is Klay done?

[cpower]

Klay worth 75m for 3 years. same with Green. Keep them both and try to trade Poole is the winning play.

Poole, Wiggins and JK are the future. Loon will also play a large role in that.

Outside of Curry, Poole is the only person on our team that can create for himself or for others. He’s young and stuck behind two legends so he hasn’t been able to iron some key pieces. That will change tho and Klay may need to accept a role from the bench in the coming years.

25 mill per for Klay sounds right but sounds a little high for Dray. He should be more in the high teens or 20 mill per range.

if Poole is our future then we are toast. perfect tank commander. bad three pointer shooter, terrible decision maker and bad defender. Why do you want to build around someone who is not even top 100 player in the league.

[xdrta+]

Dray being the 2nd most important player yet will be paid the 5th highest is such a weird thing.

Draymond will get paid according to the market--do you think anyone will offer him more than that?

No I don't, it's just a weird thing. Just like JP possibly being the 2nd highest paid player will be wild.

Only if Klay or Curry is traded.

[killmongrel]

I really hope that JP continues to play well. But he needs to be traded this summer.

[wco81]

I really hope that JP continues to play well. But he needs to be traded this summer.

Why?

To get his salary off the books?

It's not as if they clear his salary, which would take at least two seasons if they trade him for expiring contracts, they're going to be able to sign some players worth more than the MLE.

Lacob will pay less taxes but no guarantee he'd use those savings to add another 6th man of the year type. Or even someone worth $15-20 million.

Not as if shipping off Poole makes it easier to retain Draymond. Nobody wants to give him more than 3 years and he's going to be looking for 4 or 5 years.


Poole is young and he has a chance to draw FTs at a higher rate than anyone on the team including Curry.

They absolutely needed him to win last year, took the load off Steph and Klay, even helped expand the lead in some playoffs games while Curry was sitting.

It's going to be like that going forward, teams are going to sell out on Steph and Klay so you need someone who can attack the opponents' 3rd or 4th best defender out on the floor.

He's still developing and has started to look for chances to draw fouls int he last 20 games or so.

I agree he can't be your best player and he doesn't have to be right now. He's going to have to beef up to be more effective on both sides of the ball.

If the idea is to tank after Steph retires, then it makes sense to ship off the young guys at some point, maximize chances to get top 5 or top 3 picks for 2 or 3 drafts, hoping one develops into a franchise player.

Even then no guarantees, look at all the lotto picks on the Rockets. Or for that matter the Hawks. Now Magic and OKC are trending in the right direction, maybe Detroit too if Cade and Ivey develop.

But FRPs are not all guaranteed to become 20 MPG scorers so you can't just discard him because of his contract or he makes too many dumb plays -- you hope as he gains more experience, he will do better.

Anything you get back for Poole, no guarantee they make the Warriors better and you have to lean even more on Steph and Klay for scoring, who aren't spring chickens.

[killmongrel]

I really hope that JP continues to play well. But he needs to be traded this summer.

Why?

To get his salary off the books?

It's not as if they clear his salary, which would take at least two seasons if they trade him for expiring contracts, they're going to be able to sign some players worth more than the MLE.

Lacob will pay less taxes but no guarantee he'd use those savings to add another 6th man of the year type. Or even someone worth $15-20 million.

Not as if shipping off Poole makes it easier to retain Draymond. Nobody wants to give him more than 3 years and he's going to be looking for 4 or 5 years.


Poole is young and he has a chance to draw FTs at a higher rate than anyone on the team including Curry.

They absolutely needed him to win last year, took the load off Steph and Klay, even helped expand the lead in some playoffs games while Curry was sitting.

It's going to be like that going forward, teams are going to sell out on Steph and Klay so you need someone who can attack the opponents' 3rd or 4th best defender out on the floor.

He's still developing and has started to look for chances to draw fouls int he last 20 games or so.

I agree he can't be your best player and he doesn't have to be right now. He's going to have to beef up to be more effective on both sides of the ball.

If the idea is to tank after Steph retires, then it makes sense to ship off the young guys at some point, maximize chances to get top 5 or top 3 picks for 2 or 3 drafts, hoping one develops into a franchise player.

Even then no guarantees, look at all the lotto picks on the Rockets. Or for that matter the Hawks. Now Magic and OKC are trending in the right direction, maybe Detroit too if Cade and Ivey develop.

But FRPs are not all guaranteed to become 20 MPG scorers so you can't just discard him because of his contract or he makes too many dumb plays -- you hope as he gains more experience, he will do better.

Anything you get back for Poole, no guarantee they make the Warriors better and you have to lean even more on Steph and Klay for scoring, who aren't spring chickens.

If Lacob is willing to pay all of these salaries then I'm fine with keeping him on the team. Do you think Lacob is doing that?

[wco81]

He has so far.

I guess if they flame out this year, they will be more inclined to make big changes.

Presumably it would be to make another run in future seasons, not necessarily to save on taxes.

As long as Chase Center is full (not just for Warriors games but the important non-basketball related events, which the team gets to keep all the profits) and the average price of tickets remains high.

Not sure what they need to replace with Poole's scoring.

He's increased PPG but much lower efficiency from 3. He's increased his FTAs though over last season. He's a streaky shooter but he could get hot in the playoffs. His playoffs shooting was great last year.

So you're not likely to get a 15-20 PPG scorer who is a two-way player. Teams aren't giving those up. It would be more players like Jordan Clarkson or Tyler Herro, neither of which are great defenders. Herro is shooting 38% from 3 this year, much better than Poole at 33.1%.

But Poole is going to the FT line almost double Herro's 2.7 FTA.

Would Herro make the team better? Maybe.

Warriors would probably have to give up scoring to get back more of a 3 and D type, not someone who can score, draw FTs or handle the ball and give Steph a breather.

Not going to happen but someone like Mikal Bridges would be great, as he's been developing more shots for himself off the dribble this season. His contract is very attractive so the Nets aren't trading him for Poole without FRPs probably.

If Raptors lose FVV or GTR or don't want to pay them, maybe Warriors can get OG from them without their ridiculous demand of 4 FRPs.

That would be great, he's a DPOY candidate and he'd be insurance for Wiggins flaking out next season or the rest of his career.

[killmongrel]

He has so far.

That doesn't necessarily mean he'll pay a, what, 500m plus payroll going forward Correct me if I'm wrong.

But if he is, then okay. But if this comes down to keeping Poole or Draymond, who are you picking? Because as much as I have my issues with Draymond, I value winning championships. And we have a better chance of winning one with Draymond than we do with Poole.

I also don't see Steph letting Klay walk especially if Klay agrees to a team friendly deal going forward.

We need Wiggins until further notice.

So that's why I see Poole as the odd man out here.

[floppymoose]

on a related note, my feeling that Klay+Poole=Disaster is borne out a bit by this data:
https://www.nba.com/stats/lineups/advanced?GroupQuantity=2&TeamID=1610612744&dir=D&slug=advanced&sort=MIN

It's the top 2 man lineups GS sorted my minutes. the first big minute lineup to have a negative differential is the Klay/Poole combo. Those two just really don't work together. They accentuate each others weaknesses.

[xdrta+]

I really hope that JP continues to play well. But he needs to be traded this summer.

Why?

To get his salary off the books?

It's not as if they clear his salary, which would take at least two seasons if they trade him for expiring contracts, they're going to be able to sign some players worth more than the MLE.

Lacob will pay less taxes but no guarantee he'd use those savings to add another 6th man of the year type. Or even someone worth $15-20 million.

Not as if shipping off Poole makes it easier to retain Draymond. Nobody wants to give him more than 3 years and he's going to be looking for 4 or 5 years.


Poole is young and he has a chance to draw FTs at a higher rate than anyone on the team including Curry.

They absolutely needed him to win last year, took the load off Steph and Klay, even helped expand the lead in some playoffs games while Curry was sitting.

It's going to be like that going forward, teams are going to sell out on Steph and Klay so you need someone who can attack the opponents' 3rd or 4th best defender out on the floor.

He's still developing and has started to look for chances to draw fouls int he last 20 games or so.

I agree he can't be your best player and he doesn't have to be right now. He's going to have to beef up to be more effective on both sides of the ball.

If the idea is to tank after Steph retires, then it makes sense to ship off the young guys at some point, maximize chances to get top 5 or top 3 picks for 2 or 3 drafts, hoping one develops into a franchise player.

Even then no guarantees, look at all the lotto picks on the Rockets. Or for that matter the Hawks. Now Magic and OKC are trending in the right direction, maybe Detroit too if Cade and Ivey develop.

But FRPs are not all guaranteed to become 20 MPG scorers so you can't just discard him because of his contract or he makes too many dumb plays -- you hope as he gains more experience, he will do better.

Anything you get back for Poole, no guarantee they make the Warriors better and you have to lean even more on Steph and Klay for scoring, who aren't spring chickens.

If Lacob is willing to pay all of these salaries then I'm fine with keeping him on the team. Do you think Lacob is doing that?

Lacob knew the costs when he signed these contracts, I don't know why all of a sudden he doesn't want to pay.

The alternative is to trade salary and get none back. That's not so simple, a team has to take a player into cap space and give up picks. The W's would then fill the roster spot(s) with minimum salary players, I guess. That's about the only way to save money, probably not Steph's dream for his remaining years.

I could see them trading Poole, or Klay, or Wiggins maybe, but only if they're getting as good or better talent back. You can't do that and save a bundle of money too.

[Onus]

Draymond will get paid according to the market--do you think anyone will offer him more than that?

No I don't, it's just a weird thing. Just like JP possibly being the 2nd highest paid player will be wild.

Only if Klay or Curry is traded.

I thought we were operating under the premise that klay was getting 25m/yr

[killmongrel]

.

If Lacob is willing to pay all of these salaries then I'm fine with keeping him on the team. Do you think Lacob is doing that?

Lacob knew the costs when he signed these contracts, I don't know why all of a sudden he doesn't want to pay.

The alternative is to trade salary and get none back. That's not so simple, a team has to take a player into cap space and give up picks. The W's would then fill the roster spot(s) with minimum salary players, I guess. That's about the only way to save money, probably not Steph's dream for his remaining years.

I could see them trading Poole, or Klay, or Wiggins maybe, but only if they're getting as good or better talent back. You can't do that and save a bundle of money too.

I'm just going by what Lacob has said during an interview. Maybe it was a negotiating tactic but damn, it could have had a part in creating some turmoil in the locker room over the summer.

But like I said, we'll see if he really is willing to pay the insane payroll that keeping all of these salaries will incur.

Also, let's say Lacob actually does want to pay all of these salaries. Why trade Jordan Poole for returning salaries. Well, maybe it's a variety of reasons. Jordan wants to start. If Klay extends, does Jordan eventually start over him? If not, is Jordan going to be content coming off the bench for the foreseeable future? I see him as somebody who wants to be a starter sooner than later. Does that pose issues going forward? At 28m a year, is he even a closer for this team when everybody is healthy. These are the issues I'm looking at and wondering if there are better fits out there.

Let's say OG or a similar level player becomes available in a trade. Being able to have a closing unit of Steph/Klay/Wiggins/OG/Draymond sounds pretty good. Or is keeping JP a better option?

Maybe Kuminga takes a serious leap forward soon and we don't even have a need looking for another two way player in the market.

But all of this is moot if Lacob actually is serious about not wanting to pay even more than he's paying now. Then it becomes who really is expendable. At the moment, I'm not giving up Steph, Klay, Wiggins, and Draymond.

[xdrta+]

No I don't, it's just a weird thing. Just like JP possibly being the 2nd highest paid player will be wild.

Only if Klay or Curry is traded.

I thought we were operating under the premise that klay was getting 25m/yr

Klay is making over $43 million next year.

[killmongrel]

No I don't, it's just a weird thing. Just like JP possibly being the 2nd highest paid player will be wild.

Only if Klay or Curry is traded.

I thought we were operating under the premise that klay was getting 25m/yr

I gotta be honest, I would be kind of salty if Klay doesn't take a friendlier deal than that.

[Onus]

Only if Klay or Curry is traded.

I thought we were operating under the premise that klay was getting 25m/yr

Klay is making over $43 million next year.

Dude this all started from someone saying klay signing for 25m/y and then green signing a 20m/y team friendly deals. And I said it's weird that Dray will be the 2nd most important player but will be the 5th highest player and also weird that jp would be the 2nd highest paid player in the scenario.

I don't know what you're responding to

[Onus]

Only if Klay or Curry is traded.

I thought we were operating under the premise that klay was getting 25m/yr

I gotta be honest, I would be kind of salty if Klay doesn't take a friendlier deal than that.

It'd be nice of him to but I'm not sure I'd expect him to.

[xdrta+]

If Lacob is willing to pay all of these salaries then I'm fine with keeping him on the team. Do you think Lacob is doing that?

Lacob knew the costs when he signed these contracts, I don't know why all of a sudden he doesn't want to pay.

The alternative is to trade salary and get none back. That's not so simple, a team has to take a player into cap space and give up picks. The W's would then fill the roster spot(s) with minimum salary players, I guess. That's about the only way to save money, probably not Steph's dream for his remaining years.

I could see them trading Poole, or Klay, or Wiggins maybe, but only if they're getting as good or better talent back. You can't do that and save a bundle of money too.

I'm just going by what Lacob has said during an interview. Maybe it was a negotiating tactic but damn, it could have had a part in creating some turmoil in the locker room over the summer.

But like I said, we'll see if he really is willing to pay the insane payroll that keeping all of these salaries will incur.

Also, let's say Lacob actually does want to pay all of these salaries. Why trade Jordan Poole for returning salaries. Well, maybe it's a variety of reasons. Jordan wants to start. If Klay extends, does Jordan eventually start over him? If not, is Jordan going to be content coming off the bench for the foreseeable future? I see him as somebody who wants to be a starter sooner than later. Does that pose issues going forward? At 28m a year, is he even a closer for this team when everybody is healthy. These are the issues I'm looking at and wondering if there are better fits out there.

Let's say OG or a similar level player becomes available in a trade. Being able to have a closing unit of Steph/Klay/Wiggins/OG/Draymond sounds pretty good. Or is keeping JP a better option?

Maybe Kuminga takes a serious leap forward soon and we don't even have a need looking for another two way player in the market.

But all of this is moot if Lacob actually is serious about not wanting to pay even more than he's paying now. Then it becomes who really is expendable. At the moment, I'm not giving up Steph, Klay, Wiggins, and Draymond.

My point was that Lacob knew exactly what the tax would be when he signed these salaries. He can't cry about it now like it's a big surprise. But sure, I have no problem if they trade Poole (most likely), Klay, or Wiggins, but they can't save much money doing it unless they dump them for picks and replace them off the scrap heap.

[xdrta+]

I thought we were operating under the premise that klay was getting 25m/yr

Klay is making over $43 million next year.

Dude this all started from someone saying klay signing for 25m/y and then green signing a 20m/y team friendly deals. And I said it's weird that Dray will be the 2nd most important player but will be the 5th highest player and also weird that jp would be the 2nd highest paid player in the scenario.

I don't know what you're responding to

I'm responding to you saying Poole would be the 2nd highest paid player on the team. I assumed you meant next year. If you're talking about 2 or 3 years down the road, then my mistake.

[Onus]

Klay is making over $43 million next year.

Dude this all started from someone saying klay signing for 25m/y and then green signing a 20m/y team friendly deals. And I said it's weird that Dray will be the 2nd most important player but will be the 5th highest player and also weird that jp would be the 2nd highest paid player in the scenario.

I don't know what you're responding to

I'm responding to you saying Poole would be the 2nd highest paid player on the team. I assumed you meant next year. If you're talking about 2 or 3 years down the road, then my mistake.

Well if Klay is making 25m it's obviously not next year ...

[xdrta+]

Well if Klay is making 25m it's obviously not next year ...

Like I said, my mistake, sorry.

[wco81]

on a related note, my feeling that Klay+Poole=Disaster is borne out a bit by this data:
https://www.nba.com/stats/lineups/advanced?GroupQuantity=2&TeamID=1610612744&dir=D&slug=advanced&sort=MIN

It's the top 2 man lineups GS sorted my minutes. the first big minute lineup to have a negative differential is the Klay/Poole combo. Those two just really don't work together. They accentuate each others weaknesses.

Yet they were responsible for the 5-game home winning streak before Curry returned.

Of course they got rolled on the road games before that streak.