2022-23 Season Discussion and Review - the Blockbuster trade and playoff downfall

[Saberestar]

I don't think he is. I've been on this for a while, and my feelings keep getting stronger: we are not winning with him at point - KD or no KD.
There I said it.

We can win it all with him as our starting PG and that's the plan.

He is one of the best PGs in the history of the game and even at his age he is producing and orchestrating nicely our sets.

Just remember Jason Kidd on the Mavs. He was old but he was Jason **** Kidd. He helped them to win a championship being 37/38 years old.

Jason Kidd was still a stellar defender in the Mavs title run using his 6’4 frame and strength to his advantage.

CP3 is barely 6’0 and at this point in his career he cannot defend a chair.

If CP3 is 6'0 Jason Kidd is 6'3 (both barefoot), no need to exaggerate their difference in height.

CP3 is small but even at his age he is yet a solid defender, with a crazy basketball IQ and quick hands.

People were saying that Doncic took advantage of him in the past playoffs... and what? It is Doncic and he takes advantage of anyone.

Kidd was a very good defender but in his last few years he was a negative player on offense. CP3 at the same age is much better than him on that side of the floor, not worth even comparing them as a shooters and shot creators.

[Slim Charless]

It's easy to forget Sacramento has the best offense this season. #1 in PPG, #1 is ORTG, #1 in TS%, #2 in FG% and #4 in APG. They are really good offensively. They are a bit like the Suns the previous season where we were pretty darn healthy all season and had the opportunities to really build that chemistry because of availability.

Their Achilles heel is their defense. 26th in the league in both opponent PPG and DRTG.

That's true but our defense isn't exactly lock down either. We're actually gonna need KD to play both ways and be effective at doing it.

Asking for too much from KD is gonna decrease the time before his next injury.

I know. That's my point. Our defense or lack thereof is gonna be a running issue. Now, thankfully KD can just sit back and allow Booker to do alot of the scoring while he picks his spots. He's so efficient that he'll likely get his 28-30 a game no matter what. Still, I don't like to have to use him and need him to go both ways.

[lilfishi22]

We can win it all with him as our starting PG and that's the plan.

He is one of the best PGs in the history of the game and even at his age he is producing and orchestrating nicely our sets.

Just remember Jason Kidd on the Mavs. He was old but he was Jason **** Kidd. He helped them to win a championship being 37/38 years old.

Jason Kidd was still a stellar defender in the Mavs title run using his 6’4 frame and strength to his advantage.

CP3 is barely 6’0 and at this point in his career he cannot defend a chair.

If CP3 is 6'0 Jason Kidd is 6'3 (both barefoot), no need to exaggerate their difference in height.

CP3 is small but even at his age he is yet a solid defender, with a crazy basketball IQ and quick hands.

People saying that Doncic took advantage of him in the past playoffs... and what? It is Doncic and he takes advantage of anyone.

Kidd was a very good defender but in his last few years he was a negative player on offense. CP3 at the same age is much better than him on that side of the floor, not worth even comparing them as a shooters and shot creators.

No one should expect all-NBA CP3 but you could do A LOT worse than having CP3 as PG. This is arguably CP3's worst season of his career, which is not unexpected as he's old as dirt and even then he's averaging around 14/4/9 on 43/36/83 shooting splits. Far from his heyday but that line is eerily close to these stats 13/5/9 (42/36/86). These numbers come from Ricky Rubio's best season which was when he was with the Suns.

You could do better but you could also do a lot worst than CP3 as your starting PG. The good thing is with KD, you don't need CP3 to be have b2b all-star performances or go 14 for 14 to win games

[spanishninja]

No one is scared of the Mavs. Some in the forum are saying that they we hope we get the Mavs in the 1st round. I think those ppl who say that are smart. Mavs are ripe for a 1st round loss. Followed by Kyrie leaving in the summer, followed by Luka demanding out in the next 2 years.

and I think unlike last year, when their team had nothing to lose and didn't really know their ceiling, this year's team clearly knows they're not going anywhere. even if they somehow win the first round, they are getting rolled the next.

Expectations are higher after they went to the WCF similar to how the Suns made the finals everyone now expects us to win it all or it's considered a massive failure.

I do think the Mavs got incredibly lucky by their players getting incredibly hot along with the Suns having some internal strife along with either illness or covid. It was just a perfect storm and I think if we were fully healthy we would have beaten them in 6.

expectations may have been quite high when the Kyrie trade was initially made, although I would say even some at the time figured this was more of a "next year" move for them. but now that they have seen how it has royally blown up in their faces, I doubt anybody in Dallas is expecting much anymore for this year.

[Sunlight]

Now that GSW took care of the Pelicans, it would seem that Suns - GSW will be the playoff pair. I hope the Suns keep the home advantage. At least 5-2 for the rest of the season.

Why are you ruling out the Twolves? We know Clippers will drop from 5th seed without PG for few weeks. Wolves are a half game behind the Warriors for 6th seed and one game behind the Clippers. If they manage to beat Suns tomorrow it could very likely set up a Suns-Wolves first round matchup.

Yes, you are right, the upcoming match against Wolves is critical in terms of whether it will be GSW or Wolves. The Clippers' schedule is taking them down. I'd still take GSW over Wolves if Wiggins is still out. I think it's very possible that Edwards can make a bad mark defensively against Booker as seen by Jrue and Jimmie boy.

[Slim Charless]

Now that GSW took care of the Pelicans, it would seem that Suns - GSW will be the playoff pair. I hope the Suns keep the home advantage. At least 5-2 for the rest of the season.

Why are you ruling out the Twolves? We know Clippers will drop from 5th seed without PG for few weeks. Wolves are a half game behind the Warriors for 6th seed and one game behind the Clippers. If they manage to beat Suns tomorrow it could very likely set up a Suns-Wolves first round matchup.

Yes, you are right, the upcoming match against Wolves is critical in terms of whether it will be GSW or Wolves. The Clippers' schedule is taking them down. I'd still take GSW over Wolves if Wiggins is still out. I think it's very possible that Edwards can make a bad mark defensively against Booker as seen by Jrue and Jimmie boy.

Wiggins is going through some wild stuff. I'd be surprised if he's back at all this season. Next season might be in question too tbh.

I want the Dubs or Mavs mostly.

[lonea]

man, some of you are crazy for wanting the Warrior before the WCF

Draymond will mentally abuse ayton to no end.

[Sunlight]

man, some of you are crazy for wanting the Warrior before the WCF

Draymond will mentally abuse ayton to no end.

So he takes the easy part and lets Durant knock off 50 points. Congrats to him.

[Fo-Real]

man, some of you are crazy for wanting the Warrior before the WCF

Draymond will mentally abuse ayton to no end.

Don't intentionally want the Dubs at all. "They specialize in the ridiculous", to steal a quote form the A-Team movie. The fact that hot shooters in Steph, Clay and Pool can throw up behind the back or over the shoulder half courters and hit them when they are hot and defense doesn't matter is scary.

[lonea]

man, some of you are crazy for wanting the Warrior before the WCF

Draymond will mentally abuse ayton to no end.

So he takes the easy part and lets Durant knock off 50 points. Congrats to him.

yea, and ayton will be sitting on the bench and force Durant to play the 5.

[POLI]

We can win it all with him as our starting PG and that's the plan.

He is one of the best PGs in the history of the game and even at his age he is producing and orchestrating nicely our sets.

Just remember Jason Kidd on the Mavs. He was old but he was Jason **** Kidd. He helped them to win a championship being 37/38 years old.

Jason Kidd was still a stellar defender in the Mavs title run using his 6’4 frame and strength to his advantage.

CP3 is barely 6’0 and at this point in his career he cannot defend a chair.

If CP3 is 6'0 Jason Kidd is 6'3 (both barefoot), no need to exaggerate their difference in height.

CP3 is small but even at his age he is yet a solid defender, with a crazy basketball IQ and quick hands.

People were saying that Doncic took advantage of him in the past playoffs... and what? It is Doncic and he takes advantage of anyone.

Kidd was a very good defender but in his last few years he was a negative player on offense. CP3 at the same age is much better than him on that side of the floor, not worth even comparing them as a shooters and shot creators.

No disrespect to CP, but I do believe that we need someone different there to have a chance to a tittle.
I also believe that we need to cook this food better to have that option.
So for me the big problem with this group is to find a PG who is young enough so it is worth it to sing him. Veteran enough to be a leader (Booker, KD, Ayton), humble enough to listen to KD and Booker. Good enough to play with them. Humble enough to be able to shoot 5 times and dish 12 assists.
So the right piece is CP, but he would need to stay really healthy and we need Payne to be good enough to play 82 games at 28 mpg so CP can arrive to the PO healthy enough.

A different option would mean to find someone who then has to complement and find a balance with the current roster, which usually takes longer than a season for accomplishments to arrive.

[Bogyo]

If you say something like that, you have to back it up. He's (Paul) going to be the target of many teams in the playoffs. So I think there's an obvious weakness and we should be prepared to sit him if he's not getting it done. Can't say much beyond that.

Others have before I had the chance.
But yeah, mainly his defense (he got abused last year, and he is one year and 2 injuries older). But also his shot taking and making - his numbers are dropping. It will be worse in the playoffs against better competition. Sorry. He is basically on the same trajectory than Stockton was after his finals appearance. Not similar, the exact same.

[bwgood77]

and I think unlike last year, when their team had nothing to lose and didn't really know their ceiling, this year's team clearly knows they're not going anywhere. even if they somehow win the first round, they are getting rolled the next.

The Mavs have been in a funk, and like us, they gave up depth, role players and picks for a second superstar. Given their recent struggles, they could miss the playoffs (people could have said the same about us if we hadn't earlier stacked up a few more wins). But they are also a team that could go a long way if they start to gell.

Like us, they have 2 top 15 players including one in the top 5. Most rankings I've seen have Luka higher than KD. I do think KD has played better this year when he has played though...as he has had unbelievable efficiency.

The problem is Luka has missed so many games with Kyrie out many of them and it would be like us trading all our depth and then missing Booker and KD. It would be nearly impossible to beat anyone.

Not long ago they were right with us around 5 and 6, before those guys were out after the trade. I do fear the Clips and Grizz the most though. Any team that can get really hot from 3 on high volume and has a lot of depth could be trouble for us.

Kyrie is not top 15. I can easily name 20 players I'd rather have. All are better than Ky. He's great of course but you're going overboard there.

Given everything he isn't, but when he's playing, he probably is. He was ranked between 10 and 15 before his shenanigans, and even for a while after. But given his whole package of what you get from him on and off the court, he isn't, and has therefore dropped into the 20s. But if you are just talking clutch playoff performers, he is probably top 10.

[spanishninja]

The Mavs have been in a funk, and like us, they gave up depth, role players and picks for a second superstar. Given their recent struggles, they could miss the playoffs (people could have said the same about us if we hadn't earlier stacked up a few more wins). But they are also a team that could go a long way if they start to gell.

Like us, they have 2 top 15 players including one in the top 5. Most rankings I've seen have Luka higher than KD. I do think KD has played better this year when he has played though...as he has had unbelievable efficiency.

The problem is Luka has missed so many games with Kyrie out many of them and it would be like us trading all our depth and then missing Booker and KD. It would be nearly impossible to beat anyone.

Not long ago they were right with us around 5 and 6, before those guys were out after the trade. I do fear the Clips and Grizz the most though. Any team that can get really hot from 3 on high volume and has a lot of depth could be trouble for us.

Kyrie is not top 15. I can easily name 20 players I'd rather have. All are better than Ky. He's great of course but you're going overboard there.

Given everything he isn't, but when he's playing, he probably is. He was ranked between 10 and 15 before his shenanigans, and even for a while after. But given his whole package of what you get from him on and off the court, he isn't, and has therefore dropped into the 20s. But if you are just talking clutch playoff performers, he is probably top 10.

getting a top 15 player isn't really enough to sacrifice what they did, considering they were already a less talented team than us before the respective trades. we got a top 5 player when healthy and the jury is still definitely open when it comes to how much eh will help us.

[bwgood77]

Kyrie is not top 15. I can easily name 20 players I'd rather have. All are better than Ky. He's great of course but you're going overboard there.

Given everything he isn't, but when he's playing, he probably is. He was ranked between 10 and 15 before his shenanigans, and even for a while after. But given his whole package of what you get from him on and off the court, he isn't, and has therefore dropped into the 20s. But if you are just talking clutch playoff performers, he is probably top 10.

getting a top 15 player isn't really enough to sacrifice what they did, considering they were already a less talented team than us before the respective trades. we got a top 5 player when healthy and the jury is still definitely open when it comes to how much eh will help us.

Kyrie is obviously no KD, but they didn't sacrifice that much, not nearly as much as we did. But losing Brunson since last year was big. Maybe they will miss the playoffs, get really lucky in the lottery and get Victor, or even Scoot or Brandon Miller. Tried a tankathon mock just now and on 2nd try they jumped to second and got Miller.

[Slim Charless]

The Mavs have been in a funk, and like us, they gave up depth, role players and picks for a second superstar. Given their recent struggles, they could miss the playoffs (people could have said the same about us if we hadn't earlier stacked up a few more wins). But they are also a team that could go a long way if they start to gell.

Like us, they have 2 top 15 players including one in the top 5. Most rankings I've seen have Luka higher than KD. I do think KD has played better this year when he has played though...as he has had unbelievable efficiency.

The problem is Luka has missed so many games with Kyrie out many of them and it would be like us trading all our depth and then missing Booker and KD. It would be nearly impossible to beat anyone.

Not long ago they were right with us around 5 and 6, before those guys were out after the trade. I do fear the Clips and Grizz the most though. Any team that can get really hot from 3 on high volume and has a lot of depth could be trouble for us.

Kyrie is not top 15. I can easily name 20 players I'd rather have. All are better than Ky. He's great of course but you're going overboard there.

Given everything he isn't, but when he's playing, he probably is. He was ranked between 10 and 15 before his shenanigans, and even for a while after. But given his whole package of what you get from him on and off the court, he isn't, and has therefore dropped into the 20s. But if you are just talking clutch playoff performers, he is probably top 10.

I'm talking about currently right now, who are the best 20 players in the league:

KD
Booker
Tatum
Embiid
Joker
Giannis
Luka
Dame
Bam
Haliburton
Curry
SGA
Ant 1
Kawhi
Donovan Mitchell
Mobley
Sabonis
Jimmy Butler
Ja
Jaylen Brown
Trae
Harden
(Lebron)
(AD)
(Zion)


That's 24 players. I put the ones who are health dependent in parentheses but those 3 are also way better provided they play.

So who amongst those players are you putting Kyrie over? Ill give you maybe Harden and Trae but both of their teams would say no to a swap if offered Ky.

Who is he better then out of the players that I listed?

[Ghost of Kleine]

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[kennydorglas]

Kyrie on ball ability is just non sense
He's probably the only guard who won a shootout against a healthy GSW in the playoffs.

[Ghost of Kleine]

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[kennydorglas]

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geez LAL has 2 games against utah