensive flow.

I just went back to watch Herro's shots because I had to watch a live stream vs being able to reverse and see things like I can with league pass, it seemed to me that Toronto was fine letting Herro score and watching his FGAs confirmed that, but credit Herro, he did hit his shots.

Toronto let Herro have single coverage all night long and the guys he shot against weren't the good wings (at least not when he took his shots). Herro took a lot of shots vs Toronto's bigs in the 1st half (yes, I remember Barnes on him and taking the ball away from him) and in the 2nd half most of his shots were over and around FVV.

If you look around, Strus played nearly 26 minutes as the 3pt shooter and he got 3 FGA, Bam routinely saw 2nd defenders running his way, Herro, not so much. Bam and Herro took 1 less than half the team's FGA.

I think teams are good with Herro shooting against single coverage (and he'll have some good games when that happens) and doing that allows them to cover everyone else off ball better with less scrambling. Also, having a high-volume guy like Herro shooting can take everyone else out of the rhythm of shooting which can also make them drop their effort level. These are the reasons you run an offense through a PG, so he makes sure to keep everyone engaged, Herro doesn't do that, he hunts for his shot unless it's a called play for a quick dump off to Bam or drive and kick.

Here's a link to the video's of Herro's shot attempts last night from NBA.com.

[ShulaDon92]

Herro 33-6-3. Close to 70% frm the field. 60% frm the arc. Too bad nobody else turned up.

Its funny because whenever he has these great games, the team usually always plays completely terrible all around and the game ends in a loss. Its almost like the correlation here is that, if the opposing team decides to let Herro go for it, score at will but lock out everyone else. Instead, when Herro becomes the focal point and gets hunted and locked up the rest of the team scores at will. Some teams have figured it out I guess, Let Herro do his thing on offense, because they don't amount to anything positive since he will give up equal opportunity or more on defense. Lock up the rest of the team and prevent them from having a positive offensive flow.

I just went back to watch Herro's shots because I had to watch a live stream vs being able to reverse and see things like I can with league pass, it seemed to me that Toronto was fine letting Herro score and watching his FGAs confirmed that, but credit Herro, he did hit his shots.

Toronto let Herro have single coverage all night long and the guys he shot against weren't the good wings (at least not when he took his shots). Herro took a lot of shots vs Toronto's bigs in the 1st half (yes, I remember Barnes on him and taking the ball away from him) and in the 2nd half most of his shots were over and around FVV.

If you look around, Strus played nearly 26 minutes as the 3pt shooter and he got 3 FGA, Bam routinely saw 2nd defenders running his way, Herro, not so much. Bam and Herro took 1 less than half the team's FGA.

I think teams are good with Herro shooting against single coverage (and he'll have some good games when that happens) and doing that allows them to cover everyone else off ball better with less scrambling. Also, having a high-volume guy like Herro shooting can take everyone else out of the rhythm of shooting which can also make them drop their effort level. These are the reasons you run an offense through a PG, so he makes sure to keep everyone engaged, Herro doesn't do that, he hunts for his shot unless it's a called play for a quick dump off to Bam or drive and kick.

Here's a link to the video's of Herro's shot attempts last night from NBA.com.

Sure but Jimmy didn't play. That changes the dynamic.

[AirP.]

Its funny because whenever he has these great games, the team usually always plays completely terrible all around and the game ends in a loss. Its almost like the correlation here is that, if the opposing team decides to let Herro go for it, score at will but lock out everyone else. Instead, when Herro becomes the focal point and gets hunted and locked up the rest of the team scores at will. Some teams have figured it out I guess, Let Herro do his thing on offense, because they don't amount to anything positive since he will give up equal opportunity or more on defense. Lock up the rest of the team and prevent them from having a positive offensive flow.

I just went back to watch Herro's shots because I had to watch a live stream vs being able to reverse and see things like I can with league pass, it seemed to me that Toronto was fine letting Herro score and watching his FGAs confirmed that, but credit Herro, he did hit his shots.

Toronto let Herro have single coverage all night long and the guys he shot against weren't the good wings (at least not when he took his shots). Herro took a lot of shots vs Toronto's bigs in the 1st half (yes, I remember Barnes on him and taking the ball away from him) and in the 2nd half most of his shots were over and around FVV.

If you look around, Strus played nearly 26 minutes as the 3pt shooter and he got 3 FGA, Bam routinely saw 2nd defenders running his way, Herro, not so much. Bam and Herro took 1 less than half the team's FGA.

I think teams are good with Herro shooting against single coverage (and he'll have some good games when that happens) and doing that allows them to cover everyone else off ball better with less scrambling. Also, having a high-volume guy like Herro shooting can take everyone else out of the rhythm of shooting which can also make them drop their effort level. These are the reasons you run an offense through a PG, so he makes sure to keep everyone engaged, Herro doesn't do that, he hunts for his shot unless it's a called play for a quick dump off to Bam or drive and kick.

Here's a link to the video's of Herro's shot attempts last night from NBA.com.

Sure but Jimmy didn't play. That changes the dynamic.

So, when Butler plays everyone else gets more shots or does someone have tunnel vision and teams know this and are good with this (not bringing double teams to get him to pass the ball)?

Herro has tunnel vision, he gets most of his assists on called plays, the pick and roll with Bam where he takes one dribble and bounce passes it to Bam for a 10 foot jumper or the drive and kick out to the far corner or his 3rd play of going behind the basket looking to pass to one of the 3pt shooters waiting at the arc, other than that he's basically not looking at anyone but the bucket which is why he hands off the basketball with only a few seconds on the shot clock to let someone else put up a bad shot. This is why in the playoffs he's usually not successful because the teams are prepared for him, plus playoff teams usually have better defenders which can just cause Herro big issues.

What Herro could be is a very good SG who doesn't handle the ball much, can hit shots off balance and he doesn't back down because of pressure but for some reason enough people in the organization think he could be better than Booker yet he's nowhere near Booker.

[ShulaDon92]

I just went back to watch Herro's shots because I had to watch a live stream vs being able to reverse and see things like I can with league pass, it seemed to me that Toronto was fine letting Herro score and watching his FGAs confirmed that, but credit Herro, he did hit his shots.

Toronto let Herro have single coverage all night long and the guys he shot against weren't the good wings (at least not when he took his shots). Herro took a lot of shots vs Toronto's bigs in the 1st half (yes, I remember Barnes on him and taking the ball away from him) and in the 2nd half most of his shots were over and around FVV.

If you look around, Strus played nearly 26 minutes as the 3pt shooter and he got 3 FGA, Bam routinely saw 2nd defenders running his way, Herro, not so much. Bam and Herro took 1 less than half the team's FGA.

I think teams are good with Herro shooting against single coverage (and he'll have some good games when that happens) and doing that allows them to cover everyone else off ball better with less scrambling. Also, having a high-volume guy like Herro shooting can take everyone else out of the rhythm of shooting which can also make them drop their effort level. These are the reasons you run an offense through a PG, so he makes sure to keep everyone engaged, Herro doesn't do that, he hunts for his shot unless it's a called play for a quick dump off to Bam or drive and kick.

Here's a link to the video's of Herro's shot attempts last night from NBA.com.

Sure but Jimmy didn't play. That changes the dynamic.

So, when Butler plays everyone else gets more shots or does someone have tunnel vision and teams know this and are good with this (not bringing double teams to get him to pass the ball)?

Herro has tunnel vision, he gets most of his assists on called plays, the pick and roll with Bam where he takes one dribble and bounce passes it to Bam for a 10 foot jumper or the drive and kick out to the far corner or his 3rd play of going behind the basket looking to pass to one of the 3pt shooters waiting at the arc, other than that he's basically not looking at anyone but the bucket which is why he hands off the basketball with only a few seconds on the shot clock to let someone else put up a bad shot. This is why in the playoffs he's usually not successful because the teams are prepared for him, plus playoff teams usually have better defenders which can just cause Herro big issues.

What Herro could be is a very good SG who doesn't handle the ball much, can hit shots off balance and he doesn't back down because of pressure but for some reason enough people in the organization think he could be better than Booker yet he's nowhere near Booker.

I agree with your opinion and we also seem to be trying to make Herro into more of a physical player instead of using him like a Curry or Ray Allen. Herro's fine when his shot is on but his dry spells are killers.

[AirP.]

Sure but Jimmy didn't play. That changes the dynamic.

So, when Butler plays everyone else gets more shots or does someone have tunnel vision and teams know this and are good with this (not bringing double teams to get him to pass the ball)?

Herro has tunnel vision, he gets most of his assists on called plays, the pick and roll with Bam where he takes one dribble and bounce passes it to Bam for a 10 foot jumper or the drive and kick out to the far corner or his 3rd play of going behind the basket looking to pass to one of the 3pt shooters waiting at the arc, other than that he's basically not looking at anyone but the bucket which is why he hands off the basketball with only a few seconds on the shot clock to let someone else put up a bad shot. This is why in the playoffs he's usually not successful because the teams are prepared for him, plus playoff teams usually have better defenders which can just cause Herro big issues.

What Herro could be is a very good SG who doesn't handle the ball much, can hit shots off balance and he doesn't back down because of pressure but for some reason enough people in the organization think he could be better than Booker yet he's nowhere near Booker.

I agree with your opinion and we also seem to be trying to make Herro into more of a physical player instead of using him like a Curry or Ray Allen. Herro's fine when his shot is on but his dry spells are killers.

Right, which is why the ball shouldn't be in his hands, a PG or playmaker should have the ball and giving him the shots when they think he should get them, not let him pick (all the time) when he can get a shot off.

[Hallstar]

So, when Butler plays everyone else gets more shots or does someone have tunnel vision and teams know this and are good with this (not bringing double teams to get him to pass the ball)?

Herro has tunnel vision, he gets most of his assists on called plays, the pick and roll with Bam where he takes one dribble and bounce passes it to Bam for a 10 foot jumper or the drive and kick out to the far corner or his 3rd play of going behind the basket looking to pass to one of the 3pt shooters waiting at the arc, other than that he's basically not looking at anyone but the bucket which is why he hands off the basketball with only a few seconds on the shot clock to let someone else put up a bad shot. This is why in the playoffs he's usually not successful because the teams are prepared for him, plus playoff teams usually have better defenders which can just cause Herro big issues.

What Herro could be is a very good SG who doesn't handle the ball much, can hit shots off balance and he doesn't back down because of pressure but for some reason enough people in the organization think he could be better than Booker yet he's nowhere near Booker.

I agree with your opinion and we also seem to be trying to make Herro into more of a physical player instead of using him like a Curry or Ray Allen. Herro's fine when his shot is on but his dry spells are killers.

Right, which is why the ball shouldn't be in his hands, a PG or playmaker should have the ball and giving him the shots when they think he should get them, not let him pick (all the time) when he can get a shot off.

You guys don't know the difference between shooters and shot makers. If you reduce Herro to a bum like Robinson or Strus you don't even make the playin

[oreon]

The Herro hate is real. He has a good game they loose, it his fault. What do you want ? Him to 3 - 15
We know he is a below average defender, hence why we have team defense. The raps are just long and athletic which is this team's kryptonite. With Butler out, that's one less wing and that can guard and the team has a whole got burned. Even Bam didn't have a good defensive game.
On offense, he played like usual. Took more shots with Butler out but he was efficient. And half of his shots were from 3, which is good. Thats better than midrange 2s. Raps did play him single coverage but most teams do. Butler is the only one on this team who commands double consistently. Sometimes Bam and Herro do when they are rolling. For example in the 4th, they did look to trap Herro and he made 2 passes out of that to Bam for easy layups on the roll.
He had a good game, it's ok to admit that. The matchup just sucked for the Heat. The only way they were gonna win was if they outscoring the raps. And no one apart from Herro was a having a good offensive night.
For issue last night, Herro wasn't in the top 10
If you say for the season he has been uneven. I'd agree with you. It's same problem as previous season he isn't consistent. Aside from Lowry, Duncan I think he has the highest probability of getting traded. I'd be surprised if he still with the team past next season trade deadline. Knowing Riley he won't look to rebuild and will try to compete. Heat won't be able to make a meaningful trade without including him in any deal

[AirP.]

I agree with your opinion and we also seem to be trying to make Herro into more of a physical player instead of using him like a Curry or Ray Allen. Herro's fine when his shot is on but his dry spells are killers.

Right, which is why the ball shouldn't be in his hands, a PG or playmaker should have the ball and giving him the shots when they think he should get them, not let him pick (all the time) when he can get a shot off.

You guys don't know the difference between shooters and shot makers. If you reduce Herro to a bum like Robinson or Strus you don't even make the playin

So, R.Allen was a bum? There's lots of really good SGs that don't dribble all that much, then again, most of them aren't huge neagitves on the defensive end.

Miss the play in because his role is limited some to make him more efficient, I'm not sure about that because when he's taking a ton of shots and he's not hitting, he's digging a hole that his teammates have to dig out of. Did you happen to know in the 17 games Herro has played and he's shot less than 17 times Miami has went 13-4 in those games? In the 45 games where Herro has shot 15 or more shots Miami has went 21-24. I just happen to think he needs to be limited which probably happens in the playoffs, I'm VERY interested in seeing Herro against good defenses in the playoffs when teams scheme against him.

When you look at Herro's advanced stats like his calculated ORTG and see that it's 109 (highest of his career) but under this year's average that is almost 115. He's not very efficient over the season, his TS% is just under .569, weird that Lowry is just behind him .567 but he just doesn't shoot at a high volume but one is seen as a great scorer by some people while the other is just horrific in their views. If you look past the PPG you can start to see why Miami has been much worse this year, not all his problem of course, Strus, Robinson and Vincent have been worse.

[fishfuego.]

I agree with your opinion and we also seem to be trying to make Herro into more of a physical player instead of using him like a Curry or Ray Allen. Herro's fine when his shot is on but his dry spells are killers.

Right, which is why the ball shouldn't be in his hands, a PG or playmaker should have the ball and giving him the shots when they think he should get them, not let him pick (all the time) when he can get a shot off.

You guys don't know the difference between shooters and shot makers. If you reduce Herro to a bum like Robinson or Strus you don't even make the playin

Herro’s defense is atrocious and he should not play the distributor role because that is simply not his game. He seems to be guessing, or forcing plays when trying to be the general, and that leads to bad passes or the ball getting stripped away from him due to his 6’6” length and high dribble, an obvious bad combination. He reminds me of Bam and his early ball handling years as a forced PG that eventually he became better at.

But his last night’s shot selections and attempts were spot on, as it was as if he took it upon himself to score when everyone else was pooping the floor.

The Heat has the likes of Strus, Vincent, Caleb, playing either out of position or roles that don’t fit them as players, add has beens such as Love, Dipo, or Strus with the one year wonder disappearing act, and to me it justifies even more a Herro take over the scoring responsibility, obviously aside from Jimmy and Bam, and even more when Bam is off and Jimmy is MIA.

[Vertical Limit]

That moment in the fourth quarter where we missed 4-5 shot attempts after 4-5 offensive rebounds.. i wanted to throw up. This team is just bad and i dont expect us to win more than 2 games of the remaining games left.

[AirP.]

The Herro hate is real. He has a good game they loose, it his fault. What do you want ? Him to 3 - 15
We know he is a below average defender, hence why we have team defense. The raps are just long and athletic which is this team's kryptonite. With Butler out, that's one less wing and that can guard and the team has a whole got burned. Even Bam didn't have a good defensive game.
On offense, he played like usual. Took more shots with Butler out but he was efficient. And half of his shots were from 3, which is good. Thats better than midrange 2s. Raps did play him single coverage but most teams do. Butler is the only one on this team who commands double consistently. Sometimes Bam and Herro do when they are rolling. For example in the 4th, they did look to trap Herro and he made 2 passes out of that to Bam for easy layups on the roll.
He had a good game, it's ok to admit that. The matchup just sucked for the Heat. The only way they were gonna win was if they outscoring the raps. And no one apart from Herro was a having a good offensive night.
For issue last night, Herro wasn't in the top 10
If you say for the season he has been uneven. I'd agree with you. It's same problem as previous season he isn't consistent. Aside from Lowry, Duncan I think he has the highest probability of getting traded. I'd be surprised if he still with the team past next season trade deadline. Knowing Riley he won't look to rebuild and will try to compete. Heat won't be able to make a meaningful trade without including him in any deal

Oh, I said earlier he hit his shots which is a credit to him, I also mentioned (earlier reply) Toronto didn't really care and basically didn't do anything to try to stop Herro by leaving FVV on him most of the game, you'd expect if they were worried about Herro they would have sent a 2nd defender from time to time like they did to Bam but they really didn't. Herro had a good shooting night, something you want to see when he's shooting as much as he was.

Still wondering why Strus only got 3 FGA in 27 minutes (but we know why). Seems like a huge waste, Miami might as well of had Highsmith playing instead of him.

[fishfuego.]

That moment in the fourth quarter where we missed 4-5 shot attempts after 4-5 offensive rebounds.. i wanted to throw up. This team is just bad and i dont expect us to win more than 2 games of the remaining games left.

Yup, that was a sickening moment and a pure reflection of why small ball sucks dingdong.
Another coach would have attempted something different, and there are plenty of different basketball sets that could have been applied.