Lillard: I don't want to be a part of a rebuild.

[m0ng0]

Could we even trade one of our first rounders this off season as of right now?

[red_power]

And besides that we are just scratching the surface with Sharpe

I wouldn't overreact to Shaedon's performances just yet. His weaknesses are so glaring that it scares a bit.
Sure, he will add some strength and become a better player defensively and more versatile offensively. But can he significantly improve his court vision and Bbal IQ? Those are really big question marks.

Frankly, I think Jaylen is the best case for the kind of player we might expect Sharpe to grow into in a couple of years.

[DusterBuster]

Could we even trade one of our first rounders this off season as of right now?

Yes.

[BlazersBroncos]

And besides that we are just scratching the surface with Sharpe

I wouldn't overreact to Shaedon's performances just yet. His weaknesses are so glaring that it scares a bit.
Sure, he will add some strength and become a better player defensively and more versatile offensively. But can he significantly improve his court vision and Bbal IQ? Those are really big question marks.

Frankly, I think Jaylen is the best case for the kind of player we might expect Sharpe to grow into in a couple of years.

Sharpe ending up on Brown's level is an amazing return for a #7 pick. I do see the similarities, Brown still isnt a great passer or ballhandler. I dont think Sharpe ever becomes elite in either function, but there is plenty else to like.

(His deficiencies in handle and passing are a reason I think he is a bad fit next to Ant if we do move on from Dame - this kid needs a real floor general at PG - ideally someone like Garland, in a perfect world)

[m0ng0]

Could we even trade one of our first rounders this off season as of right now?

Yes.

Maybe I misunderstood, but I thought there was something with Chicago that must be done?

And Sharpe is 19, kid may not even be done growing, I think the 3 is the spot for him, and considering he didn't even play any truly competitive ball last year I think he is way ahead of expectations.

[DusterBuster]

Could we even trade one of our first rounders this off season as of right now?

Yes.

Maybe I misunderstood, but I thought there was something with Chicago that must be done?

And Sharpe is 19, kid may not even be done growing, I think the 3 is the spot for him, and considering he didn't even play any truly competitive ball last year I think he is way ahead of expectations.

So it's messy, but there are a lot of scenarios where Portland can still trade picks.

They can still trade one or both picks they have this year, flat out. No problem there. It's trading future picks that gets sticky.

If they wanted to trade a future pick, they technically could trade it if they reverse protected the pick (so it go to one team if its 1-14, goes to Bulls if its 15-30). This definitely gets complex however and would require a lot of additional stipulations, so while possible, highly unlikely scenario.

They could (and likely will) trade the Knicks pick to Chicago to get their own pick back. For anyone who might say "why would the Bulls do that and let Portland off the hook?", for the simple fact that it will guarantee the Bulls get a 1st rounder out of that deal. The protections on the pick the Blazers traded guarantees it will never be a lottery pick. If it doesn't convey by like... something **** stupid like 2182, it turns into a 2nd rounder. By taking the guaranteed #23 pick now vs waiting hoping it conveys a different year in the 15-22 range is a bad gamble on the Bulls part. It's just as likely the Blazers end up missing the playoffs for the next few years and all they end up with is a 2nd rounder.

[m0ng0]

Yes.

Maybe I misunderstood, but I thought there was something with Chicago that must be done?

And Sharpe is 19, kid may not even be done growing, I think the 3 is the spot for him, and considering he didn't even play any truly competitive ball last year I think he is way ahead of expectations.

So it's messy, but there are a lot of scenarios where Portland can still trade picks.

They can still trade one or both picks they have this year, flat out. No problem there. It's trading future picks that gets sticky.

If they wanted to trade a future pick, they technically could trade it if they reverse protected the pick (so it go to one team if its 1-14, goes to Bulls if its 15-30). This definitely gets complex however and would require a lot of additional stipulations, so while possible, highly unlikely scenario.

They could (and likely will) trade the Knicks pick to Chicago to get their own pick back. For anyone who might say "why would the Bulls do that and let Portland off the hook?", for the simple fact that it will guarantee the Bulls get a 1st rounder out of that deal. The protections on the pick the Blazers traded guarantees it will never be a lottery pick. If it doesn't convey by like... something **** stupid like 2182, it turns into a 2nd rounder. By taking the guaranteed #23 pick now vs waiting hoping it conveys a different year in the 15-22 range is a bad gamble on the Bulls part. It's just as likely the Blazers end up missing the playoffs for the next few years and all they end up with is a 2nd rounder.

Thank you for that man, I appreciate it.

[DeBlazerRiddem]

If we end up trading Lillard then I doubt we give the Bulls anything. Let them collect a couple second round picks in 2028 or whatever lol.


I know they say a pick loses value as soon as it becomes a player but I think a successful draft pick can eventually be more valuable than a blank draft pick, like Kessler would be worth more to teams this summer than the #22 pick he was taken at. If you can uncover a gem, teams will happily treat them as more valuable than a mid 20's pick even with a couple years off their rookie scale. Of course you are taking all the risk and really stacking the chips on that Schmitz acquisition paying off in the draft but a confident team might find extra value making the pick rather than paying to escape the obligation.


But if the plan is to keep Lillard and make a big move this summer then sending the NYK pick to Chicago and immediately having access to all our future picks is a very likely scenario, even if I don't know who is available out there worth mortgaging our entire future for.

[DusterBuster]

If we end up trading Lillard then I doubt we give the Bulls anything. Let them collect a couple second round picks in 2028 or whatever lol.

I know they say a pick loses value as soon as it becomes a player but I think a successful draft pick can eventually be more valuable than a blank draft pick, like Kessler would be worth more to teams this summer than the #22 pick he was taken at. If you can uncover a gem, teams will happily treat them as more valuable than a mid 20's pick even with a couple years off their rookie scale. Of course you are taking all the risk and really stacking the chips on that Schmitz acquisition paying off in the draft but a confident team might find extra value making the pick rather than paying to escape the obligation.

But if the plan is to keep Lillard and make a big move this summer then sending the NYK pick to Chicago and immediately having access to all our future picks is a very likely scenario, even if I don't know who is available out there worth mortgaging our entire future for.

I agree with this, the hard part is going to be the timing of it all. They may not know whats going to happen with Dame by the draft. If the Blazers do end up just keeping the Knicks pick, I think that could be telling for what's to come with Dame. The draft lottery as well.

[PDXKnight]

If we end up trading Lillard then I doubt we give the Bulls anything. Let them collect a couple second round picks in 2028 or whatever lol.

I know they say a pick loses value as soon as it becomes a player but I think a successful draft pick can eventually be more valuable than a blank draft pick, like Kessler would be worth more to teams this summer than the #22 pick he was taken at. If you can uncover a gem, teams will happily treat them as more valuable than a mid 20's pick even with a couple years off their rookie scale. Of course you are taking all the risk and really stacking the chips on that Schmitz acquisition paying off in the draft but a confident team might find extra value making the pick rather than paying to escape the obligation.

But if the plan is to keep Lillard and make a big move this summer then sending the NYK pick to Chicago and immediately having access to all our future picks is a very likely scenario, even if I don't know who is available out there worth mortgaging our entire future for.

I agree with this, the hard part is going to be the timing of it all. They may not know whats going to happen with Dame by the draft. If the Blazers do end up just keeping the Knicks pick, I think that could be telling for what's to come with Dame. The draft lottery as well.

I know it's not mentioned as much but I'd consider tossing them a package of seconds and seeing how far that gets us before even mentioning the knicks pick. Id have to think they'd consider a package of the seconds from the gs trade vs a mere chance at a 15-30 in the next 5 years that may turn into 2 seconds anyway quite possibly

The nyk pick like everyone said depends entirely on the game plan. If we deal dame obviously no firsts should be dealt it's all gotta be about keeping our firsts and if Chicago would take the seconds deal maybe taking off the protections from our own pick. Chicago only holds leverage if we are in win now mode but we don't have to reveal our game plan to them unless our moves have already given away where we are headed. But if we deal Dame hopefully we aren't stupid and make dealing Dame the first thing we do rather than give away our plans and as a result end up with a hot garbage return. Yes we should take less to do him a solid but that doesn't mean we shouldn't bargain either

[BlazersBroncos]

I know it's not mentioned as much but I'd consider tossing them a package of seconds and seeing how far that gets us before even mentioning the knicks pick. Id have to think they'd consider a package of the seconds from the gs trade vs a mere chance at a 15-30 in the next 5 years that may turn into 2 seconds anyway quite possibly

There is absolutely no chance CHI trades a protected future FRP for a few future SRPs.

Maybe if we had a SRP this year in the 31-36 range they would do that + 3-4 future SRP for the rights back, but we dont, and even if we did, I dont think any team in their right mind trades a FRP that isnt locked (IE sometimes you see 28 for 33 and future SRPs). A smart team holds out to see if that turns into a middle FRP, which is much more valuable than any assortment of SRP.

This isnt a charity league. If we want that pick back CHI will know its b/c we need it to make a big offer (IE 3/3 offer) for a needle mover. If I was in their shoes I demand the NYK pick and multiple SRPs. I know I would expect the Blazers management to do the same if the situations were reversed, as we all would.

[DusterBuster]

I know it's not mentioned as much but I'd consider tossing them a package of seconds and seeing how far that gets us before even mentioning the knicks pick. Id have to think they'd consider a package of the seconds from the gs trade vs a mere chance at a 15-30 in the next 5 years that may turn into 2 seconds anyway quite possibly

I get your point and I'm sure Cronin will try to get the best deal he can to pay it off, but the reality is that if we know how much this pick is handcuffing the Blazers, best know the Bulls understand this as well. They traded for a 1st round pick, they'll want a first round pick... and Portland has a first round pick this year that falls around where that pick would convey if Portland makes the playoffs.

Whats really screwing any leverage from the Blazers here is how freaking long Olshey left this out for. In ever other deal, its only like a one or two year timeframe before it reverts or changes so it can be paid off. Why Olshey put a **** 6 or 7 year stipulation on that pick is just mind numbingly stupid.

So from the Bulls perspective, while yes, it's possible the pick could turn into seconds, the better possibility is that eventually from now til 2028, the Blazers will make the playoffs and they'll get a 1st rounder. Odds are in that favor, the Bulls know it, so they would be fine waiting that out, but I'm sure they'd also love to just get the guaranteed first that the Knicks pick represents.

The nyk pick like everyone said depends entirely on the game plan. If we deal dame obviously no firsts should be dealt it's all gotta be about keeping our firsts and if Chicago would take the seconds deal maybe taking off the protections from our own pick. Chicago only holds leverage if we are in win now mode but we don't have to reveal our game plan to them unless our moves have already given away where we are headed. But if we deal Dame hopefully we aren't stupid and make dealing Dame the first thing we do rather than give away our plans and as a result end up with a hot garbage return. Yes we should take less to do him a solid but that doesn't mean we shouldn't bargain either

Yep, which again is why so much depends on the lottery. If Portland moves up into the top 4 or even, dare we to dream, into #1, the Blazers summer will be very different than if they stay at 5-7 (or nightmare scenario of moving down).

Any potential Dame deal I would think would be at or after the draft.

In the scenario of the Blazers staying at their draft position or dropping, I could see a draft day trade with him being a legit possibility, depending on who got up into the spots above them. If the Blazers make the pick but don't move Dame at the draft, then watch what happens with the Knicks pick. If they just use that pick, that should indicate a Dame trade is likely after the draft. If they trade it to Chicago, that should indicate they're planning for an all-in deal - but still with an off-chance of a Dame deal if that doesn't come through.

Ideally in this scenario (if you want to keep Dame), the Blazers will have made a deal before or during the draft that involves their draft pick and there won't need to be any tea-leave reading necessary.

[GEE]

Rebuild... I think it gets completed by summers' end with or without Dame. This summer will be crazy busy for Cronin and I'm sure the work has already begun, but I think the roster is already half rebuilt. Several big decisions about current players will need to be made. Sharpe and Simons IMO have 0% chance of going anywhere. All others....

What to do with the draft capital Cronin has accumulated is the big question IMO. My hope is that Cronin uses as many of our draft picks over the next 3 years as needed, as the primary assetts in trade. Lots of picks + filler to get the Center and PF that we all know we are missing, if Nurkic and Winslow(God I hope not) are toast. I think Cronin needs to identify the perfect addition, and pay whatever it takes to get him... In PICKS. If Chauncey gets smart, and gets Simons to be 6th man, I think we are really close to being really good... if Dame will stay. If he wants to bail... I'm fine with that too.

Dame / Simons / Keon
Sharpe / Thybulle
Grant / Little
Winslow / Watford / Walker
??? / Eubanks

[BlazersBroncos]

and gets Simons to be 6th man, I think we are really close to being really good

To add talent we need to give to get - and Simons is tops as a movable asset. We dont have the luxury of a Simons as a 6th man, we dont have nearly good enough starting talent and to improve that we cant just use picks, we need salary. And Simons is going to be much more attractive to other teams than Nurkic - who I think has clear negative value to many teams taking into account how many decent enough C's are out there for much cheaper and how poor a fit he is in many systems.

[DusterBuster]

Rebuild... I think it gets completed by summers' end with or without Dame. This summer will be crazy busy for Cronin and I'm sure the work has already begun, but I think the roster is already half rebuilt. Several big decisions about current players will need to be made. Sharpe and Simons IMO have 0% chance of going anywhere. All others....

What to do with the draft capital Cronin has accumulated is the big question IMO. My hope is that Cronin uses as many of our draft picks over the next 3 years as needed, as the primary assetts in trade. Lots of picks + filler to get the Center and PF that we all know we are missing, if Nurkic and Winslow(God I hope not) are toast. I think Cronin needs to identify the perfect addition, and pay whatever it takes to get him... In PICKS. If Chauncey gets smart, and gets Simons to be 6th man, I think we are really close to being really good... if Dame will stay. If he wants to bail... I'm fine with that too.

Dame / Simons / Keon
Sharpe / Thybulle
Grant / Little
Winslow / Watford / Walker
??? / Eubanks

You’re not getting Simons to come off the bench.

I genuinely don’t get why this team didn’t work. There is a lot of talent, just the pieces are a weird fit.

Never loved the Dame / Simons pairing. Just felt it was a repeat of Dame CJ, but those two complemented each other a lot better. Dame and Simons are too similar. CJ was more creative of an offensive player and had more spots to get his points from than Simons (or Dame really with mid-range). Dame and Simons are behind the arch or cutting to the basket, so they’re worse duplication than Dame and CJ were.

Then Grant was awesome to start, but just fell off a cliff. I’m guessing he fought through some injury after like… Dec/Jan. He had that stretch when Dame was out where he was killing it, then wasn’t the same after, so I think he got some sort of nagging injury around then and was not quite the same.

But again, Simons needed to be a 6th man like you said, but you can’t do that after you pay a guy 25mil per. Kills his trade value and his morale. Dame with Hart starting at SG would have balanced this team out sooooo much better and having Simons kill teams in the second unit, but that was never realistic of a scenario when you factor in offcourt /contracts.

[Wizenheimer]

not really related, much, to the Dame situation, but the Blazers screwed up, once again, by allowing Olshey to fire Stotts and hire Billups. Olshey should have been fired first and he should have never been in the position of hand-picking the next coach. His tenure was filled with mistakes and miscalculations and that was one of his last. And I haven't seen anything from the first 2 years of Billups than makes me believe he deserves a 3rd year. But I imagine he'll get it, unfortunately...

****************************************************************************************************************

contrary to rumors and speculation I don't think anything has changed in the Dame situation. Portland will not trade Dame unless he asks out. He may be closer to doing that than he was a year ago, but I'd imagine he's still pretty reluctant to go that direction
*****************************************************************************************************************

if it does come to the point that Dame asks to be traded, I hope that the Blazers don't continue the olshey tradition of straddling every fence in sight. Not only should Portland shop Dame, they should shop Nurkic, Grant (if he re-signs), and Simons. Blazers are not going to get any high lottery picks in a Dame trade, so the only way they can get them is to become a bottom feeding team. Simons can get hot some games, but he's not going to be able to correct the flaws to his game to any significant degree. And I think he's developing too much MeJ in his game to leave him as the primary option. Unfortunately Cronin overpaid him last summer so he'll be harder to move
******************************************************************************************************************

I think people have to get rid of the fantasies that Portland is going to get some kind of godfather package for Dame. The only teams that would be interested in him are those that are already contenders or so close that Dame might make them so. That's a limited market and those teams are almost never sitting on a good collection of draft picks....but they all probably have crappy contracts they'd need to use and Portland would have to accept

I think the Blazers would try real hard to send Dame to the Eastern Conference, so maybe look at teams like Philly and Miami

[DusterBuster]

not really related, much, to the Dame situation, but the Blazers screwed up, once again, by allowing Olshey to fire Stotts and hire Billups. Olshey should have been fired first and he should have never been in the position of hand-picking the next coach. His tenure was filled with mistakes and miscalculations and that was one of his last. And I haven't seen anything from the first 2 years of Billups than makes me believe he deserves a 3rd year. But I imagine he'll get it, unfortunately...

This is so painfully accurate. Stotts could coach circles around Billups and Chauncey most definitely does not deserver a year 3, he's proven nothing and not shown any growth. The players do swear by him, but outside of player respect, I'm not sure what else he brings as a coach.

contrary to rumors and speculation I don't think anything has changed in the Dame situation. Portland will not trade Dame unless he asks out. He may be closer to doing that than he was a year ago, but I'd imagine he's still pretty reluctant to go that direction

As of this very moment, I suspect you're right. At a certain point though, I do think some hard conversations need to be had on both sides. Particularly I think the Blazers franchise needs to tell Dame they might have to trade him to move on and that it'll be best for everyone, even if Dame doesn't ask out. But we'll see...

I think people have to get rid of the fantasies that Portland is going to get some kind of godfather package for Dame. The only teams that would be interested in him are those that are already contenders or so close that Dame might make them so. That's a limited market and those teams are almost never sitting on a good collection of draft picks....but they all probably have crappy contracts they'd need to use and Portland would have to accept

I think the Blazers would try real hard to send Dame to the Eastern Conference, so maybe look at teams like Philly and Miami

Again, I'm gonna do a "wait and see" about the "godfather package for Dame" part. I actually do think a team will give up a lot of picks to get him. There are contenders or close-to contenders out there who would break the bank for Dame still I believe with a deal that included something in the range of 4 FRP's (2 unprotected, 2 swap sort of deal) along with a young player or two. And one thing we see consistently in these deals, the team making that all-in move rarely gets the better end of the deal in the long-run even though they're the one getting the star player. Usually after a season or two its going poorly for them.

Of the teams I think would be interested:

Miami, NYK, Brooklyn (I think they'll want a quick turnaround), Philly, Milwaukee (I could see Giannis pushing for it), Boston, Chicago, Toronto. Pretty much the entire PO field for the East would be interested. Wizards would do it too actually, they're super committed to never bottoming out, so throw them in the mix. I even bet Atlanta would swap Trae for Dame if they could, I don't think they love him that much there.

So yeah, I really don't buy the Blazers would be short on good offers if that time comes.

[JRoy]

not really related, much, to the Dame situation, but the Blazers screwed up, once again, by allowing Olshey to fire Stotts and hire Billups. Olshey should have been fired first and he should have never been in the position of hand-picking the next coach. His tenure was filled with mistakes and miscalculations and that was one of his last. And I haven't seen anything from the first 2 years of Billups than makes me believe he deserves a 3rd year. But I imagine he'll get it, unfortunately...

****************************************************************************************************************

contrary to rumors and speculation I don't think anything has changed in the Dame situation. Portland will not trade Dame unless he asks out. He may be closer to doing that than he was a year ago, but I'd imagine he's still pretty reluctant to go that direction
*****************************************************************************************************************

if it does come to the point that Dame asks to be traded, I hope that the Blazers don't continue the olshey tradition of straddling every fence in sight. Not only should Portland shop Dame, they should shop Nurkic, Grant (if he re-signs), and Simons. Blazers are not going to get any high lottery picks in a Dame trade, so the only way they can get them is to become a bottom feeding team. Simons can get hot some games, but he's not going to be able to correct the flaws to his game to any significant degree. And I think he's developing too much MeJ in his game to leave him as the primary option. Unfortunately Cronin overpaid him last summer so he'll be harder to move
******************************************************************************************************************

I think people have to get rid of the fantasies that Portland is going to get some kind of godfather package for Dame. The only teams that would be interested in him are those that are already contenders or so close that Dame might make them so. That's a limited market and those teams are almost never sitting on a good collection of draft picks....but they all probably have crappy contracts they'd need to use and Portland would have to accept

I think the Blazers would try real hard to send Dame to the Eastern Conference, so maybe look at teams like Philly and Miami

Giannis and Lillard are in the mutual admiration society so MIL is a possibility but their trade assets start with Middleton and end with yuck.

[DusterBuster]

not really related, much, to the Dame situation, but the Blazers screwed up, once again, by allowing Olshey to fire Stotts and hire Billups. Olshey should have been fired first and he should have never been in the position of hand-picking the next coach. His tenure was filled with mistakes and miscalculations and that was one of his last. And I haven't seen anything from the first 2 years of Billups than makes me believe he deserves a 3rd year. But I imagine he'll get it, unfortunately...

****************************************************************************************************************

contrary to rumors and speculation I don't think anything has changed in the Dame situation. Portland will not trade Dame unless he asks out. He may be closer to doing that than he was a year ago, but I'd imagine he's still pretty reluctant to go that direction
*****************************************************************************************************************

if it does come to the point that Dame asks to be traded, I hope that the Blazers don't continue the olshey tradition of straddling every fence in sight. Not only should Portland shop Dame, they should shop Nurkic, Grant (if he re-signs), and Simons. Blazers are not going to get any high lottery picks in a Dame trade, so the only way they can get them is to become a bottom feeding team. Simons can get hot some games, but he's not going to be able to correct the flaws to his game to any significant degree. And I think he's developing too much MeJ in his game to leave him as the primary option. Unfortunately Cronin overpaid him last summer so he'll be harder to move
******************************************************************************************************************

I think people have to get rid of the fantasies that Portland is going to get some kind of godfather package for Dame. The only teams that would be interested in him are those that are already contenders or so close that Dame might make them so. That's a limited market and those teams are almost never sitting on a good collection of draft picks....but they all probably have crappy contracts they'd need to use and Portland would have to accept

I think the Blazers would try real hard to send Dame to the Eastern Conference, so maybe look at teams like Philly and Miami

Giannis and Lillard are in the mutual admiration society so MIL is a possibility but their trade assets start with Middleton and end with yuck.

Yeah, there's a TON of ECF teams that would be interested in Lillard beyond just Philly and Miami (or NYK).

I think more importantly than what teams would be interested will be what teams would Lillard want to play for.

[HoopsFanAZ]

Portland needs a bigger, athletic back-up center than Drew — even though he has become an NBA hustle player with some nice moves.
Keeping him with Trendon, Matisse, and Walker makes 4 of a bench group that will play hard all the time. They could use more bench shooting and a guard with handles and passing.

That slow it down 2 step to the hoop of Trendon is nasty.