2022-23 Season Discussion and Review - the Blockbuster trade and playoff downfall

[NapoleonII]

Luka seems like a NY dude.

Brunson / Luka was a hell of a back court, with Mitchell Robinson / RJ Barret.

Hell, I think Luka would look nice here, maybe post KD and CP3? 2026-7champs

Luka
Booker
3nD (Bridges?!)
PF / Old man KD
Ayton

[sunsbum]

Cam Payne is more of an X factor than DA.

[Saberestar]

We had all the roster available (once in a lifetime) against the Wolves and this was the rotation:

CP3/Payne
Book/Ross
Okogie/Craig
KD/Warren
Ayton/Biyombo

I love it. I LOVE IT.

Players out of the ideal rotation:

Shamet
Damion Lee
Wainright
Bazley
Landale

Monty finally puts Shamet on the DNP list.

[RedIndian]

I think the rotation will be situational and match-up dependent.

I think the biggest problem with this team is the lack of reliable off-ball shooting. That's been the biggest loss with the departure of Cam, Bridges and Crowder. If we had a reliable off-ball shooter who could also play reasonable defense, I think we'd be just about unstoppable.

Unfortunately, the players we have for those roles at the 2/3 and the 3/4 wing slots are all pretty flawed.

Ross certainly fits the bill of the shooter, but he's SUCH a bad defender, I don't know how he'll be playable in the later rounds of the playoffs.

Shamet's defense is solid, but I don't trust his shooting or his confidence. He makes his shots only when the team is playing well, and not when you really need it.

Lee is somewhere in the middle. Capable stand-still shooter, passable defensively, but doesn't really excel at anything. I'm a little puzzled by why he's been totally cut out of the rotation recently.

Wainwright's defense I like, but his shooting is completely unreliable.

Warren if he's healthy should play 15-20 mins. He'll give us efficient transition and mid-range offense, and isn't horrible defensively. Though of course he's not really a spacer.

Craig and Okogie aren't spacers either.

That's the biggest issue. I think our defense will hold up - in many ways it may be even better. But there's going to be a lack of fluidity unless we get that spacing aspect right. Of course, KD and Book alone should be an excellent playoff offense on their own, but when it comes to beating someone like the Bucks, we need to be absolutely perfect.

[Saberestar]

I think the rotation will be situational and match-up dependent.

I think the biggest problem with this team is the lack of reliable off-ball shooting. That's been the biggest loss with the departure of Cam, Bridges and Crowder. If we had a reliable off-ball shooter who could also play reasonable defense, I think we'd be just about unstoppable.

Unfortunately, the players we have for those roles at the 2/3 and the 3/4 wing slots are all pretty flawed.

Ross certainly fits the bill of the shooter, but he's SUCH a bad defender, I don't know how he'll be playable in the later rounds of the playoffs.

Shamet's defense is solid, but I don't trust his shooting or his confidence. He makes his shots only when the team is playing well, and not when you really need it.

Lee is somewhere in the middle. Capable stand-still shooter, passable defensively, but doesn't really excel at anything. I'm a little puzzled by why he's been totally cut out of the rotation recently.

Wainwright's defense I like, but his shooting is completely unreliable.

Warren if he's healthy should play 15-20 mins. He'll give us efficient transition and mid-range offense, and isn't horrible defensively. Though of course he's not really a spacer.

Craig and Okogie aren't spacers either.

That's the biggest issue. I think our defense will hold up - in many ways it may be even better. But there's going to be a lack of fluidity unless we get that spacing aspect right. Of course, KD and Book alone should be an excellent playoff offense on their own, but when it comes to beating someone like the Bucks, we need to be absolutely perfect.

I agree with most of your post but there are a couple of points I want to make about it.

I don't think the rotation will be situational and match-up dependent other than Landale/Biyombo.

Monty was trying to get their "perfect" rotation after getting KD and I think he has now a clear vision of what we have on the roster and how the fit together.

Biyombo over Landale makes sense with Ross AND Warren in the second unit. Landale's scoring isn't needed and Monty prefers a superlow usage C next to them and Payne.

I wouldn't be surprised if we play Landale over Biyombo if teams start fouling Biyombo to exploit his terrible FT percentage or we are in need of better space on offense, but even with his flaws I like Biyombo as a first backup C.

Regarding our shooting off the ball I somewhat agree but I think we have enough shooting with Book, KD, CP3 and Ross.

Payne, Craig and Warren are decent to good off-ball shooters too, so there is that. Damion Lee is the best one, but he is not better than any of the other guys. Monty can use him for some specific plays or in small doses.

[Ghost of Kleine]

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[spanishninja]

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Can they just NOT jinx us with these segments? Those really **** us over last year.

[Ghost of Kleine]

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This interesting (I guess)??
But does anyone think there might be a spot on the bench (as an assistant coach) for Nate McMillan heading into next season if he doesn't get scooped up somewhere??

[Jdiddy701]

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This interesting (I guess)??
But does anyone think there might be a spot on the bench (as an assistant coach) for Nate McMillan heading into next season if he doesn't get scooped up somewhere??

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=e2jUjMUourhO2823KONxMg

Yep something is up for sure.


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[Slim Charless]

Ish needs to fire Monty so then he can spend as much time as he wants with Nate. Hell, Shamet can come along and the 3 could do whatever they feel like.

[bwgood77]

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This interesting (I guess)??
But does anyone think there might be a spot on the bench (as an assistant coach) for Nate McMillan heading into next season if he doesn't get scooped up somewhere??

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=e2jUjMUourhO2823KONxMg

Yep something is up for sure.


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He really should be a head coach but for sure if he wouldn't mind being an assistant it would be great to have him, but he was an assistant at his last two stops in Indy and Atlanta before becoming the head coach. I'm sure he wouldn't mind being in Phx until he gets another head coaching job if he gets one.

[Jdiddy701]

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This interesting (I guess)??
But does anyone think there might be a spot on the bench (as an assistant coach) for Nate McMillan heading into next season if he doesn't get scooped up somewhere??

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=e2jUjMUourhO2823KONxMg

Yep something is up for sure.


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He really should be a head coach but for sure if he wouldn't mind being an assistant it would be great to have him, but he was an assistant at his last two stops in Indy and Atlanta before becoming the head coach. I'm sure he wouldn't mind being in Phx until he gets another head coaching job if he gets one.

Here’s my wild thoughts on McMillan: Monty will move to a front office role with the Suns, promote Kevin Young as the head coach for the Suns and hire Nate McMillan as an assistant under Young. That’s all I have for today.


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[sasquatchBob]

Jason Kidd was still a stellar defender in the Mavs title run using his 6’4 frame and strength to his advantage.

CP3 is barely 6’0 and at this point in his career he cannot defend a chair.

If CP3 is 6'0 Jason Kidd is 6'3 (both barefoot), no need to exaggerate their difference in height.

CP3 is small but even at his age he is yet a solid defender, with a crazy basketball IQ and quick hands.

People were saying that Doncic took advantage of him in the past playoffs... and what? It is Doncic and he takes advantage of anyone.

Kidd was a very good defender but in his last few years he was a negative player on offense. CP3 at the same age is much better than him on that side of the floor, not worth even comparing them as a shooters and shot creators.

No disrespect to CP, but I do believe that we need someone different there to have a chance to a tittle.
I also believe that we need to cook this food better to have that option.
So for me the big problem with this group is to find a PG who is young enough so it is worth it to sing him. Veteran enough to be a leader (Booker, KD, Ayton), humble enough to listen to KD and Booker. Good enough to play with them. Humble enough to be able to shoot 5 times and dish 12 assists.
So the right piece is CP, but he would need to stay really healthy and we need Payne to be good enough to play 82 games at 28 mpg so CP can arrive to the PO healthy enough.

A different option would mean to find someone who then has to complement and find a balance with the current roster, which usually takes longer than a season for accomplishments to arrive.

Markelle Fultz

[Fo-Real]

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This interesting (I guess)??
But does anyone think there might be a spot on the bench (as an assistant coach) for Nate McMillan heading into next season if he doesn't get scooped up somewhere??

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=e2jUjMUourhO2823KONxMg

Yep something is up for sure.


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Pay Nate and put him on the goddamn bench immediately!! Nate is a great coach and would blend perfectly with a vet cast unlike the young clowns on the Hawks.

[bwgood77]

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=e2jUjMUourhO2823KONxMg

Yep something is up for sure.


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He really should be a head coach but for sure if he wouldn't mind being an assistant it would be great to have him, but he was an assistant at his last two stops in Indy and Atlanta before becoming the head coach. I'm sure he wouldn't mind being in Phx until he gets another head coaching job if he gets one.

Here’s my wild thoughts on McMillan: Monty will move to a front office role with the Suns, promote Kevin Young as the head coach for the Suns and hire Nate McMillan as an assistant under Young. That’s all I have for today.


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That would probably be a good move. You still have Monty there for the atmosphere, etc, but Kevin Young is a very smart up n comer, and we could easily lose him otherwise, and it would be a huge loss.

Plus, I think these younger coaches have more potential at this point than some of the older names mentioned before...I think Taylor Jenkins and Mark Daigneault are two of the best.

The only problem is usually you have a vet coach come in to lead a team to a championship (though Monty may do that this year). Though I guess Nick Nurse did it and Ime Udoka got close. Kerr was a first time coach as well, so I suppose those are most of the last champonships or finals participants outside of Budenholzer and Spoelstra...and whoever was coaching the Lakers when they won.

[bwgood77]

These poll results are pretty shocking:

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[Slim Charless]

These poll results are pretty shocking:

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Yes, and with no hesitation. Pair him and Booker together and if they don't work.....then....trade Booker.


Luka is better-even though I hate the guy.

The return we would've gotten on a Booker deal would give us a great return and stuff to pair with Luka correctly. Also we had his coach, who knows how to use him correctly and maybe could've gotten through to him to play defense and stop whining..

[sunsbg]

I had my doubts from the start Luka and Booker pairing would have worked great. Looking at the Kyrie + Luka experiment have not changed my mind, quite the opposite. Between Irving and Book it's Kyrie who is more willing to accept being second fiddle. Luka'a complete lack of off ball play is a major flow in his game.

[NE1Care]

ROI

In regards to defending or picking on players, I feel we are all here because we love the Suns. I personally love the Suns and I want the best for the team. Comparing players and complaining about one player over another gets a lot of chat here.

For me it comes down to ROI. Sure there are intangibles besides money but it is fare to be harder on one person more than an other. If I am paying someone to do a job and someone is doing a similar job for less money then I will be more critical of the potentially overpaid guy. I will give much, much more leniency to the guy over performing. Hence, why I think Ayton and Paul get a lot of chatter. It is not that they are not good players, but are they worth the money we are paying them. I want them both here and they have both served us well in the past, but talking about today and the future is their ROI positive?

Now look at the investments below and ask yourself if those investment could not be spent better elsewhere? I am not advocating for trading anyone but it is fair to question if someone is earning their money on any given night and I feel this is the place to have those conversations and learn from each other.

KD 44m
DB 33m
DA 30m
CP 28m
LS 9m
Cam 6m
TC 5m
Baz 4m
Biz 2.9m
TJ 2.6m
DL 2m
Oko 1.9m
Jock 1.5m
Ross 916k
Ish 855k
SLee 406k

[MrMiyagi]

I had my doubts from the start Luka and Booker pairing would have worked great. Looking at the Kyrie + Luka experiment have not changed my mind, quite the opposite. Between Irving and Book it's Kyrie who is more willing to accept being second fiddle. Luka'a complete lack of off ball play is a major flow in his game.

Don't forget the Igor factor either. Booker being pushed aside by a rookie coach and player would not have been a pretty sight.